Jon Venables back in prison
Discussion
[quote=JPJPJP]I would say that he has had enough chances now and that it is clear that he remains a long, long way from any standard of behaviour that would make it safe for him to be free in society
Maybe he will reach a point where he does meet the required standard to be released but, for now, it is surely best that he is incarcerated
I would also like for him to be irreversibly castrated - he definitely isn't good breeding stock [quote]
I agree with this on a purely basic / animal level, sort of revenge for behaving worse than an animal himself, as it should remove the physical urges.But I'm sure I read somewhere that, mentally, it could make the subject even worse, even more twisted, if that's even possible with Venables.
Maybe he will reach a point where he does meet the required standard to be released but, for now, it is surely best that he is incarcerated
I would also like for him to be irreversibly castrated - he definitely isn't good breeding stock [quote]
I agree with this on a purely basic / animal level, sort of revenge for behaving worse than an animal himself, as it should remove the physical urges.But I'm sure I read somewhere that, mentally, it could make the subject even worse, even more twisted, if that's even possible with Venables.
King Herald said:
Red 4 said:
Another documentary tonight for anyone interested;
I suspect this will be a bit different to the one aired on Monday
James Bulger - A Mother's Story.
/
I’m not sure I could bring myself to watch that, can’t even begin to imagine the anguish his mother went through during and after, and ever since in fact. I suspect this will be a bit different to the one aired on Monday
James Bulger - A Mother's Story.
/
How does she feel to know this sick animal is still out there, still cultivating and promoting child rape and still being looked after by the state.
I was not living in the UK at the time of the crime. I knew about it, but not any of the details. It made me too sad watching that doco.
It would not bother me at all if Venables' current identity became public knowledge.
Watched it, but only because my wife had gone to bed with our two year old as I knew it would upset her too much. I've no idea why I ended up watching it as I knew it would upset me but my god that was hard viewing.
Such a sad case all round. I opened up Facebook just before posting this and I noticed a couple of reposts of pictures of Venables taken within the last few years-supposedly.
Probably made more difficult for me what with having a two year old at the moment, but they are so fragile, innocent and joyous that to think of what that poor boy went through is enough to drive you mad. That they're such happy little bundles of fun (when they're not screaming the house down and driving you insane!) is heartbreaking, that two kids could erase that joy for his family for whatever reason they came up with is tragic.
Such a sad case all round. I opened up Facebook just before posting this and I noticed a couple of reposts of pictures of Venables taken within the last few years-supposedly.
Probably made more difficult for me what with having a two year old at the moment, but they are so fragile, innocent and joyous that to think of what that poor boy went through is enough to drive you mad. That they're such happy little bundles of fun (when they're not screaming the house down and driving you insane!) is heartbreaking, that two kids could erase that joy for his family for whatever reason they came up with is tragic.
A good documentary imo.
That's how it was.
Pretty grim watching it and it brought back a lot of memories for me - but absolutely no point in trying to sanitize this crime (although some details were left out) or Venables or Thompson.
I agree with Denise Fergus - she has not had justice.
Venables continues to make a mockery of the system.
That's how it was.
Pretty grim watching it and it brought back a lot of memories for me - but absolutely no point in trying to sanitize this crime (although some details were left out) or Venables or Thompson.
I agree with Denise Fergus - she has not had justice.
Venables continues to make a mockery of the system.
Edited by Red 4 on Thursday 8th February 22:28
LaurasOtherHalf said:
...... That they're such happy little bundles of fun (when they're not screaming the house down and driving you insane!) is heartbreaking, that two kids could erase that joy for his family for whatever reason they came up with is tragic.
I remember ‘losing’ my 3 year old daughter in Asda for about 30 seconds, and the panic/terror that hit me so quickly was horrendous. I had instant visions of those two little b
ds leading James out of the door and I was already running through my mind what I would do if I found someone, anyone, anywhere near my little girl. This was about 14 years agoShe was just the other side of a huge pile of boxes.... I always stressed to her never to walk off, ever, and always hold my hand or the trolley when we were shopping.
Regardless of the "give me 10 mins in a room with them both" stuff, its very clear that they should both still be in prison.
I don't think I'd want the state to kill them in a santised simple way like how they put down my dog via lethal injection, as its too kind.
I think the people that should be saying they want to kill them should be James's family understandably.
For me I just think they should be locked up still.
