Snap General Election?
Discussion
El stovey said:
p1stonhead said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
The people who worry me are those who seem to let all the flounce and floss of the election campaigns change, or sway the way they vote. Are people really that shallow, or dumb to believe the crap produced by all political parties in the run up to an election?
I always found it odd, that politicians promised the electorate the moon on a stick in their election campaigns, and thought why do they only promise all these wonderful free goodies in the run up to the election when they should have just introduced them during their terms of office. Everyone surely knows by now, that what people are promised by governments is rarely what they actually get.
Perhaps the various political parties do this thinking they can mop up the votes of the hard of thinking by offering the moon and the stars (all for free of course), whilst anyone who actually thought about the way they will vote in depth, would vote they way they intended to, in any case regardless of the crap produced in the various election campaigns.
None of the election campaign crap has had the slightest influence on the way I intend to vote.
I'm the opposite. People who vote one way because they always do are the ones who scare me. I always found it odd, that politicians promised the electorate the moon on a stick in their election campaigns, and thought why do they only promise all these wonderful free goodies in the run up to the election when they should have just introduced them during their terms of office. Everyone surely knows by now, that what people are promised by governments is rarely what they actually get.
Perhaps the various political parties do this thinking they can mop up the votes of the hard of thinking by offering the moon and the stars (all for free of course), whilst anyone who actually thought about the way they will vote in depth, would vote they way they intended to, in any case regardless of the crap produced in the various election campaigns.
None of the election campaign crap has had the slightest influence on the way I intend to vote.
You should vote which party speaks most to you at an election time and then try to hold them to account.
The conservatives are a completely different party than the conservatives of Thatcher, just as the Labour Party of Corbyn are completely different to the party of Blair.
dazwalsh said:
steveatesh said:
Labour want a "garden tax" which is apparently in the small print of their manifesto, or its proper term a Land Value Tax, of 3%
Well according to the Express anyway, not sure that a proper news outlet anymore but here's the link:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/810616/gene...
If true that would raise tax bills significantly, with an average annual tax bill of £3887 but a lot more in areas where house prices are high e.g. Over £17k for houses in Westminster.
Wonder if other media outlets pick it up.....
That is absurd, how has that remain hidden for so long?.Well according to the Express anyway, not sure that a proper news outlet anymore but here's the link:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/810616/gene...
If true that would raise tax bills significantly, with an average annual tax bill of £3887 but a lot more in areas where house prices are high e.g. Over £17k for houses in Westminster.
Wonder if other media outlets pick it up.....
Anyone who was wondering where the magic money tree was hidden should wonder no longer. If you are a property owner you will become the leaves of that tree. Rents for non-owners will also come into play so nobody will escape it.
IMHO it has remained hidden because a) it is suitably vague within the manifesto; b) the Tories have been busy costing it; and c) it is tactically being rolled out close to the election to provide maximum damage to Labour with little time to recover before the vote. Media interviewers must be queuing up to skewer Corbyn on this topic!
El stovey said:
turbobloke said:
El stovey said:
p1stonhead said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
The people who worry me are those who seem to let all the flounce and floss of the election campaigns change, or sway the way they vote. Are people really that shallow, or dumb to believe the crap produced by all political parties in the run up to an election?
I always found it odd, that politicians promised the electorate the moon on a stick in their election campaigns, and thought why do they only promise all these wonderful free goodies in the run up to the election when they should have just introduced them during their terms of office. Everyone surely knows by now, that what people are promised by governments is rarely what they actually get.
Perhaps the various political parties do this thinking they can mop up the votes of the hard of thinking by offering the moon and the stars (all for free of course), whilst anyone who actually thought about the way they will vote in depth, would vote they way they intended to, in any case regardless of the crap produced in the various election campaigns.
None of the election campaign crap has had the slightest influence on the way I intend to vote.
I'm the opposite. People who vote one way because they always do are the ones who scare me. I always found it odd, that politicians promised the electorate the moon on a stick in their election campaigns, and thought why do they only promise all these wonderful free goodies in the run up to the election when they should have just introduced them during their terms of office. Everyone surely knows by now, that what people are promised by governments is rarely what they actually get.
Perhaps the various political parties do this thinking they can mop up the votes of the hard of thinking by offering the moon and the stars (all for free of course), whilst anyone who actually thought about the way they will vote in depth, would vote they way they intended to, in any case regardless of the crap produced in the various election campaigns.
None of the election campaign crap has had the slightest influence on the way I intend to vote.
You should vote which party speaks most to you at an election time and then try to hold them to account.
The basis centred around which Party will do the least harm, this appears to be very close to what I and others have been saying in terms of the least worst option.
