How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 10)
Discussion
digimeistter said:
egor110 said:
digimeistter said:
I have yet to hear any positives FOR staying in the EU?
The whole change from within is never going to happen, so come on Remainers, convince us?
Why ?The whole change from within is never going to happen, so come on Remainers, convince us?
There isn’t a 2nd referendum so it makes no difference.
Why do you want to remain? We've had 10+ volumes with numerous reasons to leave and yet still nobody has explained why we should stay. ( apart from the old doom and gloom obviously)
digimeistter said:
egor110 said:
digimeistter said:
I have yet to hear any positives FOR staying in the EU?
The whole change from within is never going to happen, so come on Remainers, convince us?
Why ?The whole change from within is never going to happen, so come on Remainers, convince us?
There isn’t a 2nd referendum so it makes no difference.
Why do you want to remain? We've had 10+ volumes with numerous reasons to leave and yet still nobody has explained why we should stay. ( apart from the old doom and gloom obviously)
To the majority of the population it appears to have few other real benefits.
Robertj21a said:
digimeistter said:
egor110 said:
digimeistter said:
I have yet to hear any positives FOR staying in the EU?
The whole change from within is never going to happen, so come on Remainers, convince us?
Why ?The whole change from within is never going to happen, so come on Remainers, convince us?
There isn’t a 2nd referendum so it makes no difference.
Why do you want to remain? We've had 10+ volumes with numerous reasons to leave and yet still nobody has explained why we should stay. ( apart from the old doom and gloom obviously)
To the majority of the population it appears to have few other real benefits.
)1. We will have influence in regulatory changes by staying in. (for example EASA (soon to be EUASA), medical, nuclear, automotive, environmental, health and safety). Like it or not, most of our industries export to the EU/ US/ Canada etc. and we will soon have no say at all in the regulations we operate and supply against. Sovereignty, my arse.
2. In my industry (aerospace production organisation) costs will increase. DOAs are moving within the EU already. POAs will not be able to supply parts into Europe without significant investment.
3. Freedom of movement means I will no longer be able to retire to somewhere in the EU. Luckily I can chose the colour of my passport though! And I do quite like living in the UK anyway!
4. Being part of a larger trading block gives economies of scale. If Trump choses to impose tariffs on the EU and the \|UK, we stand a faar greater chance of negotiation being part of the EU. (Yeah I know we are the fifth largest economy, but use some rationale)
5. Getting skilled labour in our industry means searching far and wide. Limit the talent pool means limited talent. Q. If Man City could only buy players from the City of Manchester would they be so successful??? (I know when we leave we will suddenly be open to the RoW - but does leaving the EU really stop us recruiting from India, for example?)
Any reasons for leaving, seem irrelevant to me whether it be trading with RoW (really), Sovereignty, Immigration or EU politicians (the UK ones are hardly shining examples
) The fallacy of the EU being undemocratic does not hold water with me either - what's happening tomorrow? Unfortunately the UK voice in the EU parliament was primarily from some lovely people under the banner of UKIP. Were they really the makers and shakers to change and reform the EU, whilst representing the UK's best interests? Fecking useless and undermining our representation within the EU.
I wait to have this torn apart - but these are my opinions and they won't be shaken.
You did ask the question - so you only have yourselves to blame for my response
Mike
digimeistter said:
They've gone very quiet, maybe they realise?
It is a question that can't be answered as there is nothing good about the EU that actually requires a political union, they also struggle with what does remain mean? is it more of the same? closer integration? a completely reformed EU that nobody knows what it will look like? what other countries will join in the next couple of generations and how much of a strain on our resources will it be.NoNeed said:
digimeistter said:
They've gone very quiet, maybe they realise?
It is a question that can't be answered as there is nothing good about the EU that actually requires a political union, they also struggle with what does remain mean? is it more of the same? closer integration? a completely reformed EU that nobody knows what it will look like? what other countries will join in the next couple of generations and how much of a strain on our resources will it be.mike9009 said:
NoNeed said:
digimeistter said:
They've gone very quiet, maybe they realise?
It is a question that can't be answered as there is nothing good about the EU that actually requires a political union, they also struggle with what does remain mean? is it more of the same? closer integration? a completely reformed EU that nobody knows what it will look like? what other countries will join in the next couple of generations and how much of a strain on our resources will it be.TeamD said:
mike9009 said:
NoNeed said:
digimeistter said:
They've gone very quiet, maybe they realise?
It is a question that can't be answered as there is nothing good about the EU that actually requires a political union, they also struggle with what does remain mean? is it more of the same? closer integration? a completely reformed EU that nobody knows what it will look like? what other countries will join in the next couple of generations and how much of a strain on our resources will it be.
mike9009 said:
TeamD said:
mike9009 said:
NoNeed said:
digimeistter said:
They've gone very quiet, maybe they realise?
It is a question that can't be answered as there is nothing good about the EU that actually requires a political union, they also struggle with what does remain mean? is it more of the same? closer integration? a completely reformed EU that nobody knows what it will look like? what other countries will join in the next couple of generations and how much of a strain on our resources will it be.ELUSIVEJIM said:
...
Guy Verhofstadt has told The Times the rise of populism and the far-right could bring down the Union by 2024 if they cannot be replaced by a 'new vision of the EU'.
If Guy Verhofstadt had a new vision of the EU, it might be popular too.Guy Verhofstadt has told The Times the rise of populism and the far-right could bring down the Union by 2024 if they cannot be replaced by a 'new vision of the EU'.
Everything that is wrong with the EU.
Elysium said:
I entirely agree, but that in a nutshell is why short term transitional arrangements are not enough.
We might be on WTO terms alone for 10 years and we need to know that the wheels will keep turning in that time. Not just for the first six months.
We might. We might not. If a mutually beneficial arrangement can be done sooner, we won't. If not, we will.We might be on WTO terms alone for 10 years and we need to know that the wheels will keep turning in that time. Not just for the first six months.
It is very clear that starting by being inside the tent, using the method our ex-PM tried with her EU advisor, it is not possible to achieve that mutually beneficial point. So a different method must be tried. One where, perhaps, the counterpart knows you are leaving.
The arrangements tabled by the EU are a *start*. They keep the wheels they want to remain turning for a defined period. I'm sure there may be other wheels we would appreciate are kept turning too. Talk through them. And next, set to sorting more permanent arrangements out on those items that take us beyond the initial period. Baby steps.
johnxjsc1985 said:
Sway said:
I think this must gain a record for number of strawmen to number of words ratio.
I wonder if he realises that approx. 90 Labour MP's are in leave voting constituencies. Whilst this is largely a situation made worse by a pathetic PM Labour have to read carefully.TeamD said:
Le Controleur Horizontal said:
TeamD said:
Would this be the fourth reich then?
More "The New Soviet"I really hope we can move past this nightmare, TM has to be gone in a week and perhaps a new plan for Brexit can form.
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