Jon Venables back in prison
Discussion
La Liga said:
Red 4 said:
As the Senior Investigating Officer said on the programme last night;
"There are 10 year olds, and then there are 10 year olds".
Don't confuse these two with anything approaching "normal".
Did you know that on the morning of his arrest Thompson had revisited the scene and laid flowers at the memorial to James Bulger ? Possibly a further attempt to cover his tracks, or maybe just sick .... it certainly wasn't out of remorse.
Despite the tears during his interviews he was descibed by the detectives as being blase about it all - contrary to what the other documentary on Monday said.
"Streetwise" (for a 10 year old) in the extreme. With "a look of pure evil".
It was an exceptional crime. The punishment should fit the crime. 8 years in "secure accommodation doesn't cut it.
Denise Fergus feels that Venables and Thompson have been rewarded for their crime.
I can see where she's coming from.
Putting Venables's adult offending to one side, what is 'justice' in terms of Thompson? "There are 10 year olds, and then there are 10 year olds".
Don't confuse these two with anything approaching "normal".
Did you know that on the morning of his arrest Thompson had revisited the scene and laid flowers at the memorial to James Bulger ? Possibly a further attempt to cover his tracks, or maybe just sick .... it certainly wasn't out of remorse.
Despite the tears during his interviews he was descibed by the detectives as being blase about it all - contrary to what the other documentary on Monday said.
"Streetwise" (for a 10 year old) in the extreme. With "a look of pure evil".
It was an exceptional crime. The punishment should fit the crime. 8 years in "secure accommodation doesn't cut it.
Denise Fergus feels that Venables and Thompson have been rewarded for their crime.
I can see where she's coming from.
He was going to be released at some point. What numerical figure magically becomes 'justice'? 8 years? 16 years (average for UK murder IIRC), 20? At any point below having them incarcerated for their whole lives one can make the argument based on the severity of the crime it's 'not enough'.
King Herald said:
I still find it hard to believe anybody could see fit to release them. Maybe the same sort of odd apologist mentality that is letting this Worboy character out of jail, though I can even begin to imagine what goes through their head when making such decisions.
What's the alternative? Is it to keep a 10 year old detained / in prison until they die? That doesn't happen to most adult murderers.
What they did was evil, but they were 10 so you would have thought 8 years of therapy an rehabilitation might have changed things. It appears in Vennables case he is not fixed an not fit to be part of society and indeed presents a risk to children even today. Of Thompson we are told he has a new life an I suspect is haunted by what he did even today.
Bottom line we do not kill or lock up 10 year olds till they die but we do monitor high risk individuals and it seems public safety is being upheld with the current actions, though I would suggest not releasing him now as he is no longer 10 but an adult an still a risk.
La Liga said:
hat's the alternative? Is it to keep a 10 year old detained / in prison until they die?
That doesn't happen to most adult murderers.
Nothing was ever going to be enough for some, and for others they were just little children who made a mistake without realising what they were doing. I don't know enough about them to comment on what they were like back then (like everybody else) but as a minimum they should have been kept inside until they had been properly assessed as adults to see if they were 'pure evil' or just evil kids who have grown up to be acceptably normal.That doesn't happen to most adult murderers.
15 years would have seen them through their childhood and then seen them mature into adults, then make the assessment whether they were safe to be released with all the protection needed.
With Thompson it looks like he has respected his past and the compassion shown, and has been rehabilitated quietly into society. Venables has shown the opposite and like any other adult committing a child pornography crime, should be listed on the sex offenders register and his identity revealed.
La Liga said:
Putting Venables's adult offending to one side, what is 'justice' in terms of Thompson?
He was going to be released at some point. What numerical figure magically becomes 'justice'? 8 years? 16 years (average for UK murder IIRC), 20? At any point below having them incarcerated for their whole lives one can make the argument based on the severity of the crime it's 'not enough'.
The argument has always been that Venables and Thompson should have also spent time in an adult prison.He was going to be released at some point. What numerical figure magically becomes 'justice'? 8 years? 16 years (average for UK murder IIRC), 20? At any point below having them incarcerated for their whole lives one can make the argument based on the severity of the crime it's 'not enough'.
I'd say the 15 year tariff (reduced back down to 8 years on appeal) was about right - 8 years in a YOI, 7 years in an adult prison.
They'd still be out aged 25.
As for the licence - commit any crime and it's straight back inside to serve the maximum time for that crime without any reductions for guilty pleas, etc.
Breach any terms of the licence (as Venables did multiple times without sanction simply by visiting Merseyside to watch Everton/ visit bars) - minimum 3 years with no discount.
Edited by Red 4 on Friday 9th February 14:27
King Herald said:
La Liga said:
What's the alternative? Is it to keep a 10 year old detained / in prison until they die?
That doesn't happen to most adult murderers.
What were they locked up for though? That is the question. I doubt it was for punishment. And if it was for ‘rehabilitation’ then at some stage someone has to decide that they are rehabilitated and are fit for release, as they are now normal human beings. You would have to be a brave person to make that decision. And obviously they got it wrong with Venables.That doesn't happen to most adult murderers.
In a general sense, look at the outcomes countries who heavily focus on rehabilitation have.
Risk isn't binary and all the evidence and information that went into Venables's release may have concluded, as best it can when unknowns are present, that he was fit for release.
Jaguar steve said:
Granfondo said:
Very sad documentary and that author t
t sticking up for those monsters is sickening along with the snowflakes on here!
