Politics in France

[frankenstein12]

Whatever the case my view is that France and the entire EU are screwed by this result.

Micron is a fully subscribed member of the EU ideology and is anti brexit in strictest terms and is going to push for the EU to punish the UK in negotiations.

This in turn will lead to all EU countries seeing a drop in exports and economic trouble.

The EU had a chance to walk away from British membership on friendly amicable terms but instead have chosen to pick a fight they will lose badly. Legally they cannot force the UK to pay them a penny of their €50-100 billion demand. Likewise they were advised doing so could result in the UK demanding its share of the value of EU assets which will outstrip the EU demand for €50-100 billion.

They are regardless going to be facing a funding shortfall once we separate which will have to be picked up by the remaining 72 who are mostly struggling financially.

If the UK really want to push the boat out in response we could also restrict or stop sharing information from our intelligence services.
We could impose heavy taxes on key imports from EU states such as cars which would severely hamper their manufacturing base and threaten many jobs.

Sure tit for tat the UK will suffer but the EU project will suffer much much more and would break up rather swiftly due to the discord being caused by the UKs actions.

[Murph7355]

///ajd said:

They won't get a referendum, just as we'll never have a UKIP government. No one will drop the same clanger as Cameron.

If the EU is such a bona-fide "good thing", that it is hard to argue hasn't delivered significant tangible benefit to Europe, why worry?

They should make treaty signing dependent on referenda in each member state. Such a nailed on positive to all our lives would sail through

[jjlynn27]

frankenstein12 said:

Whatever the case my view is that France and the entire EU are screwed by this result.

Micron is a fully subscribed member of the EU ideology and is anti brexit in strictest terms and is going to push for the EU to punish the UK in negotiations.

This in turn will lead to all EU countries seeing a drop in exports economic trouble.

The EU had a chance to walk away from British membership on friendly amicable terms but instead have chosen to pick a fight they will lose badly. Legally they cannot force the UK to pay them a penny of their €50-100 billion demand. Likewise they were advised doing so could result in the UK demanding its share of the value of EU assets which will outstrip the EU demand for €50-100 billion.

They are regardless going to be facing a funding shortfall once we separate which will have to be picked up by the remaining 72 who are mostly struggling financially.

If the UK really want to push the boat out in response we could also restrict or stop sharing information from our intelligence services.
We could impose heavy taxes on key imports from EU states such as cars which would severely hamper their manufacturing base and threaten many jobs.

Sure tit for tat the UK will suffer but the EU project will suffer much much more and would break up rather swiftly due to the discord being caused by the UKs actions.

There is so much stupid in that post that one wouldn't even know where to start.

[turbobloke]

///ajd said:

They won't get a referendum...

Why not? Surely remaining in the well-run munificent EU is such a clear-cut win with so many benefits for voters in each prisoner nation that they'll voluntarily remain in their cells such that even opening the gates wide would have no effect at all.

On the other hand, the above post suggests there's a high risk of a mass escape given half a chance. Remaining in the EU...so good it hurts.

Cameron's clanger ho ho ho.

[anonymous-user]

///ajd said:

paulrockliffe said:

Eddie Strohacker said:

The trend I see is the FN trying & failing to win power in fifty years & smart cookie Macron doing it in one. Snapshot that for the domino effect.

This is just bks dressed up as a pretty picture. Give those countries a referendum rather than a proxy vote on the EU and we'll get a true picture.

Again, our last election in 2015 was a majority for a pro-EU Government, nothing changed in the following 12 months. How do you explain that without breaking your equivalence narrative?

They won't get a referendum, just as we'll never have a UKIP government. No one will drop the same clanger as Cameron.

Italy will if they vote in a coalition of euro sceptics, which looks likely, and then the game is up.

[Trabi601]

Countdown said:

How dare those liberal elites out-vote the racist dinosaurs.

[djc206]

turbobloke said:

jjlynn27 said:

Digga said:

More of that poisonous and divisive drivel from the FT. It's risible - the correlation does not indicate causation. Education does not necessarily equate to intelligence. Quite possible that the areas with better education prospects were also those who felt less disenfranchised. etc. etc.

Peddling the idea that all people who vote "X" is as dumb as it is dangerous.

