The death of the high street.
Discussion
Bullett said:
I do shop around on the internet, I can't think of the specific product right now but a couple of times I've found what I wanted and the price was the same across amazon/ebay and the actual retailer.
However, the direct sale sometimes wanted delivery on top of the price which the other two didn't.
Even when the direct price included delivery I went with Amazon as I would rather deal with their customer service/guarantees and not have my CC out with another Joe Bloggs.
Had the same when I bought a Panda Life mattress topper last year. Same price on their site as Amazon but they wanted to charge me delivery ordering from them. Spoke to them on live chat and said I was ready to buy, basically giving them the opportunity to do a deal so that they didn't have to pay Amazon's fees but they weren't interested and just told me to buy it from Amazon!However, the direct sale sometimes wanted delivery on top of the price which the other two didn't.
Even when the direct price included delivery I went with Amazon as I would rather deal with their customer service/guarantees and not have my CC out with another Joe Bloggs.
I can see large brands opening 'solus' show rooms where you go view their product and order there or on online. It may lead to a price floor too as they get to control their product price as they become more vertically integrated. By that I mean, why can't, for example, Miele build and sell their own stuff?
I believe it will change. Those businesses you mention are being shortsighted.
When you get a sale on amazon or eBay you are borrowing one of THEIR customers.
When you convert one to your own website you are TAKING one of their customers.
As PayPal and other merchants step up their measures to facilitate one click purchasing on vendor websites, and they themselves offer guarantees of service, I’m hoping that customers begin to realise there are real savings outside the marketplaces.
Part of the problem at the moment for smaller business is that transactionally they are not ready to do business easily outside their specialism which so much has been marketplace driven. For many of them getting address data and actually completing the fiscal transaction is too much work vs the saving. Understandable for one transaction. But we are seeing record levels of customers returning to our website once they realise we are so much cheaper.
Sure, with amazon and eBay you can, as a consumer, truly take the p1ss out of the seller in any way you want. With a reputable website you have to be at least half reasonable in your attitude and demands but assuming you’re a reasonable client (and most are - 80/20 rule very much applies) - then as we move forwards I definitely thing we should see a move towards the internet.
I also notice google taking a large interest investing huge amounts of time into their shopping feeds. Not working very well yet but one of my guys has been literally hounded by swarms of googlets trying to help him get our shopping feed working as it should. This, vs no interest from them before at all.
On a personal level I noticed a good one the other day. Bought a couple of Lexmark printers. Checked eBay and amazon - called the vendor directly and they were offering £60 per unit cashback and a £50 amazon voucher per unit as an incentive to not use the marketplaces.
On another subject - I’ve mentioned it before but the high street won’t die in my opinion. For less expensive items the carriage charge will always be disproportionately high as a percentage of the sale. Our own retail store has an average sale of £15 in store but £55 online. We have put a very great deal of emphasis on service in store, and worked to put in lines where other similar retaillers pull their face about the investment and offer to “order it in” for the client. The result is that the store is beginning to do better again, after a number of down years. I’m quite happy with that.
When you get a sale on amazon or eBay you are borrowing one of THEIR customers.
When you convert one to your own website you are TAKING one of their customers.
As PayPal and other merchants step up their measures to facilitate one click purchasing on vendor websites, and they themselves offer guarantees of service, I’m hoping that customers begin to realise there are real savings outside the marketplaces.
Part of the problem at the moment for smaller business is that transactionally they are not ready to do business easily outside their specialism which so much has been marketplace driven. For many of them getting address data and actually completing the fiscal transaction is too much work vs the saving. Understandable for one transaction. But we are seeing record levels of customers returning to our website once they realise we are so much cheaper.
Sure, with amazon and eBay you can, as a consumer, truly take the p1ss out of the seller in any way you want. With a reputable website you have to be at least half reasonable in your attitude and demands but assuming you’re a reasonable client (and most are - 80/20 rule very much applies) - then as we move forwards I definitely thing we should see a move towards the internet.
