Israeli

[Countdown]

Grumfutock said:

did you count them when you so glibly dismissed them as rubbish?

Yes i did. You're the one that made the original assertion so can you prove it?

Or were you hoping that nobody would call you out on it?

[allnighter]

Grumfutock said:

allnighter said:

ays a man who did just that many times over in this thread! Don't preach what you cannot practice, hypocrite!

Grumfutock said:

Please do not bother to reply as I am really bored of your endless and crazy revisionism.

Using gifs is the sole dominion of the brainless as you have proved it many times on here. Well done for demonstrating how uneducated articulate you are.

[Grumfutock]

allnighter said:

sing gifs is the sole dominion of the brainless as you have proved it many times on here. Well done for demonstrating how uneducated articulate you are.

When you learn to read and stop replying then the gif's will stop. It really isn't hard to follow. It isn't complicated. It isn't for the sharp of mind, on the contrary, I have kept it simple so even the dull of wit can comprehend it.

Hmmmmm maybe not simple enough as you do seem to be struggling with it! OK I will make it simpler for you.

Failing this I could always draw it in crayon for you if you think that might help?


Please do not bother to reply

Edited by Grumfutock on Saturday 6th September 15:53

[Grumfutock]

Countdown said:

Grumfutock said:

did you count them when you so glibly dismissed them as rubbish?

Yes i did. You're the one that made the original assertion so can you prove it?

Or were you hoping that nobody would call you out on it?

Not at all old chap, more than ready for it.

http://www.warsintheworld.com/?page=static12582542...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed...

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/

Care to provide you list now please!

[Countdown]

Grumfutock said:

Not at all old chap, more than ready for it.

http://www.warsintheworld.com/?page=static12582542...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed...

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/

Care to provide you list now please!

Nice try.

I assumed you'd compared current conflicts to those in "modern history" to confirm that there were MORE going on now than "at any time in modern history".

Do you want to check and come back to me? Here's a hint - 1965-75 was a pretty busy time in terms of conflict - Vietnam, I do-Pakistan, and the various Israeli /Arab conflicts being the "main events". Admittedly nowhere near as important as some of the ones you linked to but some might consider it important?

I note you've included the Mexican drugs conflict to support your assertions. In which case don't forget to include the Richardsons and the Krays in your comparison.

p.s. Wouldn't it be easier just to admit that it was an off-the-cuff comment rather than thrash around like a ferret in a sack trying to prove it?

[Grumfutock]

Nope, I could of sworn I asked you for your proof and sources? Is it in invisible ink or are you going to be like others on here and just go round in circles to avoid the truth?

[Transmitter Man]

Audi,

Wel, it certainly does rely on killing Palestinians who launch rockets aimed indiscriminately, are armed with RPG's and AK47's and who creep over the border with murderous intent. It seems to really bug you when a country has armed forces which it deploys to defend its citizens.
__________

They were last years models, they now, or at least did () fire rockets with somewhat greater range:

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.60...

I sincerely hope they have now all been destroyed - complete with the trigger-man.

Phil

[Countdown]

Grumfutock said:

Nope, I could of sworn I asked you for your proof and sources? Is it in invisible ink or are you going to be like others on here and just go round in circles to avoid the truth?

Yes. A bit like you stating that god exists and then asking me to prove that god doesn't exist.

For clarity - providing a list of links that refer to "current " conflicts and using that as evidence to support your assertion is like me saying that today is the hottest day in modern history. It's meaningless, but I suspect you already know that.

Still, a handy way for you to ignore questions, but I don't think anybody spotted it.

[Slaav]

Countdown said:

Still, a handy way for you to ignore questions, but I don't think anybody spotted it.

It was a different question to the one that this refers to but can anybody (or is anybody prepared to try to) defend and justify the recently announced appropriation of land and increased settlement building in the context of the cease fire and negotiations?

(I know the Israeli argument for ownership and expansion but I am asking specifically in context with the still new cease fire and negotiations ?)

Thanks in advance....

[Countdown]

Slaav said:

It was a different question to the one that this refers to but can anybody (or is anybody prepared to try to) defend and justify the recently announced appropriation of land and increased settlement building in the context of the cease fire and negotiations?

(I know the Israeli argument for ownership and expansion but I am asking specifically in context with the still new cease fire and negotiations ?)

Thanks in advance....

I think the best you'll get is "Yes that's wrong but what about......" Which kind of ignores the fact that it is PRECISELY this issue which has caused the problem to go on for so long.

[Grumfutock]

Countdown said:

Grumfutock said:

Nope, I could of sworn I asked you for your proof and sources? Is it in invisible ink or are you going to be like others on here and just go round in circles to avoid the truth?

Yes. A bit like you stating that god exists and then asking me to prove that god doesn't exist.

For clarity - providing a list of links that refer to "current " conflicts and using that as evidence to support your assertion is like me saying that today is the hottest day in modern history. It's meaningless, but I suspect you already know that.

Still, a handy way for you to ignore questions, but I don't think anybody spotted it.

Not at all, to argue against my figures surely you have some reference material or are you still just basing your entire argument against facts on a hunch? God has nothing to do with it and that is a very silly analogy, just show me where you counted up all these wars.

Very simple request that should be very simple to do.

[Slaav]

Grumfutock said:

Countdown said:

Grumfutock said:

Nope, I could of sworn I asked you for your proof and sources? Is it in invisible ink or are you going to be like others on here and just go round in circles to avoid the truth?

Yes. A bit like you stating that god exists and then asking me to prove that god doesn't exist.

For clarity - providing a list of links that refer to "current " conflicts and using that as evidence to support your assertion is like me saying that today is the hottest day in modern history. It's meaningless, but I suspect you already know that.

Still, a handy way for you to ignore questions, but I don't think anybody spotted it.

Not at all, to argue against my figures surely you have some reference material or are you still just basing your entire argument against facts on a hunch? God has nothing to do with it and that is a very silly analogy, just show me where you counted up all these wars.

Very simple request that should be very simple to do.

Sorry to poke my nose in to your personal battle with individual posters but I have just popped back and checked the wording of the post in dispute.

The statement is clearly that there are more wars and conflicts ongoing now than at any time in history (useless at quoting so have given up messing it up I am afraid.... )

You were 'called' on that one and neither of you have posted accurate numbers or links to ascertain whether this statement is true or false? I would have thought the point would be that one of you could actually 'prove' your point? One could argue that as the original claim was yours, then the burden falls on you more. That is just my opinion mind

Now I have taken the time to look at and read your links and it does indeed state one hell of a lot of ongoing conflicts; of all shapes and sizes! Way more than I would have ever guessed

The links do not however back up your statement without further corroborating data surely? Whilst you may be correct, I have hit Google and have not found anything to support your claim, can you?

As many of the personal arguments seem to degenerate into courtroom style pedantry, I thought (and hope) that this helps? Sadly, I don't think it will be appreciated .... (I probably wouldn't take too kindly to someone butting in either but would hopefully understand that I am trying to help/add rather than derail)



Ps - once again I have been educated by this argument/banter so may the thread continue but the claim does not seem to be backed up as stated. Sorry

[Countdown]

Slaav said:

Sorry to poke my nose in to your personal battle with individual posters but I have just popped back and checked the wording of the post in dispute.

The statement is clearly that there are more wars and conflicts ongoing now than at any time in history (useless at quoting so have given up messing it up I am afraid.... )

You were 'called' on that one and neither of you have posted accurate numbers or links to ascertain whether this statement is true or false? I would have thought the point would be that one of you could actually 'prove' your point? One could argue that as the original claim was yours, then the burden falls on you more. That is just my opinion mind

Now I have taken the time to look at and read your links and it does indeed state one hell of a lot of ongoing conflicts; of all shapes and sizes! Way more than I would have ever guessed

The links do not however back up your statement without further corroborating data surely? Whilst you may be correct, I have hit Google and have not found anything to support your claim, can you?

