How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 11)

[hutchst]

alfie2244 said:

CFP did not exist until Britain joined the EU............but you are right, industries of national importance to other member states France wine, German cars etc have never been willingly reduced by their own politicians....... clear other member states do all they can to protect important sections of their own economy and heritage, while British politicians willingly gave ours away.

The CFP was a major disaster for our fleets IIRC but it won't be long before we get away from UK policies emanating from the unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.

It wasn't given away, it was taken away by the ECJ.

[anonymous-user]

jsf said:

Nickgnome said:

There are still a few pubs in the valleys where it would be very inadvisable to state what you’ve just said.

I thought you said there was no ‘yours’ and you spent your life as a singleton. Was I mistaken?

I was referring to his "yours"

And why do you think a single bloke doesnt have other important people and family in their lives?

There's a difference between important people and dependants.

[anonymous-user]

amusingduck said:

Brooking10 said:

For clarity I am very sanguine about the fact that your response to the chap who thinks he’s going to lose his job is that of a massive prick.

sanguine: optimistic or positive, especially in an apparently bad or difficult situation.

I don't get it.

I am comfortable and confident in the assertion, it did not come from a place of emotion.

[anonymous-user]

Brooking10 said:

There's a difference between important people and dependants.

You dont need to have had your own kids to have dependants.

Not that this has anything to do with my circumstances.

[s2art]

hutchst said:

alfie2244 said:

CFP did not exist until Britain joined the EU............but you are right, industries of national importance to other member states France wine, German cars etc have never been willingly reduced by their own politicians....... clear other member states do all they can to protect important sections of their own economy and heritage, while British politicians willingly gave ours away.

The CFP was a major disaster for our fleets IIRC but it won't be long before we get away from UK policies emanating from the unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.

It wasn't given away, it was taken away by the ECJ.

Pretty sure Heath gave it away during the negotiations for joining the EEC.

[Nickgnome]

jsf said:

Nickgnome said:

There are still a few pubs in the valleys where it would be very inadvisable to state what you’ve just said.

I thought you said there was no ‘yours’ and you spent your life as a singleton. Was I mistaken?

I was referring to his "yours"

And why do you think a single bloke doesnt have other important people and family in their lives?

Being single does allow you greater flexibility to be fleet of foot in the job market. Try moving house when you have a couple of children settled in a great school then trying to find an equivalent elsewhere without disrupting their education too much. I’m sorry it’s a whole different ball game than when you are single.

[alfie2244]

hutchst said:

alfie2244 said:

CFP did not exist until Britain joined the EU............but you are right, industries of national importance to other member states France wine, German cars etc have never been willingly reduced by their own politicians....... clear other member states do all they can to protect important sections of their own economy and heritage, while British politicians willingly gave ours away.

The CFP was a major disaster for our fleets IIRC but it won't be long before we get away from UK policies emanating from the unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.

It wasn't given away, it was taken away by the ECJ.

Long time since I looked at this but I don't remember us actually being forced to give up our waters by the EU....we volunteered it IIRC.....didn't we heavily rely on Arctic waters at the time and inshore less so?

I do remember buying a very cheap small trawler (scrapped) because the fisherman had been given compo and it couldn't be used commercially again........

[anonymous-user]

Nickgnome said:

Being single does allow you greater flexibility to be fleet of foot in the job market. Try moving house when you have a couple of children settled in a great school then trying to find an equivalent elsewhere without disrupting their education too much. I’m sorry it’s a whole different ball game then when you are single.

So what.

It doesn't change the reality, that when circumstances change, you have to adapt.

Very few people get to live a work life without disruption and change, that is now the new normal, in the EU or out the EU.

Being single also brings pressures most couples don't have. There is no second income to fall back on and no second income to cope with the costs of living now, often requiring 2 incomes to make ends meet.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 19th August 21:08

[Nickgnome]

s2art said:

hutchst said:

alfie2244 said:

CFP did not exist until Britain joined the EU............but you are right, industries of national importance to other member states France wine, German cars etc have never been willingly reduced by their own politicians....... clear other member states do all they can to protect important sections of their own economy and heritage, while British politicians willingly gave ours away.