I also notice google taking a large interest investing huge amounts of time into their shopping feeds. Not working very well yet but one of my guys has been literally hounded by swarms of googlets trying to help him get our shopping feed working as it should. This, vs no interest from them before at all.
On a personal level I noticed a good one the other day. Bought a couple of Lexmark printers. Checked eBay and amazon - called the vendor directly and they were offering £60 per unit cashback and a £50 amazon voucher per unit as an incentive to not use the marketplaces.
On another subject - I’ve mentioned it before but the high street won’t die in my opinion. For less expensive items the carriage charge will always be disproportionately high as a percentage of the sale. Our own retail store has an average sale of £15 in store but £55 online. We have put a very great deal of emphasis on service in store, and worked to put in lines where other similar retaillers pull their face about the investment and offer to “order it in” for the client. The result is that the store is beginning to do better again, after a number of down years. I’m quite happy with that.
kurt535 said:
I can see large brands opening 'solus' show rooms where you go view their product and order there or on online. It may lead to a price floor too as they get to control their product price as they become more vertically integrated. By that I mean, why can't, for example, Miele build and sell their own stuff?
I guess Apple would be an example of that. But you need their sort of scale.It was supposed to happen with cars - with more Mercedes Worlds - but it proved far too expensive.
Julian Thompson said:
On another subject - I’ve mentioned it before but the high street won’t die in my opinion. For less expensive items the carriage charge will always be disproportionately high as a percentage of the sale.
The shipping cost is only a very small part of the overall 'package' though. You forgot to mention the 2 hr round trip to your High Street store via the LAs obstacle course road network deliberately designed to ensure you don't average any more than 2 mph for the entire journey, then the £3 to park, the walk to the store, the high risk of "sorry it's not in stock, but we can order it in for you to collect tomorrow?" and then a reverse of the above to get back home again where it's cost you probably the best part of tenner when you include fuel, wear & tear as well, all for nothing.If you had the item in store for £15 (in a city centre location, not in an easily accessible free-to-park out of town retail park) and online for £25 including delivery I can fairly confidently say that I would I buy it online purely for the convenience and avoidance of all the aforementioned hassle.
We are well beyond talking about the High Street dying in future tense. It is already dead and has been for some years.
Julian Thompson said:
I believe it will change. Those businesses you mention are being shortsighted.
When you get a sale on amazon or eBay you are borrowing one of THEIR customers.
When you convert one to your own website you are TAKING one of their customers.
Amazon knows what your selling, it knows how well it is selling. When you get a sale on amazon or eBay you are borrowing one of THEIR customers.
When you convert one to your own website you are TAKING one of their customers.
If there is profit in it, they can easily sell same under one of their growing own brands.
https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-owns-these-...
Biker 1 said:
soxboy said:
Needed some handlebar grips for my son's bike. Automatically went on Amazon as first port of call, £9.99 plus delivery. Went on Halfords, exactly same for £5.99 and available in store immediately. Pleasantly surprised.
Ah yes, but then you need to drive to the store, find a parking space, use petrol, & take maybe 30 minutes + of your day to complete all this. I would suggest that the £4 extra for Amazon is well worth it, however, it then depends on the courier. My experience with local Hermes driver is excellent, but Yodel on the other had - what an absolute shower of s
t....Lemming Train said:
Julian Thompson said:
On another subject - I’ve mentioned it before but the high street won’t die in my opinion. For less expensive items the carriage charge will always be disproportionately high as a percentage of the sale.
The shipping cost is only a very small part of the overall 'package' though. You forgot to mention the 2 hr round trip to your High Street store via the LAs obstacle course road network deliberately designed to ensure you don't average any more than 2 mph for the entire journey, then the £3 to park, the walk to the store, the high risk of "sorry it's not in stock, but we can order it in for you to collect tomorrow?" and then a reverse of the above to get back home again where it's cost you probably the best part of tenner when you include fuel, wear & tear as well, all for nothing.If you had the item in store for £15 (in a city centre location, not in an easily accessible free-to-park out of town retail park) and online for £25 including delivery I can fairly confidently say that I would I buy it online purely for the convenience and avoidance of all the aforementioned hassle.