I don't think I'd want the state to kill them in a santised simple way like how they put down my dog via lethal injection, as its too kind.
I think the people that should be saying they want to kill them should be James's family understandably.
For me I just think they should be locked up still.
Granfondo said:
Very sad documentary and that author tt sticking up for those monsters is sickening along with the snowflakes on here!
If you read a little more carefully you'll find the "Snowflakes" posting on here aren't defending Venables' actions at all. What they are defending is the right of any citizen, no matter who they are or what they've done not to be set upon by a vacuous mob of vigilante morons whipped into a mindless frenzy by sentimental, self-righteous populist garbage spewed out by the media.t sticking up for those monsters is sickening along with the snowflakes on here!The entire thread has been dominated by individual champions of the people who relish the thought of Venables being ripped limb from limb in the street and that viewpoint makes them no better than him. An eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth knee-jerk reaction belongs in the Bible or infant school playground and has absolutely no place in grown-up world.
What do you think might happen if that vigilante mindset persists and a blurry picture of Venables appears on social media and then somebody who is dressed and looks vaguely similar walks past a hard of thinking bunch of idiots who've been in the pub all day?
If you don't like the law or the way it works then petition for change. Instead of just beating the s
t out of somebody if anybody feels strongly enough to take action the intelligent solution is to put together a reasoned case for change and get audience for it. I’m one of those leftie snowflakes, apparently. On PH I’m fine with that description given the type of people on PH that throw the phrase around.
I agree with a Jaguar Steve and absolutely disagree with vigilante justice. However I also believe that he should never be allowed to be free again. He’s repeatedly proven himself to be wrong to the core. I’d go as far as to say I’m fine with him being killed but I want the state to do it, not some mouth breathing savages.
I genuinely pity the police tasked with his protection. It must be a soul destroying job. When he first got caught with child porn he’d got pissed and revealed his identity. He called his “handler” who came out to his home to find him trying to destroy a hard drive. You’re protecting scum and then you find out he’s into kiddie porn? I’d be applying for a transfer, sharpish.
I agree with a Jaguar Steve and absolutely disagree with vigilante justice. However I also believe that he should never be allowed to be free again. He’s repeatedly proven himself to be wrong to the core. I’d go as far as to say I’m fine with him being killed but I want the state to do it, not some mouth breathing savages.
I genuinely pity the police tasked with his protection. It must be a soul destroying job. When he first got caught with child porn he’d got pissed and revealed his identity. He called his “handler” who came out to his home to find him trying to destroy a hard drive. You’re protecting scum and then you find out he’s into kiddie porn? I’d be applying for a transfer, sharpish.
When someone uses the word 'snowflake', they look foolish as they're making a crude generalisation and ultimately attacking the person rather than the argument. Personally, I'd be embarrassed to write that, or "triggered" etc etc.
There are a few issues here. amongst them it's how we treat children who commit serious crimes. One poster above suggests a 25 years (so far) of detention even though adults generally serve less for murder.
Another is how to treat Venables. He's shown he has continued to offend into adulthood so the 'hard line' view is, in my opinion, more justified.
The vigilante stuff is silly.
There are a few issues here. amongst them it's how we treat children who commit serious crimes. One poster above suggests a 25 years (so far) of detention even though adults generally serve less for murder.
Another is how to treat Venables. He's shown he has continued to offend into adulthood so the 'hard line' view is, in my opinion, more justified.
The vigilante stuff is silly.
Jaguar steve said:
Granfondo said:
Very sad documentary and that author tt sticking up for those monsters is sickening along with the snowflakes on here!
If you read a little more carefully you'll find the "Snowflakes" posting on here aren't defending Venables' actions at all. What they are defending is the right of any citizen, no matter who they are or what they've done not to be set upon by a vacuous mob of vigilante morons whipped into a mindless frenzy by sentimental, self-righteous populist garbage spewed out by the media.t sticking up for those monsters is sickening along with the snowflakes on here!The entire thread has been dominated by individual champions of the people who relish the thought of Venables being ripped limb from limb in the street and that viewpoint makes them no better than him. An eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth knee-jerk reaction belongs in the Bible or infant school playground and has absolutely no place in grown-up world.
What do you think might happen if that vigilante mindset persists and a blurry picture of Venables appears on social media and then somebody who is dressed and looks vaguely similar walks past a hard of thinking bunch of idiots who've been in the pub all day?
