Will the plan work to turn generation rent into buy?
Discussion
stitched said:
Just from curiosity what region are you in?
The South, which is about as bad as it gets when it comes to house prices (particularly when you’re on a single below-UK-average income) I’ll admit, however you’ve got to go where the work is. But again, I’m not moaning: I’m in good health, have a bed to go back to every night, a good landlord and employer etc, so could be a lot, lot worse.Re. renting, if there was a rental system like Germany with long (life-long?) tenancies with affordable rents and controlled increases then yes please, sign me up!
mikewilliams79 said:
Evanivitch said:
Where does the single person live whilst renovating a property?
In the property, duuu! No kitchen? No problem, toaster in living room. No bathroom - wet wipes. That's how you do it if you really want it. RA RA.
This property had no bathroom, filled a bucket in the kitchen to flush the bog.
Same for the bath, this time around however my in laws lived across the road and kindly offered shower time.
Working 2 12 hour days followed by 2 12 hour nights and sleeping in the lounge on a donated bed setee.
For 6 months, at 46 years old.
Fitted a kitchen, reconnected the bathroom, rewired, granted it made a huge difference being a spark, fitted a boiler and 6 rads, had to get a plumber out to cut into the gas and commission the boiler.
Laid oak floors throughout downstairs then sanded and varnished the stairs.
2 rooms upstairs carpeted, not by me as the mystery of laying carpet is one thing I know is beyond me.
Then plastered throughout and decorated.
The outside was a real mess, unfortunately my mother died 2 years back so used the money from my half of her house to flag the garden and build a conservatory, makes me smile to sit in there knowing it was her gift to us.
I regularly get subjected to that program, homes under the hammer? Then watch and think how easy it is with the cash to throw at it.
It doesn't need that much cash, just bloody hard work.
I know quite a few people my age who have never owned a house, they would tell you that they could never afford it, the truth is they were unwilling to put in the effort required.
Jimbo. said:
An interesting thread, this. Particularly for me, very much a “generation rent”. I must stress that this isn’t some form of pity-party for one!
When you’re spending 50% of your slightly below-average take home pay on rent, by the time you’ve fed yourself, clothed yourself, filled the tank etc, there really isn’t a lot left. And that’s living your best Aldi life: no fancy holidays, no designer labels, cheap phones, basic cars etc, not pissing it up the wall on big nights out etc. Also, by “living” I also mean just that ie having something to do outside work, social contact, contributing locally etc. Y’know, the stuff that actually matters
Yes, I could move somewhere cheaper and commute, but with less rent comes less quality of life, less time, more costs, so no overall gain. And yes, I could move away entirely to live like a hermit somewhere cheaper: it just involves leaving a job I’ve worked hard for and leaving a community I feel part of. Again, big loss, and there’s more to life than just a pile of bricks and mortar.
So, when (average) house prices are running at 15x salary, the cheap houses are no longer cheap, all the small houses no longer small (extensions turning 2 beds into 3 beds, 3s into 4 etc), proposals for anything new shouted down by locals already on “the ladder” (I don’t care for ladders, I just want a secure home) and anything new that does make it through flat out unaffordable (despite the claim!)...what can you do?
I’m lucky in that I have a roof (albeit just a small part and rented of course) under which it’s dry and warm, and I’m in the job I wanted. I just hope I’ve sorted something out by the time I retire, should I make it that far!
So........................When you’re spending 50% of your slightly below-average take home pay on rent, by the time you’ve fed yourself, clothed yourself, filled the tank etc, there really isn’t a lot left. And that’s living your best Aldi life: no fancy holidays, no designer labels, cheap phones, basic cars etc, not pissing it up the wall on big nights out etc. Also, by “living” I also mean just that ie having something to do outside work, social contact, contributing locally etc. Y’know, the stuff that actually matters
Yes, I could move somewhere cheaper and commute, but with less rent comes less quality of life, less time, more costs, so no overall gain. And yes, I could move away entirely to live like a hermit somewhere cheaper: it just involves leaving a job I’ve worked hard for and leaving a community I feel part of. Again, big loss, and there’s more to life than just a pile of bricks and mortar.
