Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. (Vol 5)

[Phud]

El stovey said:

What are you talking about?

I can or cannot on each flight make lots of decisions to save fuel or simply follow a flight plan.

I have pointed out and given many examples of these decisions. Some of those decisions will obviously involve asking for permission or getting cooperation from others, but the outcome will be the same. Plenty of those I mentioned don’t require permission and are not “SOP” as you claim.

You’ve clearly spouted some rubbish and are now trying to save face.

You don’t work for my airline and don’t fly the aircraft I fly to the destinations I operate to and as such don’t have a clue what I can do to save fuel each time I go to work.

Much of what you have stated is wrong. I was asked how I can “fly efficiently”. Even you must be able to see that a pilot in an airline can make a huge difference to the efficiency of the flight?

I have not spouted rubbish I have highlighted that you as a pilot cannot do what you want you need to ask.

No I don't work for your airline, very happy not too.

As an airline pilot, Ops will write your flight plan, you will be rostered to take certain trips and your cargo, human or otherwise will dictate what you can do to mitigate the risks when you ask. ATC will tell you what level you can fly, working and asking is all you can do, not decide and then act. Very few airports and LHR is not one allow full VFR approaches and not controlled landing, with holds you sit in a pattern, you again can ask, does not mean you get.

You fly within the parameters laid down, your do not have free range nor do you call the shots.

You support AGW, yet seem to think well if I fly for a living and mitigate the fuel that's fine, when to really support your viewpoint you should not fly, or use the internet. It's the same hypocrisy with Davos and celebrities flying around telling everybody else what to do.

[anonymous-user]

Phud said:

El stovey said:

What are you talking about?

I can or cannot on each flight make lots of decisions to save fuel or simply follow a flight plan.

I have pointed out and given many examples of these decisions. Some of those decisions will obviously involve asking for permission or getting cooperation from others, but the outcome will be the same. Plenty of those I mentioned don’t require permission and are not “SOP” as you claim.

You’ve clearly spouted some rubbish and are now trying to save face.

You don’t work for my airline and don’t fly the aircraft I fly to the destinations I operate to and as such don’t have a clue what I can do to save fuel each time I go to work.

Much of what you have stated is wrong. I was asked how I can “fly efficiently”. Even you must be able to see that a pilot in an airline can make a huge difference to the efficiency of the flight?

I have not spouted rubbish I have highlighted that you as a pilot cannot do what you want you need to ask.

No I don't work for your airline, very happy not too.

As an airline pilot, Ops will write your flight plan, you will be rostered to take certain trips and your cargo, human or otherwise will dictate what you can do to mitigate the risks when you ask. ATC will tell you what level you can fly, working and asking is all you can do, not decide and then act. Very few airports and LHR is not one allow full VFR approaches and not controlled landing, with holds you sit in a pattern, you again can ask, does not mean you get.

You fly within the parameters laid down, your do not have free range nor do you call the shots.

You support AGW, yet seem to think well if I fly for a living and mitigate the fuel that's fine, when to really support your viewpoint you should not fly, or use the internet. It's the same hypocrisy with Davos and celebrities flying around telling everybody else what to do.

More drivel.

Not every flight is into Heathrow. I can call operations and change my fuel plan or routing easily. I have given you loads of examples of decisions I can make to save fuel obviously some involve permission and cooperation and others don’t.

Please stop blagging now.

[PRTVR]

El stovey said:

Diderot said:

All sounds marvellous, but aviation is still one of the most environmentally damaging industries, so it won't stop the green loons coming after you and your industry. The only saving grace for you in the short term is that most of them enjoy jetting off to far flung places for their eco-junkets and fantasy festivals.

What do you think will happen?

Manufacturers are constantly developing more efficient aircraft and engines. Technology is constantly changing.

I was answering your question about how I can “fly efficiently” and explaining there was more that could be done than shutting down the engines as you suggested.

If someone had said to me they would try to remove petrol/diesel cars from the population, I would have said they were mad, but bit by bit we are being moved to do this,
aircraft are not immune from the same movement.

[Diderot]

gadgetmac said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again. You will never get these people to declare their knowledge or experience in any field.

You wouldn’t believe them if they did.

Indeed, how do you know that Stovey is really a pilot?

[gadgetmac]

Diderot said:

gadgetmac said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again. You will never get these people to declare their knowledge or experience in any field.

You wouldn’t believe them if they did.

Indeed, how do you know that Stovey is really a pilot?

That's a fair question but...

1. He had said he is

2. He had now opened the door to questioning on the technicalities of his trade in order to prove that claim

3. Why would he say he was doing something that at face value is so polluting?

I'm certainly not saying what I do...the outcry would be heard in India. LOL.