We are well beyond talking about the High Street dying in future tense. It is already dead and has been for some years.
Julian Thompson said:
Lemming Train said:
Julian Thompson said:
On another subject - I’ve mentioned it before but the high street won’t die in my opinion. For less expensive items the carriage charge will always be disproportionately high as a percentage of the sale.
The shipping cost is only a very small part of the overall 'package' though. You forgot to mention the 2 hr round trip to your High Street store via the LAs obstacle course road network deliberately designed to ensure you don't average any more than 2 mph for the entire journey, then the £3 to park, the walk to the store, the high risk of "sorry it's not in stock, but we can order it in for you to collect tomorrow?" and then a reverse of the above to get back home again where it's cost you probably the best part of tenner when you include fuel, wear & tear as well, all for nothing.If you had the item in store for £15 (in a city centre location, not in an easily accessible free-to-park out of town retail park) and online for £25 including delivery I can fairly confidently say that I would I buy it online purely for the convenience and avoidance of all the aforementioned hassle.
We are well beyond talking about the High Street dying in future tense. It is already dead and has been for some years.
Wait in all day?
Delivered to neighbours- wait till they return.
Missed delivery, rearrange or collect from depo
Amazon lockers often full or unable to take large items.
Doddle queues
Collect+ from some grotty newsagent where you wait around as they dig around parcels to find yours and so on.
Even John Lewis at Waitrose involves waiting around till they go get it.
With high street, most supermarkets offer 2 hour free parking with a bit of shopping so pretty convenient.
And "LA's local obstacles course" doesn't apply to local towns where you know the routes.
And most store allow you to check stock and reserve, so best of both worlds.
Edited by hyphen on Sunday 3rd February 22:03
I have a partially formed theory on the reasons for the apparent demise of the High Street.
Dotted around the country, we find independently - often 'family owned' stores. Big ones. Roys of Wroxham, Roomes Stores in Upminster and others similar. Lots of smaller shops also privately owned too. These all seem to be doing 'OK'. In fact, one of the aforementioned I know to be doing rather well.
The stores that are disappearing are generally those that investment firms have acquired. Now, I have some experience of such firms and i know that they hold the normal view that unless you are returning year-on-year growth, you are failing and tend to bail out at the merest hint of difficult times.
Firms that are owned privately tend to recognise that some years are better than others, but they crack on regardless.
So my theory is that - whilst accepting retail has changed considerably - the influence of venture capitalists have raised expectations to unachievable levels which is painting and creating a picture of high street woe to be greater than it might otherwise be.
As I say, just a working theory.
Dotted around the country, we find independently - often 'family owned' stores. Big ones. Roys of Wroxham, Roomes Stores in Upminster and others similar. Lots of smaller shops also privately owned too. These all seem to be doing 'OK'. In fact, one of the aforementioned I know to be doing rather well.
The stores that are disappearing are generally those that investment firms have acquired. Now, I have some experience of such firms and i know that they hold the normal view that unless you are returning year-on-year growth, you are failing and tend to bail out at the merest hint of difficult times.
Firms that are owned privately tend to recognise that some years are better than others, but they crack on regardless.
So my theory is that - whilst accepting retail has changed considerably - the influence of venture capitalists have raised expectations to unachievable levels which is painting and creating a picture of high street woe to be greater than it might otherwise be.
As I say, just a working theory.
hyphen said:
It's balance out though, as delivery of online isn't often smooth.
Wait in all day?
Delivered to neighbours- wait till they return.
Missed delivery, rearrange or collect from depo
Amazon lockers often full or unable to take large items.
Doddle queues
Collect+ from some grotty newsagent where you wait around as they dig around parcels to find yours and so on.
