UN Workers 'Beheaded' In Afghan Koran Protest

[Bill]

Perra said:

Again even you didn't understand what I said, I said it's fine to say whatever you want, it doesn't mean I have to agree with it though.

To be fair it wasn't the best constructed paragraph I've read

To my mind the quote you've paraphrased ("I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it") doesn't mean you can go out to be offensive.

[carmonk]

Bill said:

Godzuki said:

*sigh Again, the offense isn't the issue. We can all be as offended as we want by the poppies, or the Quran burnings. We have every right to say;

"hey, those guys are numpties, and they probably smell like sprouts",

but that's not the issue, is it? The issue is, and I think I may have mentioned this before, when people get offended, they do NOT have the right to go on a mental, at all, no matter how emotional they may be. People have every right to wave a counter placard, or organise a counter demonstration, or write a strongly worded letter to an MP. Where the 2 cultures seem to differ is that

1) One gets quite angry, and says so.
2) The other behead people, and go on rampages en masse, issuing death threats, fatwas, and generally going far too mental about the whole thing. (See Rushdie, danish cartoons, Quran burning)

Now, do you understand the real issue, and not the 'well, those people were offended too" issue. They are different animals entirely.

Agreed, absolutely. But do you really think that if the BiB weren't there to protect them the poppy burners wouldn't have been on the receiving end of a right kicking.

There's a big difference between someone getting a punch when they shout obscenities in someone else's face to the planned and popularly supported murders committed in the name of Islam.

[Godzuki]

Video regarding the Blasphemy UN resolution that was recently dropped by the islamic entities, in exchange for a seeking for a resolution regarding criticism of religion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n53-3QnhxZk

Hitchens and Hounas talk about freedom of speech after cartoonist protests.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7aS7m3odqI&fea...

Edited by Godzuki on Thursday 14th April 17:31

[ge0rge]

Mermaid said:

Ban all religions or tax it out of existence.

Edited by Mermaid on Saturday 2nd April 18:29

Short and sweet. But i dont have a problem with this. You could 'debate' the whole thing till you turn blue or you could do soemthing to rid the planet of the tyranny of organised religion, but then the system will have to think of some other ways to control the people !

[Bill]

Godzuki said:

Video regarding the Blasphemy UN resolution that was recently dropped by the islamic entities, in exchange for a seeking for a resolution regarding criticism of religion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n53-3QnhxZk

Hitchens and Hounas talk about freedom of speech after cartoonist protests.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7aS7m3odqI&fea...

Is there a resume anywhere? My sound is on the blink.

[Godzuki]

Bill said:

Is there a resume anywhere? My sound is on the blink.

A resume?

here's a link to the "defamation of religion' resolution that is still trying to be put through as a binding reolution

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation_of_religio...

Edited by Godzuki on Thursday 14th April 17:44

[Perra]

Bill said:

Perra said:

Again even you didn't understand what I said, I said it's fine to say whatever you want, it doesn't mean I have to agree with it though.

To be fair it wasn't the best constructed paragraph I've read

To my mind the quote you've paraphrased ("I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it") doesn't mean you can go out to be offensive.

Haha you bd, my English is well good innit!

That's the thing, people get offended all the time, I disagree with religion in so many ways, my mum is religious and I feel so weird whenever I talk to her about it, this is because I do not want to offend her at all, and her whole life view may change if I try and persuade her she hasn't really got any proof.

Last time I spoke to her she basically just said she wasn't a scientist and what I was talking about was too complicated.

And my heart sank and I felt really bad for making her feel bad.

However if I made a video on the net explaining my reasons why religion is bullst, people can decide to listen. It's fine, if they are offended, then thats fine too, they decided to watch.

ge0rge said:

Mermaid said:

Ban all religions or tax it out of existence.

Edited by Mermaid on Saturday 2nd April 18:29

Short and sweet. But i dont have a problem with this. You could 'debate' the whole thing till you turn blue or you could do soemthing to rid the planet of the tyranny of organised religion, but then the system will have to think of some other ways to control the people !

Hopefully in the future, with enough education, we don't need to be controlled or told what to do, instead we have information and we use logic and reason to decide what is right for us.

Recreational drugs to me are an example of this. But that's a different matter!