You keep repeating that on different threads. I don't think that anyone said that education equals to intelligence. There is, however, a strong correlation between education levels and intelligence. Why would you think that it's 'poisonous and divisive drivel' from FT. It's data. Same for the Brexit vote, it's just data. Should they hide statistics just in case some people get offended?

Not at all. They could nevertheless point out that correlation isn't causation, that was the point being made.

They might also point out that neither intelligence nor education confer wisdom.

Why do they not do that - might some people spot the truth in play at that point, being not quite as educated or as clever as they had thouight - and be offended that their bubble just burst?

Would you have objected to the presentation of this data and the publishing of Lord Ashcrofts admittedly small sample exit poll data had it painted Le Pen or Leave voters as the more educated? I doubt it, it would have been held aloft on here by many. Suck it up it is what it is. It doesn't mean all voters of either persuasion are stupid, it doesn't equate education and intelligence, you made that inference yourself.

Why would they point out those things? An intelligent person would surely know them to be true anyway.

[loafer123]

Is that surprising? I had a house in France for years and several farmer friends on borderline income who had second jobs to get by.

Poorly educated people are feeling their minimum wage jobs are under threat from unrestricted migration and that is completely understandable.

That being said, I don't get the hatred for the EU. I am glad we are out of it, and whatever they want to do now we have left is entirely up to them.

PS I have a degree and am a Chartered something. Sorry for breaking your prejudice.

[frankenstein12]

loafer123 said:

Is that surprising? I had a house in France for years and several farmer friends on borderline income who had second jobs to get by.

Poorly educated people are feeling their minimum wage jobs are under threat from unrestricted migration and that is completely understandable.

That being said, I don't get the hatred for the EU. I am glad we are out of it, and whatever they want to do now we have left is entirely up to them.

PS I have a degree and am a Chartered something. Sorry for breaking your prejudice.

I don't know if there is a hatred so much as a dislike of and for what the EU stands for.

I have no major issue with the EU however I deeply dislike its lack of democracy and its lack of introspection.

The EU is incapable of positive change as it is unwilling to consider or recognise errors within itself and to evolve instead choosing to simply attempt to fix any issues through more integration and rules.

Its a bit like Jason Statham in Spy. Thinks very highly of itself. Keeps screwing things up and blaming others and suggesting the solution is to let them handle absolutely everything only its not as funny as the movie.

[don'tbesilly]

Eddie Strohacker said:

turbobloke said:

Eddie Strohacker said:

turbobloke said:

Checkmate.

Pahahah! I honestly think you believe that

In case you hadn't noticed, the French held a referendum yesterday. The Dutch, the Austrians but of course, you know that already.

Based on what was said, yes it's correct.

In TB world yes. In the real one, no. "Nothing changed in the following twelve months". Not true, we had Dave's wildly successful special deal, the bus, oh my lordy the bus & everything else preceding it that I explicitly wrote out for you that surprise, surprise, you chose to ignore.

No matter though - France - freshly minted centrist government. Austria - freshly minted centrist government. Netherlands - freshly minted centrist government. I'll take that thanks.


Democracy is a beautiful thing.

I couldn't agree more.

It was beautiful on the morning of the 24th June 2016, I rather suspect you weren't quite so chipper then, and democracy for you was anything other than beautiful.

It was beautiful once more on the 29th March 2017, again I rather suspect that democracy when it doesn't suit you is far from beautiful despite your claim above.

[voyds9]

Eddie Strohacker said:

Actually, I'm being assailed on all sides by sore right wingers on what was once a thread about the French election but has like everything here, degenerated into an anti EU/Brexit palava for the crime of being in favour of the winner. You're just the latest in a long, long line.

For the record, the French were offered a choice between a candidate offering Frexit & one offering more EU. One could conceivably look upon that as a referendum on continued French membership of the bloc. I choose to, you don't. Fair fks.

They made a resounding choice & here we are again with the right wing throwing it all at me because their pin up lost.

That's pretty much what this is I chinny reckon.

Centre-left wins you are assaulted by words

In America centre right wins, the country is on fire.

Don't you just love the peaceful inclusive left

[djc206]

don'tbesilly said:

I couldn't agree more.

It was beautiful on the morning of the 24th June 2016, I rather suspect you weren't quite so chipper then, and democracy for you was anything other than beautiful.

