Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. Vol 4
Discussion
El stovey said:
This thread is largely made up of 5 of you arguing ...
Not so; it's you doing the arguing and with only personal attacks and logical fallacies at your disposal it's failing badly as usual. I'm presenting data and evidence where science is concerned and another type of evidence where political activism is concerned.
Get zygalski in for a tag team change, it couldn't possibly get any worse for the faith.
The tag team change arrived and I didn't even need a computer model to predict it.
Back on-topic:
ICECAP
http://icecap.us/
PDF
https://thsresearch.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/ef...
It also says that for each alarmist claim, a summary of the relevant rebuttal is provided along with a link to the full text of the rebuttal which includes the names and the credentials of the authors of each rebuttal, presumably to make it easier for believers not to appeal to them
Back on-topic:
ICECAP said:
Below are a series of rebuttals of typical climate alarmists’ claims such as those made in the recently released Fourth National Climate Assessment Report. The authors of these rebuttals are all recognized experts in the relevant scientific fields. The rebuttals demonstrate the falsity of EPA’s claims merely by citing the most credible empirical data on the topic.
Empirical data alert! Empirical data explodes political activism shocker!ICECAP
http://icecap.us/
https://thsresearch.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/ef...
It also says that for each alarmist claim, a summary of the relevant rebuttal is provided along with a link to the full text of the rebuttal which includes the names and the credentials of the authors of each rebuttal, presumably to make it easier for believers not to appeal to them
turbobloke said:
El stovey said:
turbobloke said:
Yet another institution fails the El s appeal to authority test, due to political activism not institutionalism.
ANOTHER scientific institution taken over by nefarious agents!I said that a small number of activists cause problems for institutions as a result of their politicisation and big mouths, and problems for you in basic comprehension of post content! Not surprising perhaps given your persistent failure to grasp causality, a basic concept.
Do you have anything, anything at all, beyond failed appeals to authority and personal attacks? Please feel free to post up if so.
Why then are you trying to change scientific consensus in a car forum?
The answer can only be that you know your scientific facts don’t stand up in front of other scientists. So instead you’re preaching dogma in here.
Did Copernicus provide evidence that the earth revolves around the sun by proving heliocentric calculations in his local pub? No, he published papers and other scientists read them and agreed with him.
You need to get your facts out there turbobloke, amongst experts, instead of trying to find more activists in institutions that disagree with you. When you do this and change scientific consensus, I’ll be the first to apologise and say I was wrong.
Ali G said:
It's fun too - with so many scientifically illiterate imbeciles on a backwater motor oriented website to poke fun at!
Could only be bettered by infiltrating a Greenpeace field-trip.
Sounds like something Viscount Monckton would enjoy, given his track record of gently wiping noses / bums / the floor with Greenpeas mystical activism.Could only be bettered by infiltrating a Greenpeace field-trip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuj_tlRRQdQ
zygalski said:
Still doesn't answer the question - why haven't the minds at PH managed to expose what they allege must be the single biggest scientific scam in history?
Posting about it in here might earn you brownie points by preaching to the converted, but I'm afraid little else.
That’s a very good question.Posting about it in here might earn you brownie points by preaching to the converted, but I'm afraid little else.
There’s a general scientific consensus. Turbobloke (a scientist) has evidence it’s the biggest scam in history but is just posting in here.
That seems a bit odd really.
The trouble seems to be that the places where they actually need to convince people they're right, in order for change to occur, have all been influenced by political activists.
To some that might sound a bit unlikely but it’s the only way to avoid the fact that you’re in a minority (outside the consensus) and unable to change the consensus, because you’re actually wrong.
turbobloke said:
Ali G said:
It's fun too - with so many scientifically illiterate imbeciles on a backwater motor oriented website to poke fun at!
Could only be bettered by infiltrating a Greenpeace field-trip.
Sounds like something Viscount Monckton would enjoy, given his track record of gently wiping noses / bums / the floor with Greenpeas mystical activism.Could only be bettered by infiltrating a Greenpeace field-trip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuj_tlRRQdQ
Imagine I’m a scientist and I had evidence of the biggest scam in the history of science.
