CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 5)

[bodhi]

egor110 said:

paulw123 said:

MikeT66 said:

bodhi said:

Well, considering the current strategy appears to be doing the sum total of FA to protect the vulnerable, as witnesses in the number of (still) ongoing admissions from care homes, and infections being picked up in hospital, maybe we could actually try that without locking up the healthy?

If I was in charge the guidance would be:

Wash your hands
Respect personal space
Stay home if you are ill

And that's it. Operationally I would be looking at treating nursing homes like Oil Rigs, with staff doing 3 weeks on/3 weeks off - and financially rewarded for that. Tighten up infection control in hospital - the Germans seemed pretty good at this so start by asking them how they did it, and offer full sick pay from Day 1 of illness a la Sweden. Offer furlough to those on the shielding list, bring in rapid tests at airports, and lower the PCR threshold so we are finding infectious people, rather than any old crap. Restrict gatherings to 30 until the 2nd ripple has gone.

I'd also look seriously at SAGE and get some opposing views on there - I dunno maybe some clinical immunologists would be a start - and get rid of the influence of people with no real qualifications in the area of infectious diseases - Ferguson, Michie, Sridhar, I'm looking in your direction here. Make sure the general public have ALL of the information so they can make their own risk assessments.

Can you run for PM, please? We have a used knackered one that doesn't work properly anymore.

Seconded, our one conned the electorate into thinking he actually had a backbone and wasn’t just a corrupt wet blanket.

Re your care home staff doing 3 weeks on 3 off , that would end up with the spouse needing the same time off work to look after the kids.

Care home staff are currently tested weekly thats more than nhs staff , the residents are tested monthly .

Hardly the most insurmountable problem, quite easy for the kids to go to school / nursery, and if these aren't available, the Government can step in.

[Boringvolvodriver]

amgmcqueen said:

This isn't living.

Yup - but they can’t see it for some reason. And yes, it is becoming political, especially on the Guardian where the common theme is to attack the Tories and if you put anything else against lockdown then you are accused of being a Tory!

Funny old world that we are in.

[Earthdweller]

I had a great catch up this morning with a very good old friend by phone ( as we can’t meet up due to restrictions )

Discussion came round to how mad the world is and he mentioned that his wife, who is a psychiatric nurse that heads up a community mental health team has never known it to be so busy .. they are absolutely run off their feet and can’t cope with the referrals and supporting those already on their books

A lot of her work is amongst the rural elderly population who suffer from isolation normally, but he said that problems caused by isolation, job losses, depression, anxiety, suicide ( and attempts) etc have risen massively across all age groups

[Janluke]

From the BBC Scotland site this morning

NHS Lothian staff 'worried' as Covid ward already full

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-e...

A local who's a nurse at this hospital tells me the ward they're talking about has 8 beds

[Pupbelly]

Can someone ask the government a direct question - at what point does this all stop? What is the indicator that 'they' say "ok back to normal"?

This faff will potentially go on for years as goalposts keep getting moved, figures massaged, the media stirring up more bullst.

What is the feckin' end game?? Straight answer please Mr Government!!

[grumbledoak]

Pupbelly said:

Can someone ask the government a direct question - at what point does this all stop? What is the indicator that 'they' say "ok back to normal"?

This faff will potentially go on for years as goalposts keep getting moved, figures massaged, the media stirring up more bullst.

What is the feckin' end game?? Straight answer please Mr Government!!

Wait two more weeks.

[Alucidnation]

Janluke said:

From the BBC Scotland site this morning

NHS Lothian staff 'worried' as Covid ward already full

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-e...

A local who's a nurse at this hospital tells me the ward they're talking about has 8 beds

And if they are all in use, they would be full, no?

[Stay in Bed Instead]

Pupbelly said:

Can someone ask the government a direct question - at what point does this all stop? What is the indicator that 'they' say "ok back to normal"?

This faff will potentially go on for years as goalposts keep getting moved, figures massaged, the media stirring up more bullst.

What is the feckin' end game?? Straight answer please Mr Government!!

There is currently no plan to stop until we have a vaccine.

[monkfish1]

Pupbelly said:

Can someone ask the government a direct question - at what point does this all stop? What is the indicator that 'they' say "ok back to normal"?

This faff will potentially go on for years as goalposts keep getting moved, figures massaged, the media stirring up more bullst.

What is the feckin' end game?? Straight answer please Mr Government!!

Did you not see the 5 level system they came out with earlier in the year (as distinct from the 3 tier restriction bks)? as shown in this link. https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-what-the-uk...

Number 1 is as we were last year. Number 1 is not achievable, ever. Therefore, by logical extrapolation, it will go on forever. There will never be "ok go back to normal".

[alangla]

Alucidnation said:

Janluke said:

From the BBC Scotland site this morning

NHS Lothian staff 'worried' as Covid ward already full

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-e...

A local who's a nurse at this hospital tells me the ward they're talking about has 8 beds

And if they are all in use, they would be full, no?

Hardly relevant given they're part of NHS Lothian, same as the Western General, Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh etc etc. One significant crash on the M8 would fill that ITU in one go.

Read this story this morning & it read like the classic BBC scare story. Hospital full - tick. Young patient - tick, Staff concerned about stuff they might see in the street - tick

Pretty sure there's been an edit done as I'm convinced I saw an earlier version of it with a still of the reporter standing right next to a member of hospital staff holding a microphone, not a hint of social distancing.