So, when (average) house prices are running at 15x salary, the cheap houses are no longer cheap, all the small houses no longer small (extensions turning 2 beds into 3 beds, 3s into 4 etc), proposals for anything new shouted down by locals already on “the ladder” (I don’t care for ladders, I just want a secure home) and anything new that does make it through flat out unaffordable (despite the claim!)...what can you do?
I’m lucky in that I have a roof (albeit just a small part and rented of course) under which it’s dry and warm, and I’m in the job I wanted. I just hope I’ve sorted something out by the time I retire, should I make it that far!
Not willing to make any sacrifices but you expect that a suitable place should be made available to fall into your lap. Good luck with that.
NRS said:
No problem - but again you don't answer it. Is it harder to buy something when your salary has increased 3 time and the thing has gone up 6.5 times? It's a easy question, and an obvious answer to me...
Do you know if this is an even spread across the market? So have nice houses gone up disproportionately more than the run down fixer-upper? If so, I can see the argument being weighted in favour of doing that.stitched said:
You say that as a piss take.
This property had no bathroom, filled a bucket in the kitchen to flush the bog.
Same for the bath, this time around however my in laws lived across the road and kindly offered shower time.
Working 2 12 hour days followed by 2 12 hour nights and sleeping in the lounge on a donated bed setee.
For 6 months, at 46 years old.
Fitted a kitchen, reconnected the bathroom, rewired, granted it made a huge difference being a spark, fitted a boiler and 6 rads, had to get a plumber out to cut into the gas and commission the boiler.
Laid oak floors throughout downstairs then sanded and varnished the stairs.
2 rooms upstairs carpeted, not by me as the mystery of laying carpet is one thing I know is beyond me.
Then plastered throughout and decorated.
The outside was a real mess, unfortunately my mother died 2 years back so used the money from my half of her house to flag the garden and build a conservatory, makes me smile to sit in there knowing it was her gift to us.
I regularly get subjected to that program, homes under the hammer? Then watch and think how easy it is with the cash to throw at it.
It doesn't need that much cash, just bloody hard work.
I know quite a few people my age who have never owned a house, they would tell you that they could never afford it, the truth is they were unwilling to put in the effort required.
So what about your other half? What were they doing?This property had no bathroom, filled a bucket in the kitchen to flush the bog.
Same for the bath, this time around however my in laws lived across the road and kindly offered shower time.
Working 2 12 hour days followed by 2 12 hour nights and sleeping in the lounge on a donated bed setee.
For 6 months, at 46 years old.
Fitted a kitchen, reconnected the bathroom, rewired, granted it made a huge difference being a spark, fitted a boiler and 6 rads, had to get a plumber out to cut into the gas and commission the boiler.
Laid oak floors throughout downstairs then sanded and varnished the stairs.
2 rooms upstairs carpeted, not by me as the mystery of laying carpet is one thing I know is beyond me.
Then plastered throughout and decorated.
The outside was a real mess, unfortunately my mother died 2 years back so used the money from my half of her house to flag the garden and build a conservatory, makes me smile to sit in there knowing it was her gift to us.
I regularly get subjected to that program, homes under the hammer? Then watch and think how easy it is with the cash to throw at it.
It doesn't need that much cash, just bloody hard work.
I know quite a few people my age who have never owned a house, they would tell you that they could never afford it, the truth is they were unwilling to put in the effort required.
Meanwhile, you weren't exactly independent if you had support across the road and a cash windfall in your pocket.
Good graft, but don't overstate it.
Evanivitch said:
stitched said:
You say that as a piss take.
This property had no bathroom, filled a bucket in the kitchen to flush the bog.
Same for the bath, this time around however my in laws lived across the road and kindly offered shower time.
Working 2 12 hour days followed by 2 12 hour nights and sleeping in the lounge on a donated bed setee.
For 6 months, at 46 years old.
Fitted a kitchen, reconnected the bathroom, rewired, granted it made a huge difference being a spark, fitted a boiler and 6 rads, had to get a plumber out to cut into the gas and commission the boiler.
Laid oak floors throughout downstairs then sanded and varnished the stairs.
2 rooms upstairs carpeted, not by me as the mystery of laying carpet is one thing I know is beyond me.
Then plastered throughout and decorated.