It was beautiful once more on the 29th March 2017, again I rather suspect that democracy when it doesn't suit you is far from beautiful despite your claim above.

The earliest democracy at Athens experienced the true ugliness of democracy or more accurately demagogy in 427BC with the Mytilenian Revolt and subsequent debate. The similarities between Cleon and Farage are, to me at least, beautiful.

[Countdown]

loafer123 said:

Is that surprising? I had a house in France for years and several farmer friends on borderline income who had second jobs to get by.

Poorly educated people are feeling their minimum wage jobs are under threat from unrestricted migration and that is completely understandable.

I though the French farmers were one of the biggest beneficiaries of EU subsidies, via the CAP?

[JawKnee]

jsf said:

///ajd said:

paulrockliffe said:

Eddie Strohacker said:

The trend I see is the FN trying & failing to win power in fifty years & smart cookie Macron doing it in one. Snapshot that for the domino effect.

This is just bks dressed up as a pretty picture. Give those countries a referendum rather than a proxy vote on the EU and we'll get a true picture.

Again, our last election in 2015 was a majority for a pro-EU Government, nothing changed in the following 12 months. How do you explain that without breaking your equivalence narrative?

They won't get a referendum, just as we'll never have a UKIP government. No one will drop the same clanger as Cameron.

Italy will if they vote in a coalition of euro sceptics, which looks likely, and then the game is up.

Wont happen.

[Eddie Strohacker]

voyds9 said:

Centre-left wins you are assaulted by words

In America centre right wins, the country is on fire.

Don't you just love the peaceful inclusive left

I don't know, do you? I'm not one of them.

[anonymous-user]

JawKnee said:

jsf said:

///ajd said:

paulrockliffe said:

Eddie Strohacker said:

The trend I see is the FN trying & failing to win power in fifty years & smart cookie Macron doing it in one. Snapshot that for the domino effect.

This is just bks dressed up as a pretty picture. Give those countries a referendum rather than a proxy vote on the EU and we'll get a true picture.

Again, our last election in 2015 was a majority for a pro-EU Government, nothing changed in the following 12 months. How do you explain that without breaking your equivalence narrative?

They won't get a referendum, just as we'll never have a UKIP government. No one will drop the same clanger as Cameron.

Italy will if they vote in a coalition of euro sceptics, which looks likely, and then the game is up.

Wont happen.

That's me convinced.

[Eddie Strohacker]

don'tbesilly said:

I couldn't agree more.

It was beautiful on the morning of the 24th June 2016, I rather suspect you weren't quite so chipper then, and democracy for you was anything other than beautiful.

It was beautiful once more on the 29th March 2017, again I rather suspect that democracy when it doesn't suit you is far from beautiful despite your claim above.

I think you fundamentally misunderstand the nature of democracy. I'm intrigued as to why you think if an election doesn't go my way, I should pipe down? Taking your logic to it's conclusion, there should be no opposition in parliament because they lost the election? What a strange way to think. Do you not believe in debate? Is it a glimpse of your true colours?

And why do you lob one of these in every reply? It makes me think you're Doctor Hibbert or something.

[loafer123]

Countdown said:

loafer123 said:

Is that surprising? I had a house in France for years and several farmer friends on borderline income who had second jobs to get by.

Poorly educated people are feeling their minimum wage jobs are under threat from unrestricted migration and that is completely understandable.

I though the French farmers were one of the biggest beneficiaries of EU subsidies, via the CAP?

Not if you have subsistence amounts of land and have to drive a school bus/be a mechanic to make ends meet.

[BlackLabel]

It's interesting how much tv coverage Macron is receiving over here - can't remember it being like this when Hollande or Sarkozy won. It's almost 2008 Obama esq.

[del mar]

Trabi601 said:

Countdown said:

How dare those liberal elites out-vote the racist dinosaurs.

I am not sure what value this has in this day and age - granted the graph doesn't show ages.

Who would you rather have making decisions a 50 year old who has lived / seen how the world works / made mistakes or a 25 year old with a degree in African studies who has come from a very left wing university system and never paid tax ?

I think you do a disservice to people who don't have degrees.

My degree in david beckham studies must mean that I am some genius who always gets things right and am far far cleverer than the majority of the population. !