So, not regardless for PPP or me, since any occasion where the Tories look likely to cause more harm than an alternative i.e. another Party is the least worst option, then voting intentions will change. So far in my voting career I've never seen any Party other than the Conservatives as the least worst option, but that doesn't mean I forego all considerations and vote from habit.
It may be described as a habit by anyone wanting to misrepresent the reality of the situation, but that's more about how badly some other people are prepared to behave.
dazwalsh said:
steveatesh said:
Labour want a "garden tax" which is apparently in the small print of their manifesto, or its proper term a Land Value Tax, of 3%
Well according to the Express anyway, not sure that a proper news outlet anymore but here's the link:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/810616/gene...
If true that would raise tax bills significantly, with an average annual tax bill of £3887 but a lot more in areas where house prices are high e.g. Over £17k for houses in Westminster.
Wonder if other media outlets pick it up.....
That is absurd, how has that remain hidden for so long?.Well according to the Express anyway, not sure that a proper news outlet anymore but here's the link:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/810616/gene...
If true that would raise tax bills significantly, with an average annual tax bill of £3887 but a lot more in areas where house prices are high e.g. Over £17k for houses in Westminster.
Wonder if other media outlets pick it up.....
"You have a 'big' garden - you must be loaded- tax em to f
k"At least the conservatives social care proposal only applies the charge on the realised value of an asset, and only charges you based on the care you need and is deferred until after you are gone (meaning you don't have to struggle to raise the funds now).
Having a reasonable sized garden, my father in law would probably lose far more from a LVT than he would from the conservatives social care charges and as it would apply whilst he is still alive - he would probably struggle to pay it too as his income is quite low. Just one more bill for him to worry about in his twilight years.
I wonder how many pensioners are in a similar situation - having bought houses with decent gardens in the 1960s, would now struggle to pay Labour's LVT. Or will Labour do their usual trick of taxing something - then issuing tax credits (benefits by any other name). Thus bringing even more people further into the benefits fold and thus ensuring increased support for them in the future.
Edited by Moonhawk on Tuesday 30th May 10:35
p1stonhead said:
It'll never happen though. How many people could afford it? Probably not that many.
The Labour promise is to increase funding to local government. This will replace the Council Tax and has to draw in more funding than currently if that promise is to be kept. Therefore it will happen under Labour and everyone will end up paying a damn sight more. No more income tax for those earning under £80k but the local taxes are going to sky rocket no matter what you earn if you live anywhere but, perhaps, a houseboat (even a cave, if you live in one, will be liable to a LVT)!sidicks said:
PurpleAki said:
You've posted? some st before but even by your standards that's a corker!!
Once again the usual cherry-picked link, and then run away. t before but even by your standards that's a corker!!It's idiotic trolling 101.
Garvin said:
The 'introduction' to the Land Value Tax is contained on page 86 of the Labour manifesto with the words "we will initiate a review into reforming council tax and business rates and consider new options such as a land value tax, to ensure local government has sustainable funding for the long term". It is vague with no detail but the Tories have got their hands on the Labour plans from a paper produced from a thinktank chaired by Corby and McDonnell which has the 3% figure.
Anyone who was wondering where the magic money tree was hidden should wonder no longer. If you are a property owner you will become the leaves of that tree. Rents for non-owners will also come into play so nobody will escape it.
IMHO it has remained hidden because a) it is suitably vague within the manifesto; b) the Tories have been busy costing it; and c) it is tactically being rolled out close to the election to provide maximum damage to Labour with little time to recover before the vote. Media interviewers must be queuing up to skewer Corbyn on this topic!
As you say, form a queue and be careful running with skewers!Anyone who was wondering where the magic money tree was hidden should wonder no longer. If you are a property owner you will become the leaves of that tree. Rents for non-owners will also come into play so nobody will escape it.
IMHO it has remained hidden because a) it is suitably vague within the manifesto; b) the Tories have been busy costing it; and c) it is tactically being rolled out close to the election to provide maximum damage to Labour with little time to recover before the vote. Media interviewers must be queuing up to skewer Corbyn on this topic!
The Express, DT and the Mail picked up on this several hours ago, the Star about 1 hour ago and The Sun about 30 minutes ago according to timings on their articles. Nothing so far from the BBC or The Guardian - after the same amount of time looking online as per DT and the rest where the Garden Tax story is easy to locate.
Moonhawk said:
Yet another envy tax from Labour.
"You have a 'big' garden - you must be loaded- tax em to fk"
This would cost me something like an extra £4k per year in tax compared to council tax, this would have a significant impact on our lives."You have a 'big' garden - you must be loaded- tax em to f
k"On the other hand, the Conservatives want to destroy my profession if this is to be believed.
http://www.itcontractor.com/theresa-may-abolish-co...