[anonymous-user]

PRTVR said:

If someone had said to me they would try to remove petrol/diesel cars from the population, I would have said they were mad, but bit by bit we are being moved to do this,
aircraft are not immune from the same movement.

They’re not banning cars though. As new technology arrives then that might be mandated but the laws are moving with technology.

First diesel then petrol then hybrid get banned then we’ll be banned from driving and it will be autonomous.

The same thing happens in aviation.

[Phud]

El stovey said:

More drivel.

Not every flight is into Heathrow. I can call operations and change my fuel plan or routing easily. I have given you loads of examples of decisions I can make to save fuel obviously some involve permission and cooperation and others don’t.

Please stop blagging now.

I never said every flight was into LHR, you decided that for some reason. I used LHR as an example where you as a pilot can not decide what to do but are control, mandated, same as controlled airspace where you spend most of you time.

No you have provided a lot of hot air as to how you can ask and see if they let you.

Not blagging, your normal response, please stop projecting and look at your position, you support AGW yet are not willing to alter your life, happy for taxes on air travel, when you produce more CO2 than the average person you have not stopped you claim you can make changes, when you cannot you can only ask permission to do and most of what you wrote is guff as you are under control.

So as for blagging, it is not I blagging.

[TTwiggy]

Just an observation from an amused thread watcher - if you're going to tell someone how they can and can't do their job, it's only reasonable that you declare your expertise in the field.

[anonymous-user]

Phud said:

El stovey said:

More drivel.

Not every flight is into Heathrow. I can call operations and change my fuel plan or routing easily. I have given you loads of examples of decisions I can make to save fuel obviously some involve permission and cooperation and others don’t.

Please stop blagging now.

I never said every flight was into LHR, you decided that for some reason. I used LHR as an example where you as a pilot can not decide what to do but are control, mandated, same as controlled airspace where you spend most of you time.

No you have provided a lot of hot air as to how you can ask and see if they let you.

Not blagging, your normal response, please stop projecting and look at your position, you support AGW yet are not willing to alter your life, happy for taxes on air travel, when you produce more CO2 than the average person you have not stopped you claim you can make changes, when you cannot you can only ask permission to do and most of what you wrote is guff as you are under control.

So as for blagging, it is not I blagging.

You quite clearly don’t know what you are talking about, why are you persisting with this?

If I have a routing and ask for a shortcut have I saved fuel?
If I ask for a visual approach instead of a procedure or vectors, have I saved fuel
If I ask for a new flight plan with a different alternate have I saved fuel?
If I am given a plan with extra contingency which I don’t need and don’t cary it, have I saved fuel
If I shut down one engine on taxi have I saved fuel
If I turn off the APU have I saved fuel
If I do a reduced thrust take off have I saved fuel
If I fly a constant descent approach have I saved fuel
If I decide not to tanker extra fuel to the destination, have I saved fuel
If I delay the start or pushback have I saved fuel

Plus ALL the other examples I gave earlier.

Some involve negotiating with air traffic some don’t but ALL require initiative and to be initiated by me. These are not SOPs and the ones requiring permission aren’t given without asking.

I haven’t told anyone how to live their life so I’m not a hypocrite.

I’m saving fuel all the time and aircraft haven’t been banned so I’m doing my bit. If I quit as you suggest, perhaps my replacement would be much less efficient.

[Phud]

El stovey said:

You quite clearly don’t know what you are talking about, why are you persisting with this?

If I have a routing and ask for a shortcut have I saved fuel?
If I ask for a visual approach instead of a procedure or vectors, have I saved fuel
If I ask for a new flight plan with a different alternate have I saved fuel?
If I am given a plan with extra contingency which I don’t need and don’t cary it, have I saved fuel
If I shut down one engine on taxi have I saved fuel
If I turn off the APU have I saved fuel
If I do a reduced thrust take off have I saved fuel
If I fly a constant descent approach have I saved fuel
If I decide not to tanker extra fuel to the destination, have I saved fuel
If I delay the start or pushback have I saved fuel

Plus ALL the other examples I gave earlier.

Some involve negotiating with air traffic some don’t but ALL require initiative and to be initiated by me. These are not SOPs and the ones requiring permission aren’t given without asking.

I haven’t told anyone how to live their life so I’m not a hypocrite.

I’m saving fuel all the time and aircraft haven’t been banned so I’m doing my bit. If I quit as you suggest, perhaps my replacement would be much less efficient.

Stovey all you do is try, through abuse, or claiming the person posting has no knowledge, I do in this subject. Can I be bothered to shout about it, no.

You can try to mitigate all you like, but as a pilot have very little control over what you are claiming. Again you can ask all you like if it suits others you will be allowed.