If you don't like the law or the way it works then petition for change. Instead of just beating the s
t out of somebody if anybody feels strongly enough to take action the intelligent solution is to put together a reasoned case for change and get audience for it. Given what has been coming out about Venables, and his recent convictions, it turns out he has been living and working within walking distance of my parents house.
Now I'm sure they can handle themselves, but where they live is full of young families and there are a lot of anxious people around there at the moment. His identity is now an open secret in the area where he was living, and it's not too hard to find out for people outside of the locality
Yes, he's supposed to have lifelong anonymity, but the practical logistics of that is heavily dependent on him trying to act like a normal human, which he doesn't seem capable of.
I don't agree with the lynching, either now, nor as a 10 year old kid, but I still believe he was released way too soon before it could be established if he had truly been rehabilitated or reformed. There are plenty of other psychopaths and the like already serving whole life terms, another one shouldn't put a significant strain on the system.
Now I'm sure they can handle themselves, but where they live is full of young families and there are a lot of anxious people around there at the moment. His identity is now an open secret in the area where he was living, and it's not too hard to find out for people outside of the locality
Yes, he's supposed to have lifelong anonymity, but the practical logistics of that is heavily dependent on him trying to act like a normal human, which he doesn't seem capable of.
I don't agree with the lynching, either now, nor as a 10 year old kid, but I still believe he was released way too soon before it could be established if he had truly been rehabilitated or reformed. There are plenty of other psychopaths and the like already serving whole life terms, another one shouldn't put a significant strain on the system.
La Liga said:
When someone uses the word 'snowflake', they look foolish as they're making a crude generalisation and ultimately attacking the person rather than the argument. Personally, I'd be embarrassed to write that, or "triggered" etc etc.
There are a few issues here. amongst them it's how we treat children who commit serious crimes. One poster above suggests a 25 years (so far) of detention even though adults generally serve less for murder.
Another is how to treat Venables. He's shown he has continued to offend into adulthood so the 'hard line' view is, in my opinion, more justified.
The vigilante stuff is silly.
Agree. The questions of how you treat children who have committed terrible crimes - which should be about rehabilitation if possible - and how you treat the adult who committed the crime as a child and is clearly not rehabilitated - are different. I would be less concerned if he had been caught committing fraud or shoplifting or something, but given the original crime and the fact that he appears to be a paedophile and has committed related offences to me suggests that rehabilitation has failed and his licence should be recalled, indefinitely. There are a few issues here. amongst them it's how we treat children who commit serious crimes. One poster above suggests a 25 years (so far) of detention even though adults generally serve less for murder.
Another is how to treat Venables. He's shown he has continued to offend into adulthood so the 'hard line' view is, in my opinion, more justified.
The vigilante stuff is silly.
I get why people react like they do with talk of revenge and killing, its understandable to a degree, but to actually take it upon yourself to kill someone and see the carnage of actually beating someone to death, to be a part of that and then not be haunted by it must be pretty impossible for anyone calling themselves civilized in the first place.
I say this as someone who has read my late Grandfathers diary that no one knew existed till his death and a clear out of stuff.... he always talked to us as kids about how he 'killed those Germans'..... truth is he was haunted by it, he recalls in his diary about killing 'boys' like himself and the destruction and carnage and the smell of death of fallen comrades etc...
I think it would be or should be a lot harder than we like to think to kill someone, whoever and whatever they have done as we should be wired up right in the first place..
Even those tasked with killing in combat good v evil and police marksmen will soul search.....
But if it makes someone feel a bit better then fair enough...but i doubt many would actually beat a human to death with their bare hands.... it does sound good on an internet forum though.. but utterly pointless as those saying it would not actually do it....
It's sounding off.
I can't believe though we live in a world where JV and RT live at large, it boggles me why they are not in prison still...
I say this as someone who has read my late Grandfathers diary that no one knew existed till his death and a clear out of stuff.... he always talked to us as kids about how he 'killed those Germans'..... truth is he was haunted by it, he recalls in his diary about killing 'boys' like himself and the destruction and carnage and the smell of death of fallen comrades etc...
I think it would be or should be a lot harder than we like to think to kill someone, whoever and whatever they have done as we should be wired up right in the first place..
Even those tasked with killing in combat good v evil and police marksmen will soul search.....