The CFP was a major disaster for our fleets IIRC but it won't be long before we get away from UK policies emanating from the unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.

It wasn't given away, it was taken away by the ECJ.

Pretty sure Heath gave it away during the negotiations for joining the EEC.

It was about that time that the CFP was formed. I think Starsky may be referencing the 2014 report.

[alfie2244]

Nickgnome said:

s2art said:

hutchst said:

alfie2244 said:

CFP did not exist until Britain joined the EU............but you are right, industries of national importance to other member states France wine, German cars etc have never been willingly reduced by their own politicians....... clear other member states do all they can to protect important sections of their own economy and heritage, while British politicians willingly gave ours away.

The CFP was a major disaster for our fleets IIRC but it won't be long before we get away from UK policies emanating from the unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.

It wasn't given away, it was taken away by the ECJ.

Pretty sure Heath gave it away during the negotiations for joining the EEC.

It was about that time that the CFP was formed. I think Starsky may be referencing the 2014 report.

I could be wrong but they only introduced it because we had joined and we had more than 50% of the "EU's" waters....or something like that anyway....at that time we only had coal and fishing...now look

[hutchst]

alfie2244 said:

Long time since I looked at this but I don't remember us actually being forced to give up our waters by the EU....we volunteered it IIRC.....didn't we heavily rely on Arctic waters at the time and inshore less so?

I do remember buying a very cheap small trawler (scrapped) because the fisherman had been given compo and it couldn't be used commercially again........

Read the Factortame cases. All of them, in the UK and the European courts.

In a nutshell Westminster passed a law that permitted only UK fishing boats to catch that part of the total fishing quota allocated to the UK. The ECJ struck down that legislation and permitted Spanish boats to sail from Spain, catch the UK quota in British waters and take it straight back land it in Spanish ports without touching the UK. Around 1987 - 91 so at least 15 years after we joined.

[Nickgnome]

jsf said:

Nickgnome said:

Being single does allow you greater flexibility to be fleet of foot in the job market. Try moving house when you have a couple of children settled in a great school then trying to find an equivalent elsewhere without disrupting their education too much. I’m sorry it’s a whole different ball game then when you are single.

So what.

It doesn't change the reality, that when circumstances change, you have to adapt.

Very few people get to live a work life without disruption and change, that is now the new normal, in the EU or out the EU.

Being single also brings pressures most couples don't have. There is no second income to fall back on and no second income to cope with the costs of living now, often requiring 2 incomes to make ends meet.

Edited by jsf on Monday 19th August 21:08

I’ve lived in both situations so I can categorically state being single is much easier. I would say there is little pressure in the single situation. If necessary or by choice additional working can be undertaken. You have indicted that you travel abroad for work which maybe ok for some families but would give substantial challenges where both adults work and need child care etc.

It may be that you will never be in the situation experience the pressures firsthand that couples with children have to cope with. Having been in both camps in my opinion having children and watching them grow to adults and in my case be a Grandad cannot be beaten.

[Nickgnome]

hutchst said:

alfie2244 said:

Long time since I looked at this but I don't remember us actually being forced to give up our waters by the EU....we volunteered it IIRC.....didn't we heavily rely on Arctic waters at the time and inshore less so?

I do remember buying a very cheap small trawler (scrapped) because the fisherman had been given compo and it couldn't be used commercially again........

Read the Factortame cases. All of them, in the UK and the European courts.

In a nutshell Westminster passed a law that permitted only UK fishing boats to catch that part of the total fishing quota allocated to the UK. The ECJ struck down that legislation and permitted Spanish boats to sail from Spain, catch the UK quota in British waters and take it straight back land it in Spanish ports without touching the UK. Around 1987 - 91 so at least 15 years after we joined.

Are you stating that UK fishermen sold their (UK) quota to the Spanish?

[alfie2244]

hutchst said:

alfie2244 said:

Long time since I looked at this but I don't remember us actually being forced to give up our waters by the EU....we volunteered it IIRC.....didn't we heavily rely on Arctic waters at the time and inshore less so?