How could I best prove this to the scientific community?
El stovey said:
This thread is largely made up of 5 of you arguing (often conflicting points) against a general scientific consensus.
I’m trying to understand that if you’ve uncovered evidence of the greatest scam in the history of science you’re not doing something to prove it outside a car forum.
you appear to have a reading comprehension problem and also haven't looked at the science behind cagw . three words falsify the premise. tropospheric hot spot. you do know the atmosphere is supposed to warm faster than the surface due to the heat capacity of the oceans ? it is a basic tenet of the hypothesis. outside of "climate science" this one single failing would have been enough to discredit it. it's part of that pesky data nonsense tb has to stress every time an alarmist newcomer dips their toe in the thread. you should read up on it, very interesting topic.I’m trying to understand that if you’ve uncovered evidence of the greatest scam in the history of science you’re not doing something to prove it outside a car forum.
as you are so into authority figures go ask one of them why there is no visible tropospheric hotspot when the hypothesis says there must be. the royal society will give you a reply if you ask. then post it here.
you seem to be awfully vexed that motoring enthusiasts are discussing the political element of this topic in a political discussion section of a motoring enthusiasts forum,why is that ?
wc98 said:
El stovey said:
This thread is largely made up of 5 of you arguing (often conflicting points) against a general scientific consensus.
I’m trying to understand that if you’ve uncovered evidence of the greatest scam in the history of science you’re not doing something to prove it outside a car forum.
you appear to have a reading comprehension problem and also haven't looked at the science behind cagw . three words falsify the premise. tropospheric hot spot. you do know the atmosphere is supposed to warm faster than the surface due to the heat capacity of the oceans ? it is a basic tenet of the hypothesis. outside of "climate science" this one single failing would have been enough to discredit it. it's part of that pesky data nonsense tb has to stress every time an alarmist newcomer dips their toe in the thread. you should read up on it, very interesting topic.I’m trying to understand that if you’ve uncovered evidence of the greatest scam in the history of science you’re not doing something to prove it outside a car forum.
as you are so into authority figures go ask one of them why there is no visible tropospheric hotspot when the hypothesis says there must be. the royal society will give you a reply if you ask. then post it here.
you seem to be awfully vexed that motoring enthusiasts are discussing the political element of this topic in a political discussion section of a motoring enthusiasts forum,why is that ?
PS
El s should also ask about the lack of any visible anthropogenic signal in TOA radiative imbalance (energy) data and the lack of any visible causal human signal in global climate (temperature) data.
turbobloke said:
Do you have anything, anything at all, beyond failed appeals to authority and personal attacks? Please feel free to post up if so.
But you’re the scientist trying to prove a scientific consensus is wrong. You’re aparently sitting on data that proves this. You ought to be up for a Noble Prize.All you’re doing is trying to discredit scientists
Discredit scientific institutions
Present your data on a car forum.
Doesn’t look that effective to me. I doubt you’re going to be recognised for any scientific advances doing that.
turbobloke said:
Protesting too much has rarely been as much as we got today from true belief and it's very likely still a work in progress. Lucky thread!
PS
El s should also ask about the lack of any visible anthropogenic signal in TOA radiative imbalance (energy) data and the lack of any visible causal human signal in global climate (temperature) data.
i wanted to start with the simple one first ,baby steps leading to enlightenment if you will PS
El s should also ask about the lack of any visible anthropogenic signal in TOA radiative imbalance (energy) data and the lack of any visible causal human signal in global climate (temperature) data.
. just read your "the internet is not just for christmas or brexit" line on another thread. thankfully wasn't drinking coffee at the time ! i am sure there are more than a few in the climate debate that wish the internet didn't exist. phil jones being one, mikey mann another 
wc98 said:
you appear to have a reading comprehension problem and also haven't looked at the science behind cagw . three words falsify the premise. tropospheric hot spot. you do know the atmosphere is supposed to warm faster than the surface due to the heat capacity of the oceans ? it is a basic tenet of the hypothesis. outside of "climate science" this one single failing would have been enough to discredit it. it's part of that pesky data nonsense tb has to stress every time an alarmist newcomer dips their toe in the thread. you should read up on it, very interesting topic.
as you are so into authority figures go ask one of them why there is no visible tropospheric hotspot when the hypothesis says there must be. the royal society will give you a reply if you ask. then post it here.
you seem to be awfully vexed that motoring enthusiasts are discussing the political element of this topic in a political discussion section of a motoring enthusiasts forum,why is that ?