As many of the personal arguments seem to degenerate into courtroom style pedantry, I thought (and hope) that this helps? Sadly, I don't think it will be appreciated .... (I probably wouldn't take too kindly to someone butting in either but would hopefully understand that I am trying to help/add rather than derail)



Ps - once again I have been educated by this argument/banter so may the thread continue but the claim does not seem to be backed up as stated. Sorry

Thanks. That's pretty much what i was attempting to say but realised I'd got caught up in (another of ) Grum's diversions.

It would be more interesting (and pertinent) to see what the answer is to the issue of land seizure.

[JensenA]

Well done Slav - you have said exactly what I suspect many others have been thinking.

I do however see Grumfuttock as something of a grammatical pedantic. If I was to say 'the pub was busy tonight, there was about a million people in there,' everyone would know exactly the point I was making, but GM would ask me to prove that there were in fact a million people in the pub, it would then degenerate into him insisting That Improve exactly how many were in fact in the pub. I wouldn't be able to, therefore in his eyes I am a liar, and in actual fact the pub was empty.

One of the facts is that the Israelis have killed about 2000 Palestinian civilians, and Hammas have killed about 3 Israeli civilians. I think this is wrong, but it does not mean I hate Israel and think Hammas are angels - but good old GM will come up with some counter argument.

[Slaav]

http://www.regjeringen.no/en/dep/ud/campaigns/refl...

An interesting read from what appears to be a reasonable source.

From skim reading the whole thing, it is interesting to see the 'recommendations' and how to ensure the downward trend continues

And it is worth reading, notwithstanding the pedantry in this current argument

[Grumfutock]

Slaav said:

Ps - once again I have been educated by this argument/banter so may the thread continue but the claim does not seem to be backed up as stated. Sorry

Really? Did you use the 3 links I provided?

[Grumfutock]

JensenA said:

BLAH BLAH YAWN BLAH

And one of the little monkeys comes in to rattle his pathetic stick again. No doubt the other two, Tweedle dumb and Tweddle dumber will be along to add their little contributions.

I have more respect for Countdown and even Allnighter. At least they stay the course and don't just pop in to re-light the touch paper every 5 days.

[Slaav]

Grumfutock said:

Slaav said:

Ps - once again I have been educated by this argument/banter so may the thread continue but the claim does not seem to be backed up as stated. Sorry

Really? Did you use the 3 links I provided?

I did indeed as clearly stated in my post! In fact, I read them twice and commented in my post to that effect.....

I also mentioned (in case it wasn't clear) that your links quoted way more conflicts than I would ever have appreciated or guessed. To that extent, it was a surprise and education to/for me.

I then went on to suggest that this surprisingly large (way more than I would 'of' () thought) numbers meant nothing to back up the statement made without corroborating numbers (for previous years/eras)

If one compared 'today' and your numbers against periods in the past of sufficient number and spread that the statement in question stacks up, then I would suggest you 'win'?

I then posted a link to what seemed a reasonably sourced and written paper that suggested (possibly based on specific definitions - but then it qualifies it's claims pretty well) that your actual statement may not be robust?

As I say, you have already helped educate me with your own links and have stimulated me to pop off and read stuff I would HAVE been highly unlikely to read in a normal day thank you for that.

As a point on this thread though, this may be a bit of a diversion......

Did you read my post about Entebbe? I also didn't know that point!

[Grumfutock]

Slaav said:

http://www.regjeringen.no/en/dep/ud/campaigns/refl...

An interesting read from what appears to be a reasonable source.

From skim reading the whole thing, it is interesting to see the 'recommendations' and how to ensure the downward trend continues

And it is worth reading, notwithstanding the pedantry in this current argument

It is an interesting read however it is some what out of date being publish in 2007.

Below is a list of on going wars, conflicts, military actions and general nastiness. The figure at the end of each line is the estimated deaths so far in 2014 for each one. There would appear to be different yard sticks for what constitutes a war/conflict. I will go with the "if people are fighting and killing each other" method (just so there is no confusion, I wouldn't want anyone to be grammatically pedantic). Before anyone starts screaming for a source, I have already posted it before.