But if it makes someone feel a bit better then fair enough...but i doubt many would actually beat a human to death with their bare hands.... it does sound good on an internet forum though.. but utterly pointless as those saying it would not actually do it....
It's sounding off.
I can't believe though we live in a world where JV and RT live at large, it boggles me why they are not in prison still...
Edited by ape x on Friday 9th February 13:21
La Liga said:
There are a few issues here. amongst them it's how we treat children who commit serious crimes.
"There are 10 year olds, and then there are 10 year olds".
Don't confuse these two with anything approaching "normal".
Did you know that on the morning of his arrest Thompson had revisited the scene and laid flowers at the memorial to James Bulger ? Possibly a further attempt to cover his tracks, or maybe just sick .... it certainly wasn't out of remorse.
Despite the tears during his interviews he was descibed by the detectives as being blase about it all - contrary to what the other documentary on Monday said.
"Streetwise" (for a 10 year old) in the extreme. With "a look of pure evil".
It was an exceptional crime. The punishment should fit the crime. 8 years in "secure accommodation doesn't cut it.
Denise Fergus feels that Venables and Thompson have been rewarded for their crime.
I can see where she's coming from.
Edited by Red 4 on Friday 9th February 13:34
The case shouldn't be continually re-publicised and should be laid firmly to rest. I'd moderately agree with the judges and their judgement though I'd strongly question whether a guilty verdict of murder was the correct one in the first place. Children of ten years old cannot be held criminally responsible. No adult person is the same individual they were as a child of ten years old, thus interests of the general public to identify the (now adult) perpetrators is ridiculous.
I still find it hard to believe anybody could see fit to release them. Maybe the same sort of odd apologist mentality that is letting this Worboy character out of jail, though I can even begin to imagine what goes through their head when making such decisions.
And there was that cretin who argued and fought for the release of Myra Hindley for years.....
Red 4 said:
As the Senior Investigating Officer said on the programme last night;
"There are 10 year olds, and then there are 10 year olds".
Don't confuse these two with anything approaching "normal".
Did you know that on the morning of his arrest Thompson had revisited the scene and laid flowers at the memorial to James Bulger ? Possibly a further attempt to cover his tracks, or maybe just sick .... it certainly wasn't out of remorse.
Despite the tears during his interviews he was descibed by the detectives as being blase about it all - contrary to what the other documentary on Monday said.
"Streetwise" (for a 10 year old) in the extreme. With "a look of pure evil".
It was an exceptional crime. The punishment should fit the crime. 8 years in "secure accommodation doesn't cut it.
Denise Fergus feels that Venables and Thompson have been rewarded for their crime.
I can see where she's coming from.
Putting Venables's adult offending to one side, what is 'justice' in terms of Thompson? "There are 10 year olds, and then there are 10 year olds".
Don't confuse these two with anything approaching "normal".
Did you know that on the morning of his arrest Thompson had revisited the scene and laid flowers at the memorial to James Bulger ? Possibly a further attempt to cover his tracks, or maybe just sick .... it certainly wasn't out of remorse.
Despite the tears during his interviews he was descibed by the detectives as being blase about it all - contrary to what the other documentary on Monday said.
"Streetwise" (for a 10 year old) in the extreme. With "a look of pure evil".
It was an exceptional crime. The punishment should fit the crime. 8 years in "secure accommodation doesn't cut it.
Denise Fergus feels that Venables and Thompson have been rewarded for their crime.
I can see where she's coming from.
He was going to be released at some point. What numerical figure magically becomes 'justice'? 8 years? 16 years (average for UK murder IIRC), 20? At any point below having them incarcerated for their whole lives one can make the argument based on the severity of the crime it's 'not enough'.
King Herald said:
I still find it hard to believe anybody could see fit to release them. Maybe the same sort of odd apologist mentality that is letting this Worboy character out of jail, though I can even begin to imagine what goes through their head when making such decisions.
What's the alternative? Is it to keep a 10 year old detained / in prison until they die? That doesn't happen to most adult murderers.
La Liga said:
What's the alternative? Is it to keep a 10 year old detained / in prison until they die?
That doesn't happen to most adult murderers.
What were they locked up for though? That is the question. I doubt it was for punishment. And if it was for ‘rehabilitation’ then at some stage someone has to decide that they are rehabilitated and are fit for release, as they are now normal human beings. You would have to be a brave person to make that decision. And obviously they got it wrong with Venables. That doesn't happen to most adult murderers.
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