Nurses, Rail Staff and Now Driving Examiners

[TGCOTF-dewey]

Vasco said:

TGCOTF-dewey said:

Vasco said:

TGCOTF-dewey said:

Vasco said:

loskie said:

How do you all suggest Public Sector workers get the pay rise they deserve?

I'm an AHO (EO grade with APHA). I'm dedicated to my job and the industry I serve yet after 18 years my pay is around £26.7k. There's no career progression in my technical field.

Pay increases come via VOUCHERS . We CANNOT progress through the payscale.

I can find myself at the other end of the country managing a site of 30 people. 99% of whom are paid more than I am.

It's NOT about the current "cost of living crisis" my pay has gone backwards since 2009.

The country needs people to work in the public sector to deliver a decent and committed service. What should I do?

Do you want safe food? Do you want good animal welfare standards?

Go for a different job.

Which is fine, but then who does the job?

Or do we just not bother with these sorts of roles? I mean industry is great at self policing... Banking crisis, food crises, health and safety fatalities, etc... so there is obviously no need.

Edited by TGCOTF-dewey on Monday 1st May 08:18

The question was 'What should I do' - to which the answer is to find another job.

It's simply not possible for one person to change a policy or large scale operation, better to look after yourself. For all anyone knows, there may be other people happy to do the job because it's an area of special interest to them, or they simply have lower overheads.

It's not ideal, but you only have one life and need to live it to your own needs.
.

Except it wasn't the only question. It was "How do you all suggest Public Sector workers get the pay rise they deserve?"

Suggesting that all public sector workers leave isn't a very sensible suggestion is it.

I only attempted to answer one question, which I did. Others more qualified may be better suited to answer the rest - to me, a Public Sector employee can only look to the government for any increases, or changes etc. You can vote them out at the next election and see whether others are more appropriate.

What is your solution?

Get another job is not helpful though. It doesn't solve the problem, it makes it worse as fewer people do the same workload for decreasing salaries.

Then when it goes tits up, the public point out how st the <insert public sector org here> is. See the constant NHS bashing posts on here.

My answer... When it wants to, the government can find the money for private sector bailouts and subsidies, e.g. Banking and furlough.

Perhaps it's about time that the private sector had a more fair taxation system levied on them. For example, Amazon essentially paid zero UK tax in FY21.

[NerveAgent]

TGCOTF-dewey said:

Get another job is not helpful though. It doesn't solve the problem, it makes it worse as fewer people do the same workload for decreasing salaries.

Then when it goes tits up, the public point out how st the <insert public sector org here> is. See the constant NHS bashing posts on here.

My answer... When it wants to, the government can find the money for private sector bailouts and subsidies, e.g. Banking and furlough.

Perhaps it's about time that the private sector had a more fair taxation system levied on them. For example, Amazon essentially paid zero UK tax in FY21.

Short-termism and only considering how things affect yourself seems to be an ingrained British mindset. Same people complaining things have “gone to the dogs” further down the line of course.

[chemistry]

TGCOTF-dewey said:

Get another job is not helpful though. It doesn't solve the problem, it makes it worse as fewer people do the same workload for decreasing salaries.

Then when it goes tits up, the public point out how st the <insert public sector org here> is. See the constant NHS bashing posts on here.

My answer... When it wants to, the government can find the money for private sector bailouts and subsidies, e.g. Banking and furlough.

Perhaps it's about time that the private sector had a more fair taxation system levied on them. For example, Amazon essentially paid zero UK tax in FY21.

I think an element of tax reform to better tax huge companies like Amazon may well be sensible, although implementing it will be difficult given the global nature of these businesses. Alongside this, I also think we should scrap the NHS and adopt something more like the European or Australian public-private healthcare model (especially since Australian system is so good we're losing huge numbers of NHS staff to it....).

[Vasco]

valiant said:

Vasco said:

I only attempted to answer one question, which I did. Others more qualified may be better suited to answer the rest - to me, a Public Sector employee can only look to the government for any increases, or changes etc. You can vote them out at the next election and see whether others are more appropriate.

What is your solution?

Which in this case would mean waiting for another two years in the midst of a cost of living crisis where wages have not kept pace which would lead to even lower morale and exacerbate the existing staff retention problems and there’d still be no guarantee that the next lot would do anything different.

Correct.

[86]

I see it is being reported nurses are refusing to provide intensive care support at places like Colchester. Whatever support I might have had for nurses it is now zero. Frankly these people shouldn’t be nurses if they refuse critical care support. They are in the wrong job

[Vasco]

chemistry said:

TGCOTF-dewey said:

Get another job is not helpful though. It doesn't solve the problem, it makes it worse as fewer people do the same workload for decreasing salaries.

Then when it goes tits up, the public point out how st the <insert public sector org here> is. See the constant NHS bashing posts on here.

My answer... When it wants to, the government can find the money for private sector bailouts and subsidies, e.g. Banking and furlough.

Perhaps it's about time that the private sector had a more fair taxation system levied on them. For example, Amazon essentially paid zero UK tax in FY21.

I think an element of tax reform to better tax huge companies like Amazon may well be sensible, although implementing it will be difficult given the global nature of these businesses. Alongside this, I also think we should scrap the NHS and adopt something more like the European or Australian public-private healthcare model (especially since Australian system is so good we're losing huge numbers of NHS staff to it....).

I think many people nowadays believe that the whole NHS needs an absolute rewrite. Against that, it still has many excellent parts, and staff.
The trouble is that any thorough review would take so long - 10 years ?