Kurdish separatism in Iran 3+
Korean conflict 1
Papua conflict 21
Communist insurgency in the Philippines 6
Internal conflict in Peru 3+
Turkey-PKK conflict 14
Lord's Resistance Army insurgency 47+ (civilians)
Nagorno-Karabakh conflict 48
Insurgency in the Maghreb 28
Paraguayan People's Army insurgency 3
South Yemen insurgency 13
Sudan–SRF conflict 5
Northern Mali conflict 94
Internal conflict in Mozambique 50+
Insurgency in the North Caucasus 200+
Kashmir conflict 40
Balochistan conflict 86+
Internal conflict in Burma 52+
Insurgency in Northeast India 91
Colombian conflict 116
Naxalite–Maoist insurgency 217
Moro insurgency in the Philippines 91
Xinjiang conflict 199
Al-Qaeda insurgency in Yemen 200
War in Darfur 79
Shia insurgency in Yemen 207
Conflict in the Niger Delta 123
South Thailand insurgency 18
ADF insurgency 288
Syrian Civil War spill over in Lebanon 70
Israeli–Palestinian conflict 2,204+
Afghan Civil War 1,564+
Somali Civil War 1,887
Islamist insurgency in Nigeria 5,026+
War in North-West Pakistan 3,226+
Egyptian Crisis 94-325
Post-civil war violence in Libya 1,287
Central African Republic conflict 1,237+
War in Ukraine 2,593+
Mexican Drug War 1,401+
Syrian Civil War 30,000+
Ethnic violence in South Sudan 804+
Iraqi insurgency 2014 11,018

[Slaav]

Grumfutock said:

It is an interesting read however it is some what out of date being publish in 2007.

Below is a list of on going wars, conflicts, military actions and general nastiness. The figure at the end of each line is the estimated deaths so far in 2014 for each one. There would appear to be different yard sticks for what constitutes a war/conflict. I will go with the "if people are fighting and killing each other" method (just so there is no confusion, I wouldn't want anyone to be grammatically pedantic). Before anyone starts screaming for a source, I have already posted it before.

Kurdish separatism in Iran 3+
Korean conflict 1
Papua conflict 21
Communist insurgency in the Philippines 6
Internal conflict in Peru 3+
Turkey-PKK conflict 14
Lord's Resistance Army insurgency 47+ (civilians)
Nagorno-Karabakh conflict 48
Insurgency in the Maghreb 28
Paraguayan People's Army insurgency 3
South Yemen insurgency 13
Sudan–SRF conflict 5
Northern Mali conflict 94
Internal conflict in Mozambique 50+
Insurgency in the North Caucasus 200+
Kashmir conflict 40
Balochistan conflict 86+
Internal conflict in Burma 52+
Insurgency in Northeast India 91
Colombian conflict 116
Naxalite–Maoist insurgency 217
Moro insurgency in the Philippines 91
Xinjiang conflict 199
Al-Qaeda insurgency in Yemen 200
War in Darfur 79
Shia insurgency in Yemen 207
Conflict in the Niger Delta 123
South Thailand insurgency 18
ADF insurgency 288
Syrian Civil War spill over in Lebanon 70
Israeli–Palestinian conflict 2,204+
Afghan Civil War 1,564+
Somali Civil War 1,887
Islamist insurgency in Nigeria 5,026+
War in North-West Pakistan 3,226+
Egyptian Crisis 94-325
Post-civil war violence in Libya 1,287
Central African Republic conflict 1,237+
War in Ukraine 2,593+
Mexican Drug War 1,401+
Syrian Civil War 30,000+
Ethnic violence in South Sudan 804+
Iraqi insurgency 2014 11,018

What were the actual numbers in 1943 for instance? Or (eg) 1976 etc?

Fair point about the date but the paper did imply we were at a low point when written and although the trend had been downward for a while, it was levelling off.

What are the numbers for other periods?

Ps - without being pedantic , do gangs fighting each other where deaths occur represent a statistic to back up your numbers? Gangs of how many? Etc etc....