Even John Lewis at Waitrose involves waiting around till they go get it.
With high street, most supermarkets offer 2 hour free parking with a bit of shopping so pretty convenient.
And "LA's local obstacles course" doesn't apply to local towns where you know the routes.
And most store allow you to check stock and reserve, so best of both worlds.
I get stuff delivered to workWait in all day?
Delivered to neighbours- wait till they return.
Missed delivery, rearrange or collect from depo
Amazon lockers often full or unable to take large items.
Doddle queues
Collect+ from some grotty newsagent where you wait around as they dig around parcels to find yours and so on.
Even John Lewis at Waitrose involves waiting around till they go get it.
With high street, most supermarkets offer 2 hour free parking with a bit of shopping so pretty convenient.
And "LA's local obstacles course" doesn't apply to local towns where you know the routes.
And most store allow you to check stock and reserve, so best of both worlds.
Edited by hyphen on Sunday 3rd February 22:03
hyphen said:
It's balance out though, as delivery of online isn't often smooth.
Wait in all day?
Delivered to neighbours- wait till they return.
Missed delivery, rearrange or collect from depo
Amazon lockers often full or unable to take large items.
Doddle queues
Collect+ from some grotty newsagent where you wait around as they dig around parcels to find yours and so on.
Even John Lewis at Waitrose involves waiting around till they go get it.
With high street, most supermarkets offer 2 hour free parking with a bit of shopping so pretty convenient.
And "LA's local obstacles course" doesn't apply to local towns where you know the routes.
And most store allow you to check stock and reserve, so best of both worlds.
I get everything delivered to work when i'm there, home when i'm there. Delivery is free on everything as i am on prime.Wait in all day?
Delivered to neighbours- wait till they return.
Missed delivery, rearrange or collect from depo
Amazon lockers often full or unable to take large items.
Doddle queues
Collect+ from some grotty newsagent where you wait around as they dig around parcels to find yours and so on.
Even John Lewis at Waitrose involves waiting around till they go get it.
With high street, most supermarkets offer 2 hour free parking with a bit of shopping so pretty convenient.
And "LA's local obstacles course" doesn't apply to local towns where you know the routes.
And most store allow you to check stock and reserve, so best of both worlds.
Edited by hyphen on Sunday 3rd February 22:03
I couldn't get away to see family this christmas, so did the lot online, not one thing was late or not delivered. I even had to return one item as it wasnt suitable for my niece, and that was painless, with a full refund.
jsf said:
hyphen said:
It's balance out though, as delivery of online isn't often smooth.
Wait in all day?
Delivered to neighbours- wait till they return.
Missed delivery, rearrange or collect from depo
Amazon lockers often full or unable to take large items.
Doddle queues
Collect+ from some grotty newsagent where you wait around as they dig around parcels to find yours and so on.
Even John Lewis at Waitrose involves waiting around till they go get it.
With high street, most supermarkets offer 2 hour free parking with a bit of shopping so pretty convenient.
And "LA's local obstacles course" doesn't apply to local towns where you know the routes.
And most store allow you to check stock and reserve, so best of both worlds.
I get everything delivered to work when i'm there, home when i'm there. Delivery is free on everything as i am on prime.Wait in all day?
Delivered to neighbours- wait till they return.
Missed delivery, rearrange or collect from depo
Amazon lockers often full or unable to take large items.
Doddle queues
Collect+ from some grotty newsagent where you wait around as they dig around parcels to find yours and so on.
Even John Lewis at Waitrose involves waiting around till they go get it.
With high street, most supermarkets offer 2 hour free parking with a bit of shopping so pretty convenient.
And "LA's local obstacles course" doesn't apply to local towns where you know the routes.
And most store allow you to check stock and reserve, so best of both worlds.
Edited by hyphen on Sunday 3rd February 22:03
I couldn't get away to see family this christmas, so did the lot online, not one thing was late or not delivered. I even had to return one item as it wasnt suitable for my niece, and that was painless, with a full refund.