The outside was a real mess, unfortunately my mother died 2 years back so used the money from my half of her house to flag the garden and build a conservatory, makes me smile to sit in there knowing it was her gift to us.
I regularly get subjected to that program, homes under the hammer? Then watch and think how easy it is with the cash to throw at it.
It doesn't need that much cash, just bloody hard work.
I know quite a few people my age who have never owned a house, they would tell you that they could never afford it, the truth is they were unwilling to put in the effort required.
So what about your other half? What were they doing?This property had no bathroom, filled a bucket in the kitchen to flush the bog.
Same for the bath, this time around however my in laws lived across the road and kindly offered shower time.
Working 2 12 hour days followed by 2 12 hour nights and sleeping in the lounge on a donated bed setee.
For 6 months, at 46 years old.
Fitted a kitchen, reconnected the bathroom, rewired, granted it made a huge difference being a spark, fitted a boiler and 6 rads, had to get a plumber out to cut into the gas and commission the boiler.
Laid oak floors throughout downstairs then sanded and varnished the stairs.
2 rooms upstairs carpeted, not by me as the mystery of laying carpet is one thing I know is beyond me.
Then plastered throughout and decorated.
The outside was a real mess, unfortunately my mother died 2 years back so used the money from my half of her house to flag the garden and build a conservatory, makes me smile to sit in there knowing it was her gift to us.
I regularly get subjected to that program, homes under the hammer? Then watch and think how easy it is with the cash to throw at it.
It doesn't need that much cash, just bloody hard work.
I know quite a few people my age who have never owned a house, they would tell you that they could never afford it, the truth is they were unwilling to put in the effort required.
Meanwhile, you weren't exactly independent if you had support across the road and a cash windfall in your pocket.
Good graft, but don't overstate it.
As with most ladies I have seen try it she has a talent for glossing wood which I lack.
The windfall, unwelcome as it was, came a couple of years later and paid for the outside.
The help across the road was a godsend, occasional meals, laundry facilities and showers made it almost civilised.
I'd have managed without mind.
stitched said:
My other half was there as much as me, cleaning up my crap, helping wherever she could.
As with most ladies I have seen try it she has a talent for glossing wood which I lack.
The windfall, unwelcome as it was, came a couple of years later and paid for the outside.
The help across the road was a godsend, occasional meals, laundry facilities and showers made it almost civilised.
I'd have managed without mind.
Sounds like hell As with most ladies I have seen try it she has a talent for glossing wood which I lack.
The windfall, unwelcome as it was, came a couple of years later and paid for the outside.
The help across the road was a godsend, occasional meals, laundry facilities and showers made it almost civilised.
I'd have managed without mind.
Jimbo. said:
stitched said:
Just from curiosity what region are you in?
The South, which is about as bad as it gets when it comes to house prices (particularly when you’re on a single below-UK-average income) I’ll admit, however you’ve got to go where the work is. But again, I’m not moaning: I’m in good health, have a bed to go back to every night, a good landlord and employer etc, so could be a lot, lot worse.Re. renting, if there was a rental system like Germany with long (life-long?) tenancies with affordable rents and controlled increases then yes please, sign me up!
I'd need a lot more capital to consider being nearer the capital.
Besides, having lived and worked there I realised big cities are not my thing.
Don't give up on the idea of owning though, it is achievable.
stitched said:
I'm in Stroud, well connected regarding transport and not overly pricey.
I'd need a lot more capital to consider being nearer the capital.
Besides, having lived and worked there I realised big cities are not my thing.
Don't give up on the idea of owning though, it is achievable.
Not for everyone I'd need a lot more capital to consider being nearer the capital.
Besides, having lived and worked there I realised big cities are not my thing.
Don't give up on the idea of owning though, it is achievable.
mikewilliams79 said:
stitched said:
I'm in Stroud, well connected regarding transport and not overly pricey.
I'd need a lot more capital to consider being nearer the capital.
Besides, having lived and worked there I realised big cities are not my thing.
Don't give up on the idea of owning though, it is achievable.
Not for everyone I'd need a lot more capital to consider being nearer the capital.
Besides, having lived and worked there I realised big cities are not my thing.
Don't give up on the idea of owning though, it is achievable.
Any job has prospects if you exert yourself.
London is a different thing, doubt I could buy there TBH
But working in London doesn't necessarily mean living there, I'm lucky to live 3 miles from my place of work, cycle most times.
However I have travelled 50 miles to work at times, whilst self employed relocated from Glasgow to London to remain solvent, owned 6 properties.
It is do able.
Biggy Stardust said:
So........................
Not willing to make any sacrifices but you expect that a suitable place should be made available to fall into your lap. Good luck with that.
Well, if by “sacrifices” we can mean foregoing multiple/fancy holidays, nice cars, nice clothes, big nights out, etc etc then yes, I have and do make those sacrifices. I don’t needlessly piss money up the wall, primarily because I don’t have any to do so! Not willing to make any sacrifices but you expect that a suitable place should be made available to fall into your lap. Good luck with that.
However, there comes a point where you’ve sacrificed so much you’ve literally nothing left to live for outside of work, such as social interaction, hobbies etc. Then where’s the point in living, if it can be called that?
Again, not a moan, just trying to strike a balance
EDIT: whilst at the same time never expecting anything to just “fall into my lap”. Well aware that these things have to be worked for, and am prepared to work for them. But when you’re looking at 15x what you earn...Edited by Jimbo. on Tuesday 13th April 10:23
Jimbo. said:
Biggy Stardust said:
So........................
Not willing to make any sacrifices but you expect that a suitable place should be made available to fall into your lap. Good luck with that.
Well, if by “sacrifices” we can mean foregoing multiple/fancy holidays, nice cars, nice clothes, big nights out, etc etc then yes, I have and do make those sacrifices. I don’t needlessly piss money up the wall, primarily because I don’t have any to do so! Not willing to make any sacrifices but you expect that a suitable place should be made available to fall into your lap. Good luck with that.
However, there comes a point where you’ve sacrificed so much you’ve literally nothing left to live for outside of work, such as social interaction, hobbies etc. Then where’s the point in living, if it can be called that?
Again, not a moan, just trying to strike a balance
EDIT: whilst at the same time never expecting anything to just “fall into my lap”. Well aware that these things have to be worked for, and am prepared to work for them. But when you’re looking at 15x what you earn...Edited by Jimbo. on Tuesday 13th April 10:23
I cannot believe there in not a property in the area worth less than 15 times your wage,
Again unless you are in London, in which case I'd suggest relocating.
stitched said:
Evanivitch said:
stitched said:
You say that as a piss take.
This property had no bathroom, filled a bucket in the kitchen to flush the bog.
Same for the bath, this time around however my in laws lived across the road and kindly offered shower time.
Working 2 12 hour days followed by 2 12 hour nights and sleeping in the lounge on a donated bed setee.
For 6 months, at 46 years old.
Fitted a kitchen, reconnected the bathroom, rewired, granted it made a huge difference being a spark, fitted a boiler and 6 rads, had to get a plumber out to cut into the gas and commission the boiler.
Laid oak floors throughout downstairs then sanded and varnished the stairs.
2 rooms upstairs carpeted, not by me as the mystery of laying carpet is one thing I know is beyond me.
Then plastered throughout and decorated.
The outside was a real mess, unfortunately my mother died 2 years back so used the money from my half of her house to flag the garden and build a conservatory, makes me smile to sit in there knowing it was her gift to us.
I regularly get subjected to that program, homes under the hammer? Then watch and think how easy it is with the cash to throw at it.
It doesn't need that much cash, just bloody hard work.
I know quite a few people my age who have never owned a house, they would tell you that they could never afford it, the truth is they were unwilling to put in the effort required.
So what about your other half? What were they doing?This property had no bathroom, filled a bucket in the kitchen to flush the bog.
Same for the bath, this time around however my in laws lived across the road and kindly offered shower time.
Working 2 12 hour days followed by 2 12 hour nights and sleeping in the lounge on a donated bed setee.
For 6 months, at 46 years old.
Fitted a kitchen, reconnected the bathroom, rewired, granted it made a huge difference being a spark, fitted a boiler and 6 rads, had to get a plumber out to cut into the gas and commission the boiler.
Laid oak floors throughout downstairs then sanded and varnished the stairs.
2 rooms upstairs carpeted, not by me as the mystery of laying carpet is one thing I know is beyond me.
Then plastered throughout and decorated.
The outside was a real mess, unfortunately my mother died 2 years back so used the money from my half of her house to flag the garden and build a conservatory, makes me smile to sit in there knowing it was her gift to us.
I regularly get subjected to that program, homes under the hammer? Then watch and think how easy it is with the cash to throw at it.
It doesn't need that much cash, just bloody hard work.
I know quite a few people my age who have never owned a house, they would tell you that they could never afford it, the truth is they were unwilling to put in the effort required.
Meanwhile, you weren't exactly independent if you had support across the road and a cash windfall in your pocket.
Good graft, but don't overstate it.
As with most ladies I have seen try it she has a talent for glossing wood which I lack.
The windfall, unwelcome as it was, came a couple of years later and paid for the outside.
The help across the road was a godsend, occasional meals, laundry facilities and showers made it almost civilised.
I'd have managed without mind.
You are delusional if you think that everyone should be willing or able to do this.
Electro1980 said:
stitched said:
Evanivitch said:
stitched said:
You say that as a piss take.
This property had no bathroom, filled a bucket in the kitchen to flush the bog.
Same for the bath, this time around however my in laws lived across the road and kindly offered shower time.
Working 2 12 hour days followed by 2 12 hour nights and sleeping in the lounge on a donated bed setee.
For 6 months, at 46 years old.
Fitted a kitchen, reconnected the bathroom, rewired, granted it made a huge difference being a spark, fitted a boiler and 6 rads, had to get a plumber out to cut into the gas and commission the boiler.
Laid oak floors throughout downstairs then sanded and varnished the stairs.
2 rooms upstairs carpeted, not by me as the mystery of laying carpet is one thing I know is beyond me.
Then plastered throughout and decorated.
The outside was a real mess, unfortunately my mother died 2 years back so used the money from my half of her house to flag the garden and build a conservatory, makes me smile to sit in there knowing it was her gift to us.
I regularly get subjected to that program, homes under the hammer? Then watch and think how easy it is with the cash to throw at it.
It doesn't need that much cash, just bloody hard work.
I know quite a few people my age who have never owned a house, they would tell you that they could never afford it, the truth is they were unwilling to put in the effort required.
So what about your other half? What were they doing?This property had no bathroom, filled a bucket in the kitchen to flush the bog.
Same for the bath, this time around however my in laws lived across the road and kindly offered shower time.
Working 2 12 hour days followed by 2 12 hour nights and sleeping in the lounge on a donated bed setee.
For 6 months, at 46 years old.
Fitted a kitchen, reconnected the bathroom, rewired, granted it made a huge difference being a spark, fitted a boiler and 6 rads, had to get a plumber out to cut into the gas and commission the boiler.
Laid oak floors throughout downstairs then sanded and varnished the stairs.
2 rooms upstairs carpeted, not by me as the mystery of laying carpet is one thing I know is beyond me.
Then plastered throughout and decorated.
The outside was a real mess, unfortunately my mother died 2 years back so used the money from my half of her house to flag the garden and build a conservatory, makes me smile to sit in there knowing it was her gift to us.
I regularly get subjected to that program, homes under the hammer? Then watch and think how easy it is with the cash to throw at it.
It doesn't need that much cash, just bloody hard work.
I know quite a few people my age who have never owned a house, they would tell you that they could never afford it, the truth is they were unwilling to put in the effort required.
Meanwhile, you weren't exactly independent if you had support across the road and a cash windfall in your pocket.
Good graft, but don't overstate it.
As with most ladies I have seen try it she has a talent for glossing wood which I lack.
The windfall, unwelcome as it was, came a couple of years later and paid for the outside.
The help across the road was a godsend, occasional meals, laundry facilities and showers made it almost civilised.
I'd have managed without mind.
You are delusional if you think that everyone should be willing or able to do this.
No help from family, no lies to the bank.
I did however have to take a job to secure the mortgage, which dropped my income by nearly £20k.
I had a decent amount saved, whilst sorting out the job and securing the mortgage I worked in Runcorn, Stonehouse near Stroud, Glasgow and London building up my deposit as much as possible.
Not everyone can do this, accepted.
Most have more family support than I did though.
stitched said:
.
No help from family, no lies to the bank.
You literally just said you had showers and hot meals (plus a partner) across the road.No help from family, no lies to the bank.
A single person having moved for work would have none of that.
Look, I'm not questioning your graft. I have friends that have done very similar and have amazing homes for it. I've personally benefited from in-laws too. One friend even spent 18 months between both sets of parents homes with his 2 young children whilst making his home even habitable. Huge respect for him. Even without children, moving home was never an option for my partner and I.
I struggle to fathom how some people living in south afford to live.
It's bad enough where we are for people starting out-on the boundary of the Lake District National Park. It's always been something of an oddity as the Nuclear Industry has provided well paid jobs to thousands for decades-I believe the median wage is the second highest in the country while house prices were very low vs income until around the turn of the new millennium.
I'm 37 the last house I live in with my parents was a 4 bed detached they bought for 95K on a new build estate in late 1999. Sold for 250K in 2005. At that time I was buying my first house, a decent sized 3 bed ex-council semi for 75K (which looking at the records sold for 31K in 1999) sold for 87K in 2008 when I met my now wife. Our current house was a bit of a wreck and hadn't been lived in a for a few years, we were slightly fortuitous with the timing with the financial crash as people and borrowers got nervous so got it for a good price after initially refusing to get involved in a sealed bids situation.
We've recently contemplated moving, the next move would probably be the last move until the kids are out the house. The local market despite COIVD and the unknown fallout seems bonkers at the moment. The move for us would be to go from a 4 bed semi with OK garden to something detached with land. Our house has been valued at 275K but what we're after is 450-500K which in 2017/18 were 300-350K. We're mortgage free now, so while it would be effectively starting again we'd clear the new mortgage prior to retirement. If things continue as they have been we'll soon be priced out of a move despite us both working. Attitude to debt, risk, and have it now attitude from the generation after me just seems to totally different.
It's bad enough where we are for people starting out-on the boundary of the Lake District National Park. It's always been something of an oddity as the Nuclear Industry has provided well paid jobs to thousands for decades-I believe the median wage is the second highest in the country while house prices were very low vs income until around the turn of the new millennium.
I'm 37 the last house I live in with my parents was a 4 bed detached they bought for 95K on a new build estate in late 1999. Sold for 250K in 2005. At that time I was buying my first house, a decent sized 3 bed ex-council semi for 75K (which looking at the records sold for 31K in 1999) sold for 87K in 2008 when I met my now wife. Our current house was a bit of a wreck and hadn't been lived in a for a few years, we were slightly fortuitous with the timing with the financial crash as people and borrowers got nervous so got it for a good price after initially refusing to get involved in a sealed bids situation.
We've recently contemplated moving, the next move would probably be the last move until the kids are out the house. The local market despite COIVD and the unknown fallout seems bonkers at the moment. The move for us would be to go from a 4 bed semi with OK garden to something detached with land. Our house has been valued at 275K but what we're after is 450-500K which in 2017/18 were 300-350K. We're mortgage free now, so while it would be effectively starting again we'd clear the new mortgage prior to retirement. If things continue as they have been we'll soon be priced out of a move despite us both working. Attitude to debt, risk, and have it now attitude from the generation after me just seems to totally different.
Edited by a311 on Tuesday 13th April 12:21
Evanivitch said:
stitched said:
.
No help from family, no lies to the bank.
You literally just said you had showers and hot meals (plus a partner) across the road.No help from family, no lies to the bank.
A single person having moved for work would have none of that.
Look, I'm not questioning your graft. I have friends that have done very similar and have amazing homes for it. I've personally benefited from in-laws too. One friend even spent 18 months between both sets of parents homes with his 2 young children whilst making his home even habitable. Huge respect for him. Even without children, moving home was never an option for my partner and I.
First time round was a lot harder, I had fewer skills and less money coming in.
I'd also moved to an area where people from my area were unwelcome, didn't stop me living there and making good friends though.
A 3 bed terrace in Chester, my hometown would have been between £70 and £90 grand.
Moving 15 miles away I bought one for £20k.
10 years later that one was rented and I was living mortgage free in a fairly decent ex council.
Lost all that and never expected to own property again, Life changes though.
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