[Bill]

Perra said:

However if I made a video on the net explaining my reasons why religion is bullst, people can decide to listen. It's fine, if they are offended, then thats fine too, they decided to watch.

That, IMO, is what freedom of speech is for. To express yourself without fear of censure. The bloke burning the Koran isn't expressing himself, he's trying to get a rise.

[carmonk]

Bill said:

Perra said:

However if I made a video on the net explaining my reasons why religion is bullst, people can decide to listen. It's fine, if they are offended, then thats fine too, they decided to watch.

That, IMO, is what freedom of speech is for. To express yourself without fear of censure. The bloke burning the Koran isn't expressing himself, he's trying to get a rise.

I can't speak for him and I'm not speaking up for him as a person but I'd say he was trying to make a very valid point.

[Perra]

Bill said:

Perra said:

However if I made a video on the net explaining my reasons why religion is bullst, people can decide to listen. It's fine, if they are offended, then thats fine too, they decided to watch.

That, IMO, is what freedom of speech is for. To express yourself without fear of censure. The bloke burning the Koran isn't expressing himself, he's trying to get a rise.

Okay here's one for you, the Phelps family who protest against 'Faaaags'? Are they okay in your view? They are fine in my view, even though they are trying to get a rise. Obviosuly I don't agree with brainwashing the kids etc. but ya know, maybe PH can rid the world of child abuse too.

Bill by teh way I forgot to mention, the point in burning a Qu'ran is to demonstrate the level of reaction from Muslims. To show how primitive/barbaric they can be maybe?

[Godzuki]

Bill said:

That, IMO, is what freedom of speech is for. To express yourself without fear of censure. The bloke burning the Koran isn't expressing himself, he's trying to get a rise.

No, he's making a point, and that poiit was very well demonstrated by the violent reaction across the Muslim world.

[Countdown]

Perra said:

Bill said:

Perra said:

However if I made a video on the net explaining my reasons why religion is bullst, people can decide to listen. It's fine, if they are offended, then thats fine too, they decided to watch.

That, IMO, is what freedom of speech is for. To express yourself without fear of censure. The bloke burning the Koran isn't expressing himself, he's trying to get a rise.

Okay here's one for you, the Phelps family who protest against 'Faaaags'? Are they okay in your view? They are fine in my view, even though they are trying to get a rise. Obviosuly I don't agree with brainwashing the kids etc. but ya know, maybe PH can rid the world of child abuse too.

Bill by teh way I forgot to mention, the point in burning a Qu'ran is to demonstrate the level of reaction from Muslims. To show how primitive/barbaric they can be maybe?

Perra - why do you think its acceptable for the Phelps family to be deliberately offensive to Homosexuals? If they have a point to make then by all means make it through constructive debate.

It seems somewhat disingenuous to elicit a reaction by being deliberately offensive and then show mock horror/surprise when you get the reaction you hoped for.

Like I said earlier, if you deliberately set out to insult somebody or something that somebody else cares about, (be it religion, family, pet hamster, whatever) then you will, in all likelihood, get an adverse reaction. For intelligent people it's possible to make a fair point without being deliberately offensive.

[Perra]

Countdown said:

Perra - why do you think its acceptable for the Phelps family to be deliberately offensive to Homosexuals? If they have a point to make then by all means make it through constructive debate.

It seems somewhat disingenuous to elicit a reaction by being deliberately offensive and then show mock horror/surprise when you get the reaction you hoped for.

Like I said earlier, if you deliberately set out to insult somebody or something that somebody else cares about, (be it religion, family, pet hamster, whatever) then you will, in all likelihood, get an adverse reaction. For intelligent people it's possible to make a fair point without being deliberately offensive.

Yeah you are right, but it's a fine line.

So I genuinly don't think it's okay to do the 'fag' protest outside of soldiers funerals because it's aimed directly at the funeral precession. So obviously they should be asked to leave by the police, or escourted away.

But what I'm about to say is a fine line that I'm not entirely sure about. If they are just protesting outside say a University, doing the standard you are all going to hell and we hate gays act. Now that obviously annoys me and they are doing it just to annoy me, but I still think they should be allowed to stay there because it's just their opinion and they aren't actually being physical, overly aggressive or destroying anything etc.

It's a tough one, maybe I need to think about it a bit more. Can I ask the audience?

[Muntu]

Some good points from Andrew Klavan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedd...