The death of the high street.

[anonymous-user]

Helicopter123 said:

He was mid market.

I think a gap exists for a lower-end Italian, to compete with the burger and chicken chains.

The mid market is getting thumped at the moment.

Such things exist in the shape of the pizza chains.

Beyond pizza it’s nigh on impossible to make an Italian mass market offering that competes as a QSR.

The food is not portable and does not lend itself well to quick assembly from scratch meaning wasteage would be high and consistent quality hard to maintain.

Lastly the Italian sector is by some margin the most over served part of the lower mid to mid market and margins are tiny as vouchering continues to hold sway.

[matrignano]

classicaholic said:

Jamie Olivers just gone tits up, funny that as its always been busy when I have been in.

Wish I could have shorted it!

They had been offering 50% off on Deliveroo for the last few months, and had constant cashback offers with Amex too. Smelled of desperation and "last resort" tactics.

Also their food was ste

[anonymous-user]

Had a few perfectly acceptable meals there, nothing amazing, nothing to complain about.

It was never really cheap enough to say I'd eat there once or twice a month, nor special enough to go for an occasion. It was more of a lunchtime with the kids kind of thing.

Paying for bespoke, expensive units in prime locations isn't a cheap hobby and I suspect his model required high volume of middle market punters, who these days have too much choice on the High Street and I suspect less of a sit down to a lunchtime meal mentality as maybe in the past? Not to mention Just Eat/Deliveroo etc.

[Burwood]

matrignano said:

classicaholic said:

Jamie Olivers just gone tits up, funny that as its always been busy when I have been in.

Wish I could have shorted it!

They had been offering 50% off on Deliveroo for the last few months, and had constant cashback offers with Amex too. Smelled of desperation and "last resort" tactics.

Also their food was ste

It will be interesting to see, given his profile, whether he pays staff in full and whether suppliers get paid. HSBC is owed £25M you would think they have some sort of security. PG?

[BrabusMog]

Brooking10 said:

Helicopter123 said:

He was mid market.

I think a gap exists for a lower-end Italian, to compete with the burger and chicken chains.

The mid market is getting thumped at the moment.

Such things exist in the shape of the pizza chains.

Beyond pizza it’s nigh on impossible to make an Italian mass market offering that competes as a QSR.

The food is not portable and does not lend itself well to quick assembly from scratch meaning wasteage would be high and consistent quality hard to maintain.

Lastly the Italian sector is by some margin the most over served part of the lower mid to mid market and margins are tiny as vouchering continues to hold sway.

I wouldn't class Jamie's Italian as a QSR.

[PurpleTurtle]

The Jamie's Italian near me (Reading Oracle) closed months ago during their first round of cost-cutting.

I never went in there. He's got no association with Italy as far as I'm aware, and the windows ful of JAMIE, JAMIE, JAMIE!!! books stank of dreadful narcissism.

Then again, Pizza Express aside, I tend to avoid most chain restaurants and seek out an indie.

[anonymous-user]

BrabusMog said:

Brooking10 said:

Helicopter123 said:

He was mid market.

I think a gap exists for a lower-end Italian, to compete with the burger and chicken chains.

The mid market is getting thumped at the moment.

Such things exist in the shape of the pizza chains.

Beyond pizza it’s nigh on impossible to make an Italian mass market offering that competes as a QSR.

The food is not portable and does not lend itself well to quick assembly from scratch meaning wasteage would be high and consistent quality hard to maintain.

Lastly the Italian sector is by some margin the most over served part of the lower mid to mid market and margins are tiny as vouchering continues to hold sway.

I wouldn't class Jamie's Italian as a QSR.

Neither would I.

I was replying to the suggestion from Helicopter that there could be an opportunity for a lower end Italian to compete with burger and chicken joints which are most definitely QSR.

[Shakermaker]

QSR?

I think the only time I've been to Jamie's was at Amsterdam airport. We had a beer.

[BrabusMog]

Brooking10 said:

BrabusMog said:

Brooking10 said:

Helicopter123 said:

He was mid market.

I think a gap exists for a lower-end Italian, to compete with the burger and chicken chains.

The mid market is getting thumped at the moment.

Such things exist in the shape of the pizza chains.

Beyond pizza it’s nigh on impossible to make an Italian mass market offering that competes as a QSR.

The food is not portable and does not lend itself well to quick assembly from scratch meaning wasteage would be high and consistent quality hard to maintain.

Lastly the Italian sector is by some margin the most over served part of the lower mid to mid market and margins are tiny as vouchering continues to hold sway.

I wouldn't class Jamie's Italian as a QSR.

Neither would I.

I was replying to the suggestion from Helicopter that there could be an opportunity for a lower end Italian to compete with burger and chicken joints which are most definitely QSR.

Fair enough, missed your midmarket part and the rest didn't then seem that clear.

[anonymous-user]

Shakermaker said:

QSR?

I think the only time I've been to Jamie's was at Amsterdam airport. We had a beer.

Quick Service Restaurant - Think McD, BK, KFC, Subway. Dominos etc.

Not mentioned in a Jamie context, but in response to the poster who thinks there is an opportunity for an Italian offering in that part of the market.

[Burwood]

Brooking10 said:

Shakermaker said:

QSR?

I think the only time I've been to Jamie's was at Amsterdam airport. We had a beer.

Quick Service Restaurant - Think McD, BK, KFC, Subway. Dominos etc.

Not mentioned in a Jamie context, but in response to the poster who thinks there is an opportunity for an Italian offering in that part of the market.