Carrot said:
jsf said:
hyphen said:
It's balance out though, as delivery of online isn't often smooth.
Wait in all day?
Delivered to neighbours- wait till they return.
Missed delivery, rearrange or collect from depo
Amazon lockers often full or unable to take large items.
Doddle queues
Collect+ from some grotty newsagent where you wait around as they dig around parcels to find yours and so on.
Even John Lewis at Waitrose involves waiting around till they go get it.
With high street, most supermarkets offer 2 hour free parking with a bit of shopping so pretty convenient.
And "LA's local obstacles course" doesn't apply to local towns where you know the routes.
And most store allow you to check stock and reserve, so best of both worlds.
I get everything delivered to work when i'm there, home when i'm there. Delivery is free on everything as i am on prime.Wait in all day?
Delivered to neighbours- wait till they return.
Missed delivery, rearrange or collect from depo
Amazon lockers often full or unable to take large items.
Doddle queues
Collect+ from some grotty newsagent where you wait around as they dig around parcels to find yours and so on.
Even John Lewis at Waitrose involves waiting around till they go get it.
With high street, most supermarkets offer 2 hour free parking with a bit of shopping so pretty convenient.
And "LA's local obstacles course" doesn't apply to local towns where you know the routes.
And most store allow you to check stock and reserve, so best of both worlds.
Edited by hyphen on Sunday 3rd February 22:03
I couldn't get away to see family this christmas, so did the lot online, not one thing was late or not delivered. I even had to return one item as it wasnt suitable for my niece, and that was painless, with a full refund.
If everyone started to buy everything online and sending stuff to work, it would be the same as EVs, the national grid couldn't cope with 100% electric, and neither could large employers with hundreds of small deliveries per day...
jamoor said:
hyphen said:
It's balance out though, as delivery of online isn't often smooth.
Wait in all day?
Delivered to neighbours- wait till they return.
Missed delivery, rearrange or collect from depo
Amazon lockers often full or unable to take large items.
Doddle queues
Collect+ from some grotty newsagent where you wait around as they dig around parcels to find yours and so on.
Even John Lewis at Waitrose involves waiting around till they go get it.
With high street, most supermarkets offer 2 hour free parking with a bit of shopping so pretty convenient.
And "LA's local obstacles course" doesn't apply to local towns where you know the routes.
And most store allow you to check stock and reserve, so best of both worlds.
I get stuff delivered to workWait in all day?
Delivered to neighbours- wait till they return.
Missed delivery, rearrange or collect from depo
Amazon lockers often full or unable to take large items.
Doddle queues
Collect+ from some grotty newsagent where you wait around as they dig around parcels to find yours and so on.
Even John Lewis at Waitrose involves waiting around till they go get it.
With high street, most supermarkets offer 2 hour free parking with a bit of shopping so pretty convenient.
And "LA's local obstacles course" doesn't apply to local towns where you know the routes.
And most store allow you to check stock and reserve, so best of both worlds.
Edited by hyphen on Sunday 3rd February 22:03
No one waits in all day anymore for stuff you order online. ..bar waiting for tradesman (another thread)
Amazon has the online driver tracking nowadays that tells you how far away the driver is. DPD does this brilliantly.
I'm yet to experience the doddle queues- or any issue regarding amazon lockers. As mentioned it all gets delivered to work.
People want to grasp onto this notion that it's not too bad going to your local town centre etc but the numbers and the surveys do the talking. Time and time gain it is mentioned about the cost to park, the faff of driving through the centre with traffic. But councillors soldier on ignoring it all, right up until it's too late and the cost to change anything has gone. My local town centre has decided to remove the bus stop lay-bys and now the buses block the entire lane of traffic. Why....it doesn't make me want to catch a bus anymore. Just fuel the resentment towards the local planning department.
Edited by barker22 on Monday 4th February 19:59
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