I tend to agree that the hypothesis was falsified to a reasonable level of confidence yonks ago (there are even some climate scientists who agree too as you are so into authority figures go ask one of them why there is no visible tropospheric hotspot when the hypothesis says there must be. the royal society will give you a reply if you ask. then post it here.
you seem to be awfully vexed that motoring enthusiasts are discussing the political element of this topic in a political discussion section of a motoring enthusiasts forum,why is that ?
) However with so much political cred to be lost - it ceased to be a viable scientific discipline a very long time ago.Heads down, in the bunkers keep an eye out for incoming airborne faecal matter - I would imagine.
turbobloke said:
El s should also ask about the lack of any visible anthropogenic signal in TOA radiative imbalance (energy) data and the lack of any visible causal human signal in global climate (temperature) data.
You guys can ask when you present your data to some (non infiltrated) scientific body. Why exactly aren’t you doing that?
A noble prize must be better recognition than that of strangers in a car forum?
El stovey said:
You guys can ask when you present your data to some (non infiltrated) scientific body.
Why exactly aren’t you doing that?
A noble prize must be better recognition than that of strangers in a car forum?
i am sure tb has won many noble prizes for his contributions to science over the years. i doubt he would want one of those nobel prizes though, seriously tainted in relation to "science" given some of the bellends they have been awarded to in the recent past (al gore being one, and sex pest pachauri part of the ipcc group).Why exactly aren’t you doing that?
A noble prize must be better recognition than that of strangers in a car forum?
Ali G said:
I tend to agree that the hypothesis was falsified to a reasonable level of confidence yonks ago (there are even some climate scientists who agree too ) However with so much political cred to be lost - it ceased to be a viable scientific discipline a very long time ago.
Heads down, in the bunkers keep an eye out for incoming airborne faecal matter - I would imagine.
spot, way too much money involved now, plus the huge loss of political credibility of swathes of glad handers and rent seekers.) However with so much political cred to be lost - it ceased to be a viable scientific discipline a very long time ago.Heads down, in the bunkers keep an eye out for incoming airborne faecal matter - I would imagine.
El stovey said:
A noble prize must be better recognition than that of strangers in a car forum?
(Cough) Nobel Prize...(Accuracy matters! sorry,.... I'll butt out......
)https://www.nobelprize.org/
FF
wc98 said:
Ali G said:
I tend to agree that the hypothesis was falsified to a reasonable level of confidence yonks ago (there are even some climate scientists who agree too ) However with so much political cred to be lost - it ceased to be a viable scientific discipline a very long time ago.
Heads down, in the bunkers keep an eye out for incoming airborne faecal matter - I would imagine.
spot, way too much money involved now, plus the huge loss of political credibility of swathes of glad handers and rent seekers.) However with so much political cred to be lost - it ceased to be a viable scientific discipline a very long time ago.Heads down, in the bunkers keep an eye out for incoming airborne faecal matter - I would imagine.
Fat Fairy said:
El stovey said:
A noble prize must be better recognition than that of strangers in a car forum?
(Cough) Nobel Prize...(Accuracy matters! sorry,.... I'll butt out......
)https://www.nobelprize.org/
FF
thanks for that.El stovey said:
I’m not sure if you’re joking or not,
well i have to say if someone was involved in a backwater science discipline that suddenly found fame and had them earning multiples of their previous earnings,flying all around the world to conferences, generally in exotic climes,receiving invites to multiple tv stations and hollywood making movies about them,i would find it strange they would happily give all that up without a fight.just in case you think the above has no basis in reality, have a search for jagdish shukla or shukla's gold.
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