Just a quick look at their figures, which could have all sorts of Oliver Brand fees (who knows), it was a bit of a slog even in good days. 5 years ago is earnt 5M on almost 100M turnover. More recently 2-3M. Is it worth the risk. Wafer thin margins I'd say no. Again, not sure exactly what comprises GM but it looks low. And now having 1.6M in interest expense. Game over. I shudder to think of the rents (Bus rates) they were paying and being reliant on 1000 staff.

[Helicopter123]

Brooking10 said:

Helicopter123 said:

He was mid market.

I think a gap exists for a lower-end Italian, to compete with the burger and chicken chains.

The mid market is getting thumped at the moment.

Such things exist in the shape of the pizza chains.

Beyond pizza it’s nigh on impossible to make an Italian mass market offering that competes as a QSR.

The food is not portable and does not lend itself well to quick assembly from scratch meaning wasteage would be high and consistent quality hard to maintain.

Lastly the Italian sector is by some margin the most over served part of the lower mid to mid market and margins are tiny as vouchering continues to hold sway.

Something more like Sbarro where they do takeaway inc various dishes that are non-Pizza maybe?

https://sbarro.com/

[BrabusMog]

Helicopter123 said:

Brooking10 said:

Helicopter123 said:

He was mid market.

I think a gap exists for a lower-end Italian, to compete with the burger and chicken chains.

The mid market is getting thumped at the moment.

Such things exist in the shape of the pizza chains.

Beyond pizza it’s nigh on impossible to make an Italian mass market offering that competes as a QSR.

The food is not portable and does not lend itself well to quick assembly from scratch meaning wasteage would be high and consistent quality hard to maintain.

Lastly the Italian sector is by some margin the most over served part of the lower mid to mid market and margins are tiny as vouchering continues to hold sway.

Something more like Sbarro where they do takeaway inc various dishes that are non-Pizza maybe?

https://sbarro.com/

Sbarro flopped in the UK years ago.

[Helicopter123]

amusingduck said:

Helicopter123 said:

saaby93 said:

classicaholic said:

Jamie Olivers just gone tits up, funny that as its always been busy when I have been in.

-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48352026
Did anyone go there?

Suspect business rates and rent have killed this one.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/06/jamie-oliver-close-restaurants-brexit-jamies-italian-barbecoa

This article mentions Brexit, so you can resume normal service now and ascribe it to Brexit. We all know you're itching to do so

I don't see how Brexit would have paid a major role here? Incidental for sure but not the root cause.

[anonymous-user]

Julian Thompson said:

...
The answer is simple. Abandon the marketplaces and search on the internet. It has come full circle. Consumers trust the internet now.
...

The main reason I use amazon, even though in many instances it's more expensive than other independent more specialised merchants, is that they ship where I want them to, not just to my credit card address.

[Shakermaker]

Brooking10 said:

Quick Service Restaurant - Think McD, BK, KFC, Subway. Dominos etc.

Not mentioned in a Jamie context, but in response to the poster who thinks there is an opportunity for an Italian offering in that part of the market.

Gotcha, thanks.

[matrignano]

Brooking10 said:

Such things exist in the shape of the pizza chains.

Beyond pizza it’s nigh on impossible to make an Italian mass market offering that competes as a QSR.

The food is not portable and does not lend itself well to quick assembly from scratch meaning wasteage would be high and consistent quality hard to maintain.

Lastly the Italian sector is by some margin the most over served part of the lower mid to mid market and margins are tiny as vouchering continues to hold sway.

And yet, in London at least, Coco Di Mama seem to have successfully (judging by units growth, no idea what their PnL might be) carved themselves some room in the lunch/takeaway market, by selling pasta "freshly assembled on-premises" as well as the more obvious sandwiches and salads.

That was a true gap in the market IMHO which they have tapped into, as previously you could only find sandwiches, pizza and lasagna type of stuff.
Carluccios and co compete at a slightly higher price point, and are not as quick & portable.

Also in the last couple of years there seems to have been a boom in cheap & chearful pasta places, such as Padella, Pastaio or Scarpette. The new burger/peruvian/ramen/etc etc ?

[anonymous-user]

matrignano said:

Brooking10 said:

Such things exist in the shape of the pizza chains.

Beyond pizza it’s nigh on impossible to make an Italian mass market offering that competes as a QSR.

The food is not portable and does not lend itself well to quick assembly from scratch meaning wasteage would be high and consistent quality hard to maintain.

Lastly the Italian sector is by some margin the most over served part of the lower mid to mid market and margins are tiny as vouchering continues to hold sway.

And yet, in London at least, Coco Di Mama seem to have successfully (judging by units growth, no idea what their PnL might be) carved themselves some room in the lunch/takeaway market, by selling pasta "freshly assembled on-premises" as well as the more obvious sandwiches and salads.

That was a true gap in the market IMHO which they have tapped into, as previously you could only find sandwiches, pizza and lasagna type of stuff.
Carluccios and co compete at a slightly higher price point, and are not as quick & portable.

Also in the last couple of years there seems to have been a boom in cheap & chearful pasta places, such as Padella, Pastaio or Scarpette. The new burger/peruvian/ramen/etc etc ?

I use CDM most days and agree it is a very good offering.

It is owned by the Azzurri Group and so has significant sourcing synergies to benefit from.

It’s wholly London centric and very much caters to an “at desk” daytime market. Its scalability doesn’t therefore extend particularly far as a result.

I’m still convinced that the idea of a national chain which can compete in the QSR space focussed on Italian is a non starter.

[threespires]

With Labour's promise of a £10:00 p/h minimum wage, will high street shops see increased spending as folks will have more cash in their pocket or will the increase in their costs force more shops to close? [Assuming Labour win next time]

[wisbech]

How much is home delivery hurting places like Jamie’s? I presume much cheaper to supply from kitchens using non prime real estate.