Some choice I have in this election.
skahigh said:
Moonhawk said:
Yet another envy tax from Labour.
"You have a 'big' garden - you must be loaded- tax em to fk"
This would cost me something like an extra £4k per year in tax compared to council tax, this would have a significant impact on our lives."You have a 'big' garden - you must be loaded- tax em to f
k"On the other hand, the Conservatives want to destroy my profession if this is to be believed.
http://www.itcontractor.com/theresa-may-abolish-co...
Some choice I have in this election.
What would you say represents the least worst choice for the country as a whole?
skahigh said:
Moonhawk said:
Yet another envy tax from Labour.
"You have a 'big' garden - you must be loaded- tax em to fk"
This would cost me something like an extra £4k per year in tax compared to council tax, this would have a significant impact on our lives."You have a 'big' garden - you must be loaded- tax em to f
k"On the other hand, the Conservatives want to destroy my profession if this is to be believed.
http://www.itcontractor.com/theresa-may-abolish-co...
Some choice I have in this election.
turbobloke said:
skahigh said:
Moonhawk said:
Yet another envy tax from Labour.
"You have a 'big' garden - you must be loaded- tax em to fk"
This would cost me something like an extra £4k per year in tax compared to council tax, this would have a significant impact on our lives."You have a 'big' garden - you must be loaded- tax em to f
k"On the other hand, the Conservatives want to destroy my profession if this is to be believed.
http://www.itcontractor.com/theresa-may-abolish-co...
Some choice I have in this election.
What would you say represents the least worst choice for the country as a whole?
Pan Pan Pan said:
skahigh said:
Moonhawk said:
Yet another envy tax from Labour.
"You have a 'big' garden - you must be loaded- tax em to fk"
This would cost me something like an extra £4k per year in tax compared to council tax, this would have a significant impact on our lives."You have a 'big' garden - you must be loaded- tax em to f
k"On the other hand, the Conservatives want to destroy my profession if this is to be believed.
http://www.itcontractor.com/theresa-may-abolish-co...
Some choice I have in this election.
I don't think many people I know would vote against themselves for the good of the country.
p1stonhead said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
skahigh said:
Moonhawk said:
Yet another envy tax from Labour.
"You have a 'big' garden - you must be loaded- tax em to fk"
This would cost me something like an extra £4k per year in tax compared to council tax, this would have a significant impact on our lives."You have a 'big' garden - you must be loaded- tax em to f
k"On the other hand, the Conservatives want to destroy my profession if this is to be believed.
http://www.itcontractor.com/theresa-may-abolish-co...
Some choice I have in this election.
I don't think many people I know would vote against themselves for the good of the country.
Tories are for those who want to look after themselves where Labour is for those who want to be looked after. It's always been thus.
Problem is, we need more than ever to stand on our own two feet and show the rest of the world we aren't dependent on the rest of Europe. If we make a cock up of Brexit and end up on our arses, people will blame Brexit, not JC. Also, too many young people, who are finding things difficult, look to him for salvation. They don't remember how bad things were under Labour. Socialism/communism doesn't work.
Problem is, we need more than ever to stand on our own two feet and show the rest of the world we aren't dependent on the rest of Europe. If we make a cock up of Brexit and end up on our arses, people will blame Brexit, not JC. Also, too many young people, who are finding things difficult, look to him for salvation. They don't remember how bad things were under Labour. Socialism/communism doesn't work.
Pan Pan Pan said:
skahigh said:
Moonhawk said:
Yet another envy tax from Labour.
"You have a 'big' garden - you must be loaded- tax em to fk"
This would cost me something like an extra £4k per year in tax compared to council tax, this would have a significant impact on our lives."You have a 'big' garden - you must be loaded- tax em to f
k"On the other hand, the Conservatives want to destroy my profession if this is to be believed.
http://www.itcontractor.com/theresa-may-abolish-co...
Some choice I have in this election.
p1stonhead said:
I'm the opposite. People who vote one way because they always do are the ones who scare me.
You should vote which party speaks most to you at an election time and then try to hold them to account.
Why would you vote only on the basis of a few weeks before the election.You should vote which party speaks most to you at an election time and then try to hold them to account.
We have had nearly 2 years to assess Corbyn, more than that for some of his dream team (Abbott for one)
7 years to asses the record of the Conservatives in government (albeit 5 of those in coalition).
wormus said:
Tories are for those who want to look after themselves where Labour is for those who want to be looked after. It's always been thus.
But why is that put forward as the most desirable objective in a society where more people than ever need looking after by other people? Your children, your parents and grandparents and so on - should they just be left to look after themselves too?
And if they can't, should we just take the view that, well they had all the same opportunities as me, so tough luck if they don't make the best of it
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