If you read a little more carefully you'll find the "Snowflakes" posting on here aren't defending Venables' actions at all. What they are defending is the right of any citizen, no matter who they are or what they've done not to be set upon by a vacuous mob of vigilante morons whipped into a mindless frenzy by sentimental, self-righteous populist garbage spewed out by the media.t sticking up for those monsters is sickening along with the snowflakes on here!The entire thread has been dominated by individual champions of the people who relish the thought of Venables being ripped limb from limb in the street and that viewpoint makes them no better than him. An eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth knee-jerk reaction belongs in the Bible or infant school playground and has absolutely no place in grown-up world.
What do you think might happen if that vigilante mindset persists and a blurry picture of Venables appears on social media and then somebody who is dressed and looks vaguely similar walks past a hard of thinking bunch of idiots who've been in the pub all day?
If you don't like the law or the way it works then petition for change. Instead of just beating the s
t out of somebody if anybody feels strongly enough to take action the intelligent solution is to put together a reasoned case for change and get audience for it. It's a pity that your moral compass wasnt set a bit higher for child murdering kiddy fiddlers than it is for "chav plate" owners which seems to anger you more!
La Liga said:
Incarceration should be focused on rehabilitation. Especially with children.
It should be - but it isn't.Ask anyone who has served time.
You are suggesting an overhaul of the YOI/ prison system - which isn't likely to happen any time soon.
You have to work with how it is - not how it should be.
That sentiment works for Venables and Thompson too.
Venables appears to be beyond hope. It's pretty clear he has no respect for the terms of his release.
Edited by Red 4 on Friday 9th February 14:41
Don't get side tracked by the 40 month sentence for the indecent images case.
He should simply get the tariff sentence for that offence. Which is what has happened.
The real issue is not even the revocation of his licence for the murder (which must surely be a given), but the Parole Board decision which will eventually be made regarding any potential future release from that life sentence (or detention at Her Majesty's Pleasure, if we are being pedantic).
So forget the 40 month sentence. After 20 months, he will be eligible for release in relation to that sentence.
He will thereafter remain a serving prisoner in relation to the original murder conviction until such time as he can satisfy the Parole Board that he is safe to be released.
Over the years, I expect that a huge amount of resources have been deployed to try to rehabilitate him. Given the rather worrying circumstances of the indecent images case, it seems clear that he remains a danger to children, despite all those efforts.
He should have grasped the fairly generous opportunity that was afforded to him when he was originally released (which is what Thompson seems to have done).
The Parole Board has already let him out twice. And twice he has gone on to commit child sex offences.
Any decision to release him in the future would be very hard to justify and would signal a terrible injustice for the Bulger family.
He should simply get the tariff sentence for that offence. Which is what has happened.
The real issue is not even the revocation of his licence for the murder (which must surely be a given), but the Parole Board decision which will eventually be made regarding any potential future release from that life sentence (or detention at Her Majesty's Pleasure, if we are being pedantic).
So forget the 40 month sentence. After 20 months, he will be eligible for release in relation to that sentence.
He will thereafter remain a serving prisoner in relation to the original murder conviction until such time as he can satisfy the Parole Board that he is safe to be released.
Over the years, I expect that a huge amount of resources have been deployed to try to rehabilitate him. Given the rather worrying circumstances of the indecent images case, it seems clear that he remains a danger to children, despite all those efforts.
He should have grasped the fairly generous opportunity that was afforded to him when he was originally released (which is what Thompson seems to have done).
The Parole Board has already let him out twice. And twice he has gone on to commit child sex offences.
Any decision to release him in the future would be very hard to justify and would signal a terrible injustice for the Bulger family.
Granfondo said:
f you would read what I wrote a little more closely then you would see I never suggested violence towards him but only it's sickening when people try to defend them as the author guy did in both documentaries!
It's a pity that your moral compass wasnt set a bit higher for child murdering kiddy fiddlers than it is for "chav plate" owners which seems to anger you more!
Spot on! It's a pity that your moral compass wasnt set a bit higher for child murdering kiddy fiddlers than it is for "chav plate" owners which seems to anger you more!
The sentence was a joke and the documentary was harrowing. The guy saying they made a 'mistake' was a fool. The fact is these two, aged 10 systematically beat and killed a toddler. It was proven to be pre-meditated and calculated, these were not 'silly boys' they are murderers.
There is only one way to deal with them, unfortunately our liberal society doesn't allow it. In all the years since Venables has made nothing of himself and Thompson, who knows? The amount of time and money it has cost the state to house and protect these criminals is a disgrace IMO. I can't imagine how hard done by the parents must feel, it would drive me insane.
otolith said:
yonex said:
There is only one way to deal with them, unfortunately our liberal society doesn't allow it.
What's that? Does it involve you telling them to look at the flowers?yonex said:
otolith said:
What's that? Does it involve you telling them to look at the flowers?
Yes, whilst strapped to a gurney and a cocktail of drugs coursing through their veins. Ultimately they will have a peaceful death, they took that away from James. otolith said:
yonex said:
otolith said:
What's that? Does it involve you telling them to look at the flowers?
Yes, whilst strapped to a gurney and a cocktail of drugs coursing through their veins. Ultimately they will have a peaceful death, they took that away from James. I'd far rather JV and RT spent the rest of their lives in prison and hopefully one day they wake up and realize how disgusting a thing they did then spend the rest of their days in utter metal torture.....has to be better than peacefully passing due to a painless and pretty quick injection...
Ascayman said:
La Liga said:
Venables has a lifelong anonymity order and KH thought it was a good idea to post 'him' on PH...
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