Edit - found it - https://twitter.com/BBCGaryR/status/13184422536485...

Edited by alangla on Tuesday 20th October 13:36

[tigamilla]

chrisgtx said:

There’s a pretty awful article on RT wanting a harder lockdown.
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/503720-london-lockdown-ti...
And there we are, ‘your lifestyle and livelihood aren’t worth a single person dying’
We have truly lost perspective, balance, and maths.
Fear has overcome intelligence.

That's hilarious given Russia and it's people seem to have actually embraced a more balanced approach than most European countries... How unthinking are these UK journalists?!

https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-russia-restricti...

[monkfish1]

Stay in Bed Instead said:

Pupbelly said:

Can someone ask the government a direct question - at what point does this all stop? What is the indicator that 'they' say "ok back to normal"?

This faff will potentially go on for years as goalposts keep getting moved, figures massaged, the media stirring up more bullst.

What is the feckin' end game?? Straight answer please Mr Government!!

There is currently no plan to stop until we have a vaccine.

Incorrect. See my post above.

[SS2.]

Pupbelly said:

Can someone ask the government a direct question - at what point does this all stop? What is the indicator that 'they' say "ok back to normal"?

This faff will potentially go on for years as goalposts keep getting moved, figures massaged, the media stirring up more bullst.

What is the feckin' end game?? Straight answer please Mr Government!!

Hancock's stock response - 'this is divisive talk and I won't stand for it'.

[Matt_N]

tigamilla said:

chrisgtx said:

There’s a pretty awful article on RT wanting a harder lockdown.
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/503720-london-lockdown-ti...
And there we are, ‘your lifestyle and livelihood aren’t worth a single person dying’
We have truly lost perspective, balance, and maths.
Fear has overcome intelligence.

That's hilarious given Russia and it's people seem to have actually embraced a more balanced approach than most European countries... How unthinking are these UK journalists?!

https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-russia-restricti...

Dear god, that RT article is bonkers.

[Boringvolvodriver]

SS2. said:

Hancock's stock response - 'this is divisive talk and I won't stand for it'.

Very good - sadly that is the reason we are f@@@ed. Ask a straight question and get a nonsense answer.

See the response he gave to John Redwood who asked a similar question. Reply was along the lines of “when lockdowns happen, cases go down and when we come out of lockdown, cases go up” Fantastic insight.

The lyrics of Blockbuster by Sweet are quite apt!

[TheDrBrian]

rover 623gsi said:

dundarach said:

EddieSteadyGo said:

I realise that is the most likely explanation. But what proportion of these people who are dying at home could be saved by visiting the hospital?

But that's not the point, as I mentioned above.

It's UNIVERSAL health care, or we start making decision about who we treat....

but we've always made decisions about who we treat - it's not a new thing

But now we’re pissing away billions from the under 45 bracket to keep the 84+ bracket alive for another 12 months.

[R Mutt]

bodhi said:

If I was in charge the guidance would be:

Wash your hands
Respect personal space
Stay home if you are ill

The trouble is you could do a lot more than that with minimal social or economic impact but could argue that this cost of physical distancing in pubs and offices with restrictions of waiting and the bar and removal of tables and desks outweighs the benefits because like anything else no one can really evidence the benefits.

IMO the libertarian, common sense approach you outline is inadequate, both in terms of prevention and the degree of adherence.

[Pupbelly]

Stay in Bed Instead said:

Pupbelly said:

Can someone ask the government a direct question - at what point does this all stop? What is the indicator that 'they' say "ok back to normal"?

This faff will potentially go on for years as goalposts keep getting moved, figures massaged, the media stirring up more bullst.

What is the feckin' end game?? Straight answer please Mr Government!!

There is currently no plan to stop until we have a vaccine.

There will never be a successful vaccine though, if it was possible then things like flu and the common cold would not exist, we can't eradicate those with a vaccine so expecting one for Covid is like p1ssing in the wind!!

[anonymous-user]

GroundZero said:

garyhun said:

Zoobeef said:

GroundZero said:

During the summer, some imply that the NHS was sat doing nothing as the infections dropped. It was in fact still operating at close to maximum capacity, as it always does, just that other treatments became open whilst the covid treatments dropped. Its a constant balance based on demand and severity.

Absolute pure and raw bullst.

Indeed, it is.

Do people actually believe the crap they post or is it a deliberate attempt to hide the truth?

Well you guys continue to believe what you want and I'll do the same on my side. I don't think we are going to meet in the middle on this any time soon.

It’s got nothing to do with belief; it’s do so with facts.

You’d prefer to continue to believe something that is blatantly not true rather than educate yourself and change your view? That’s incredibly stupid and sad.

As Mark Twain said, “It’s Easier to Fool People Than to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled”.

[TheJimi]

Pupbelly said:

Stay in Bed Instead said:

Pupbelly said:

Can someone ask the government a direct question - at what point does this all stop? What is the indicator that 'they' say "ok back to normal"?

This faff will potentially go on for years as goalposts keep getting moved, figures massaged, the media stirring up more bullst.

What is the feckin' end game?? Straight answer please Mr Government!!

There is currently no plan to stop until we have a vaccine.

There will never be a successful vaccine though, if it was possible then things like flu and the common cold would not exist, we can't eradicate those with a vaccine so expecting one for Covid is like p1ssing in the wind!!

I'd love to see someone like you say that to the faces of, for example, those leading the Oxford team and watch you try to maintain an argument in the face of their knowledge.