[Dixy]

86 said:

I see it is being reported nurses are refusing to provide intensive care support at places like Colchester. Whatever support I might have had for nurses it is now zero. Frankly these people shouldn’t be nurses if they refuse critical care support. They are in the wrong job

Well many of them agree with you and have left the profession because we refuse to recognise their contribution. Perhaps they should resign on-mass, would that make you happy.

[Hugo Stiglitz]

MiniMan64 said:

I wonder what his thoughts will be in a few years when schools can’t offer A level teaching in Maths and Sciences and the rest of the school are being taught all subjects by PE teachers or in groups of 100 in the hall….

Direct your anger at this useless government instead of those on strike.

You do realise what 6th form pay scales are don't you.

You're saying pay them more.

Next year, same again.

Then again.

Otherwise strike again and again. Use the children to threaten more?

[MiniMan64]

86 said:

I see it is being reported nurses are refusing to provide intensive care support at places like Colchester. Whatever support I might have had for nurses it is now zero. Frankly these people shouldn’t be nurses if they refuse critical care support. They are in the wrong job

If the government decided to cut all nurse pay by 20% tomorrow (spent it on COVID, sorry!) and most of them then quit for other jobs would it still be their fault that they weren’t providing critical care?

[Hugo Stiglitz]

Who is cutting their pay by 20% tomorrow?

[CoolHands]

MiniMan64 said:

86 said:

I see it is being reported nurses are refusing to provide intensive care support at places like Colchester. Whatever support I might have had for nurses it is now zero. Frankly these people shouldn’t be nurses if they refuse critical care support. They are in the wrong job

If the government decided to cut all nurse pay by 20% tomorrow (spent it on COVID, sorry!) and most of them then quit for other jobs would it still be their fault that they weren’t providing critical care?

He didn’t support them anyway, so pointless asking

[MiniMan64]

Hugo Stiglitz said:

Who is cutting their pay by 20% tomorrow?

Hypothetical.

86 is implying that medical staff don’t really need a decent wage and should be working for the pure love of the job.
If he believes that to be true rather than just trolling, which I suspect, then cutting their wage rather than increasing it shouldn’t be an issue.

A lot of people seem to be applying private sector thinking in this thread, supply and demand on wages but both the NHS and teaching are losing staff hand over fist, shouldn’t these magic market forces mean pay is increasing to counter act this change?

[Hugo Stiglitz]

So there is no 20% cut tomorrow.

[86]

Dixy said:

86 said:

I see it is being reported nurses are refusing to provide intensive care support at places like Colchester. Whatever support I might have had for nurses it is now zero. Frankly these people shouldn’t be nurses if they refuse critical care support. They are in the wrong job

Well many of them agree with you and have left the profession because we refuse to recognise their contribution. Perhaps they should resign on-mass, would that make you happy.

If that’s what they wish to do. No point being a nurse and refusing to provide critical care. Those people are most certainly in the wrong job

[MiniMan64]

86 said:

Dixy said:

86 said:

I see it is being reported nurses are refusing to provide intensive care support at places like Colchester. Whatever support I might have had for nurses it is now zero. Frankly these people shouldn’t be nurses if they refuse critical care support. They are in the wrong job

Well many of them agree with you and have left the profession because we refuse to recognise their contribution. Perhaps they should resign on-mass, would that make you happy.

If that’s what they wish to do. No point being a nurse and refusing to provide critical care. Those people are most certainly in the wrong job

And what happens when no one wants the job?

[86]

MiniMan64 said:

86 said:

Dixy said:

86 said:

I see it is being reported nurses are refusing to provide intensive care support at places like Colchester. Whatever support I might have had for nurses it is now zero. Frankly these people shouldn’t be nurses if they refuse critical care support. They are in the wrong job

Well many of them agree with you and have left the profession because we refuse to recognise their contribution. Perhaps they should resign on-mass, would that make you happy.

If that’s what they wish to do. No point being a nurse and refusing to provide critical care. Those people are most certainly in the wrong job

And what happens when no one wants the job?

Privatise it or some other hybrid system copied from best in class around the world. National Health Service is broken and Unions are like a stuck record. Nobody is listening your position is hopeless now that other unions have accepted

[Vasco]

It may just be me but that Union leader Pat Cullen seems a fairly aggressive type (probably fairly ideal in Union terms!) and is just the sort (imho) to rub just about everyone else up the wrong way.
It's looking a bit like a fresh national vote may not achieve the necessary 50% - in which case I gather the pay increase will be imposed by the government as other unions have already accepted it.

[MiniMan64]

86 said:

Privatise it or some other hybrid system copied from best in class around the world. National Health Service is broken and Unions are like a stuck record. Nobody is listening your position is hopeless now that other unions have accepted

That’ll go well for the populace and the governments who imposes it.

[86]

MiniMan64 said:

86 said:

Privatise it or some other hybrid system copied from best in class around the world. National Health Service is broken and Unions are like a stuck record. Nobody is listening your position is hopeless now that other unions have accepted

That’ll go well for the populace and the governments who imposes it.

Even Labour say the NHS is bust!

Just seen the news. Hardly any nurses on picket lines just a few people who don’t seem to care much about patient care having a laugh. Not a great look when people are being put at risk of death due to withdrawal of critical care support.

[Ashfordian]

86 said:

Even Labour say the NHS is bust!

Just seen the news. Hardly any nurses on picket lines just a few people who don’t seem to care much about patient care having a laugh. Not a great look when people are being put at risk of death due to withdrawal of critical care support.

Is punching down a good look 86?

Maybe you can drive over to a picket line in your Porsche and tell them that you don't think they are worth a few extra hundred pounds a year on their salary...