Freedom from TV license oppression

[goldblum]

Countdown said:

How can they be threatening if you've done nothing wrong?

I'm not sure how to take this comment. Are you serious?

[Countdown]

goldblum said:

Countdown said:

How can they be threatening if you've done nothing wrong?

I'm not sure how to take this comment. Are you serious?

Perfectly serious. As I said, the pile of letters went straight in the bin. I also had various debt collection agency letters relating to a previous tenant. They went straight in the bin.

Capita aren't the local protection racket. They're not going to burn your house down for not buying a TVL. As such I think the word "threatening" is OTT.

[goldblum]

Because you don't see the letters as threatening you dismiss the complaints of others who do?

[mph1977]

goldblum said:

Because you don't see the letters as threatening you dismiss the complaints of others who do?

becasue Objectively the prose and wording of TVL's letters are niether threatening nor oppressive ... to suggest otherwisae is a mis-description

If you want to put time and effort into countering a uniformed organisation that spends it's time and effort telling lies and threatening people - take a look at the 'Inspectorate' of the RSPCA ...

[eldar]

mph1977 said:

you have a funny idea of aggressive and threatening then ?

look at the working practices of DCAs and Bailiffs

since when to Crapita turn up mob handed with a flatbed to make their enquiries - and stand there hammering on the door shouting and screaming - as various 'debt collectors' and 'certificated bailiffs' have a habit of doing regardless of having not verified the debt ...

crapita don't walk around attempting to take walking possession of any car parked near the address they think they are owed money in relation to ...

Yet, at least. HMG are considering decriminalising TVL penalties, which has the bailiffs rubbing their hands......

[goldblum]

mph1977 said:

becasue Objectively the prose and wording of TVL's letters are niether threatening nor oppressive ... to suggest otherwisae is a mis-description

Objectively but from your point of view?

In a way you've hit the nail on the head here and also showed the flaw with your thinking - as everyone's perception of whether they feel threatened or not in a certain situation is different the fact you think you can decide for others whether they should feel threatened or not is frankly rather odd.

mph1977 said:

If you want to put time and effort into countering a uniformed organisation that spends it's time and effort telling lies and threatening people - take a look at the 'Inspectorate' of the RSPCA ...

Hmm. I'm allowed to feel threatened by these people am I?

[league67]

GetCarter said:

Last century it may be, but it also happens to be true. Most homes use TVs to watch TV, not play games or watch BluRays.

Regarding utter ste and drivel, I've recently watched the best TV I've ever seen (True Detective). Recent HBO output is a breath of fresh air, and if you haven't checked it out, I'd recommend it. It would be nice if the BBC had made it, but there we go... it's on the tele and its great tele!

Edited by GetCarter on Saturday 10th May 14:33

Thread derail; nice house you made for yourself. Well done.

[league67]

goldblum said:

Hmm. I'm allowed to feel threatened by these people am I?

Not aimed just at you, but a lot of sensitive flowers around these parts of the web.

[Funk]

Today I had the pleasure of a visit. I wasn't in, they left an ominous-looking document that inferred all sorts and was promptly binned. I wonder how many visits they'll make? I'm never here in the day and I don't bother answering the door unless I'm expecting someone, I wonder how much each visit costs and if they finally decide it's not worth the money pursuing? Rather than leave me in peace, they're now actually spending money on me. Morons.

What'll be interesting is to see how this plays out. I don't watch live TV at all. Although it would be perfectly legal to do so, I don't have any form of connection to a signal either. The screen cannot be seen from outside (2nd floor) and cannot be seen from the front door even if it were wide open. Their only way of actually getting in to the property would be with a warrant, and in order to obtain said warrant they would have to provide 'evidence' that I was watching live TV. Even gaining entry proves nothing because, as has been said before, it's not illegal to have a TV connected to a digital aerial for the purposes of receiving digital radio. Even if they found a TV connected it wouldn't be breaking the law. There is no way they possibly COULD observe me breaking the law (even if I were doing so), so I'm not really sure why they want to visit.

Either way they're not coming in which will serve to anger them I'm sure.

[Cotty]

Just out of interest what did you use to post that comment, pc, laptop, phone etc?

[Funk]

Cotty said:

Just out of interest what did you use to post that comment, pc, laptop, phone etc?

I'm curious as to why you're interested?

[Cotty]

Because the vids I have seen where they enter the house with a warrant, they do not provide evidence. However once they enter they do try to prove you have the ability to watch live TV. You can view live TV on a computer or laptop.

I don't agree that having the ability to do something, means you are doing it, but they don't see it that way.

I don't watch live TV but I have a PC capable of doing so. I would like to cancel my licence but can't be bothered with the problems it causes.

[Countdown]

Given the number of people being convicted of not having a TV license - they must have a fairly simple /straightforward way of proving the offence in court.

[Funk]

Cotty said:

Because the vids I have seen where they enter the house with a warrant, they do not provide evidence. However once they enter they do try to prove you have the ability to watch live TV. You can view live TV on a computer or laptop.

I don't agree that having the ability to do something, means you are doing it, but they don't see it that way.

I don't watch live TV but I have a PC capable of doing so. I would like to cancel my licence but can't be bothered with the problems it causes.

From the EO handbook:

"Section 4.1 Where an EO visits a property and computer use is claimed, the EO must follow the procedures as set out: An EO may ask to be allowed to see the computer equipment e.g. to check if an aerial is connected or if it is currently being used to watch live TV rogrammes, and/or ask the interviewee to bring the equipment into use to show which live TV programmes they normally receive. Under no circumstances must an EO ask to or attempt to access or test any computer equipment themselves". (2012 ed).

Note the entrapping point: "... to show which live TV programmes they normally receive." They are sneaky and devious. Note that they can only 'ask to be shown' - and you can refuse. They are not allowed to ask to access or test anything relating to any computer equipment.

Of course, the best course of action is to deny them access to your home at all. Do not even answer the door to them. The second you engage them, they will find a way to mislead, misconstrue or twist what you say and try to trick you into incriminating yourself, even where you are not guilty of doing anything wrong. Say nothing, sign nothing.

Countdown said:

Given the number of people being convicted of not having a TV license - they must have a fairly simple /straightforward way of proving the offence in court.

They do; they trick people into incriminating themselves or they outright lie. They also seem to prosecute quite a number of people wrongly, which are overturned on appeal. I also suspect there is some liberty-taking with the numbers - they've been caught lying on their mailshots so nothing would surprise me. Much of what's reported as 'positive' for TVL by the media is.....provided to the media by TVL. Quelle surprise.

I don't know why I have such a bee in my bonnet about this organisation - I think it's because I shouldn't have to explain myself to Capita on a regular basis, just because they can't understand that some of us survive just fine without live TV. Their tactics and deviousness also anger me. I know a lot of people who are bullied into buying a licence when they don't actually need one just to 'prevent the hassle'. Whether it's £145 or £1450 is irrelevant. No-one is legally required to have a TVL licence and they shouldn't be harangued by Capita (who are in the business of selling licences, let's not forget).

Edited by Funk on Saturday 19th July 00:02

[jmorgan]

If you think you are in the right then let them in?

[gpo746]

Countdown said:

Given the number of people being convicted of not having a TV license - they must have a fairly simple /straightforward way of proving the offence in court.

Partly ignorance on the part of the courts but mostly because the peeps feel pressured into admitting the "offence"
It's a hoot if you buy a property that was in 2 flats as our friends did. It was an end quasi with a side entrance (where the original downstairs side window would have been that then led to the right and upstairs.

All necessary building / planning etc was done to convert back. The meter supplies were disconnected/ removed etc. The "reconversion" took around 5 weeks to complete and it looks purely as it would have done as an original 4 bedroomed house.
There has been no issue with either EON/ British Gas/ United utilities etc
TVL is another world. A letter was sent to them. This elicited a "provide proof" response . Photographs were duly sent.
No further replies received but just in the last month the letters have started arriving. Its clear TVL have no actual record of who was in the upstairs flat.
Its just chancing your hand. As they have a TV Licence which they transferred when they moved their policy is that they will do no more replies and if visited will simply show their licence and clearly state the property is no longer in flats.

[DaveCWK]

Cotty said:

Because the vids I have seen where they enter the house with a warrant, they do not provide evidence. However once they enter they do try to prove you have the ability to watch live TV. You can view live TV on a computer or laptop.

I don't agree that having the ability to do something, means you are doing it, but they don't see it that way.

I don't watch live TV but I have a PC capable of doing so. I would like to cancel my licence but can't be bothered with the problems it causes.

Being able to prove you have the ability to do something means nothing, and I think these dinosaurs do need to start seeing it that way.

The guilty until proved innocent stance and intimidation tactics they use does annoy me. I'm happy for them to waste their time giving me a home visit, that's 5 minutes less they have available to do it to someone more vunerable - call it public service

[Fartomatic5000]

jmorgan said:

If you think you are in the right then let them in?

Why let a complete stranger working for a private company in to snoop around my private home and my kids' bedrooms? I work for a large software company, so why not post your address here and I'll have someone call round next week to make sure you aren't using our software without a license. If you think you are in the right you should let them in.

[FatSumo]

Fartomatic5000 said:

jmorgan said:

If you think you are in the right then let them in?

Why let a complete stranger working for a private company in to snoop around my private home and my kids' bedrooms? I work for a large software company, so why not post your address here and I'll have someone call round next week to make sure you aren't using our software without a license. If you think you are in the right you should let them in.

Plus they shouldn't have to enter, they have those tv detector vans.......right?

[gpo746]

FatSumo said:

Fartomatic5000 said:

jmorgan said:

If you think you are in the right then let them in?

Why let a complete stranger working for a private company in to snoop around my private home and my kids' bedrooms? I work for a large software company, so why not post your address here and I'll have someone call round next week to make sure you aren't using our software without a license. If you think you are in the right you should let them in.

Plus they shouldn't have to enter, they have those tv detector vans.......right?

I've been told they were.......FAKE
I don't believe it myself but.............