I do remember buying a very cheap small trawler (scrapped) because the fisherman had been given compo and it couldn't be used commercially again........

Read the Factortame cases. All of them, in the UK and the European courts.

In a nutshell Westminster passed a law that permitted only UK fishing boats to catch that part of the total fishing quota allocated to the UK. The ECJ struck down that legislation and permitted Spanish boats to sail from Spain, catch the UK quota in British waters and take it straight back land it in Spanish ports without touching the UK. Around 1987 - 91 so at least 15 years after we joined.

Factortame.......now that rings a bell...thanks

[anonymous-user]

jsf said:

Being single also brings pressures most couples don't have. There is no second income to fall back on and no second income to cope with the costs of living now, often requiring 2 incomes to make ends meet.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 19th August 21:08

My dear Sir, a gentleman doesn't send his lady wife out to work......

[anonymous-user]

Nickgnome said:

I’ve lived in both situations so I can categorically state being single is much easier. I would say there is little pressure in the single situation. If necessary or by choice additional working can be undertaken. You have indicted that you travel abroad for work which maybe ok for some families but would give substantial challenges where both adults work and need child care etc.

It may be that you will never be in the situation experience the pressures firsthand that couples with children have to cope with. Having been in both camps in my opinion having children and watching them grow to adults and in my case be a Grandad cannot be beaten.

All the blokes i work with are in couples, most have kids. They work away from home with me.

Last year i was off work for 6 months with an injury that left me pretty immobile, no second income to help and just SSP to pay the bills. Being single male in those circumstances is not easy.

We all have to deal with difficult times at times in our lives, stop whining and get on with sorting your problems is the only way forward.

The way you post you'd think unless you live a certain life you can't appreciate what that entails. It's such an absurd suggestion.

[Nickgnome]

alfie2244 said:

hutchst said:

alfie2244 said:

Long time since I looked at this but I don't remember us actually being forced to give up our waters by the EU....we volunteered it IIRC.....didn't we heavily rely on Arctic waters at the time and inshore less so?

I do remember buying a very cheap small trawler (scrapped) because the fisherman had been given compo and it couldn't be used commercially again........

Read the Factortame cases. All of them, in the UK and the European courts.

In a nutshell Westminster passed a law that permitted only UK fishing boats to catch that part of the total fishing quota allocated to the UK. The ECJ struck down that legislation and permitted Spanish boats to sail from Spain, catch the UK quota in British waters and take it straight back land it in Spanish ports without touching the UK. Around 1987 - 91 so at least 15 years after we joined.

Factortame.......now that rings a bell...thanks

I’ve just read up on it. At best he is being disingenuous. Spanish companies buy British registered vessels, which is equivalent to buying a British company and the the British government try to legislate away their trade.

Hardly surprising the ECJ Ruled against the UK. We were lucky it wasn’t the yanks suing us.

[anonymous-user]

Brooking10 said:

My dear Sir, a gentleman doesn't send his lady wife out to work......

[Nickgnome]

jsf said:

All the blokes i work with are in couples, most have kids. They work away from home with me.

Last year i was off work for 6 months with an injury that left me pretty immobile, no second income to help and just SSP to pay the bills. Being single male in those circumstances is not easy.

We all have to deal with difficult times at times in our lives, stop whining and get on with sorting your problems is the only way forward.

The way you post you'd think unless you live a certain life you can't appreciate what that entails. It's such an absurd suggestion.

Surely as a successful single guy, team manager or some such thing you would have put in place insurance against inability to work, assuming your company did not provide it.

Well you can appreciate all you want but it seems you will never know.

[DeepEnd]

skahigh said:

Boris has written to Donald

Link

Worth a read.

He sort of turns the backstop around and implies it is actually threatening the GFA. That could go down badly.

He doesn’t really give a solution which is a bit concerning, just talks towards the end about “alternative arrangements” - almost as vague as “technology”.

He is basically trying to turn it into a “as far a possible” promise that the UK can unilaterally break.

It’ll be interesting to see how the EU react and how long they take.