If you delay a start or miss a pushback, because as a pilot you want to, what happens?

[anonymous-user]

Phud said:

Stovey all you do is try, through abuse, or claiming the person posting has no knowledge, I do in this subject. Can I be bothered to shout about it, no.

You can try to mitigate all you like, but as a pilot have very little control over what you are claiming. Again you can ask all you like if it suits others you will be allowed.

If you delay a start or miss a pushback, because as a pilot you want to, what happens?

You’re blagging again. It won’t take you long to explain your expertise. You’ve wasted more time posting factually incorrect statements about how I and my airline and my aircraft operates.

I have a lot of control over how much fuel I can save.

It’s up to me how much I carry (as I have shown you) and I can decide to or decide not to try any of the many fuel saving techniques I have mentioned over the last few pages.

Regarding pushback, I can decide when to turn on the APU and I find out what time my slot is (if there is one) and what time they’ll let me take off and then if I reduce the time I’m at the holding point, I can save some fuel. If I have a slot delay, I might be able to get an earlier slot by contacting my operations.

This was my last transatlantic fuel flight plan.



I was given this so it’s the minimum I have to take and set by my company according to you? I can’t do anything about it? Wrong.

I was given EGCC (Manchester) as the first alternate due to it being windy in the south of UK. I told operations I only needed a closer alternate so saved almost 2T of fuel there.

Then there was loads of freight that didn’t turn up so I reduced the fuel again due to the lighter weight.

Just one sector saving over 2T of fuel by my own actions.

I also saved fuel by single engine taxing at the destination and flying an efficient approach.

All of these were done by me. Pilots can obviously make a huge difference to fuel savings in an airline. To suggest otherwise is quite clearly nonsense.

[gadgetmac]

TTwiggy said:

Just an observation from an amused thread watcher - if you're going to tell someone how they can and can't do their job, it's only reasonable that you declare your expertise in the field.

The embarrassment factor would have to be reckoned with.

Microsoft Flight Sim 2006 will only get you so far in these debates.

[Diderot]

gadgetmac said:

TTwiggy said:

Just an observation from an amused thread watcher - if you're going to tell someone how they can and can't do their job, it's only reasonable that you declare your expertise in the field.

The embarrassment factor would have to be reckoned with.

Microsoft Flight Sim 2006 will only get you so far in these debates.

Quite right TTwiggy. Over to you Gadgetmac .

[gadgetmac]

Diderot said:

gadgetmac said:

TTwiggy said:

Just an observation from an amused thread watcher - if you're going to tell someone how they can and can't do their job, it's only reasonable that you declare your expertise in the field.

The embarrassment factor would have to be reckoned with.

Microsoft Flight Sim 2006 will only get you so far in these debates.

Quite right TTwiggy. Over to you Gadgetmac .

As TTwiggy says "if you're going to tell someone how they can and can't do their job.."

Now who are the people doing that?

Oh, that would be the deniers

[anonymous-user]

Right everyone I’m off, hopefully someone found it interesting hearing about how pilots can save fuel on a flight.

Or you could assume Phud is right and we (who are in control of the aircraft) have very little influence on how much fuel gets used.

https://www.fastcompany.com/3061503/virgin-atlanti...

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 11th March 15:23

[zygalski]

You wouldn't think this thread could plummet any lower in terms of credibility, but somehow the Flat Earthers have managed it!
I think the youth call it being PWNED.

[gadgetmac]

zygalski said:

You wouldn't think this thread could plummet any lower in credibility, but somehow the Flat Earthers managed it!
I think the youth call it being PWNED.

I liked the one on the Renewables thread, that was just brilliant. A denier came on and told a bloke that goes into work everyday, sits at his desk and does exactly what they were taking about that he was doing it wrong- it was hilarious

[wc98]

Phud said:

You support AGW, yet seem to think well if I fly for a living and mitigate the fuel that's fine, when to really support your viewpoint you should not fly, or use the internet. It's the same hypocrisy with Davos and celebrities flying around telling everybody else what to do.

to be fair to el stovey i think his position is he supports the declared scientific position ,the one we get on the msm. he isn't really interested in the scientific debate more taking the piss out of people that don't believe the consensus as espoused by the bbc. i haven't once seen him preach about about cutting emissions or anyone, not least himself, altering their lifestyle to accommodate catastrophic anthropogenic global warming/climate change.

[turbobloke]

Maine Becomes The Most Recent Blue State To Reject A Carbon Tax

https://www.forbes.com/sites/patrickgleason/2019/0...

[JustALooseScrew]

El stovey said:

Right everyone I’m off

I never quite realised pilots had so much free time to post on PH.
It's been relentless over the past few weeks - I guess it's really really true, those planes really do fly themselves.