Sir Ed Davey and the Post Office scandal
Discussion
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hstewie said:
hstewie said: We're on this thread which is about Davey.
How about you tell the people singling him out to grow up rather than the ones pointing out their inconsistency and hypocrisy.
Ed's firmly in the drawer marked C for Clown for any number of reasons. It doesn't need a dedicated thread or does it. Not my decision Doesn't stop other clowns from confirming their clown credentials. How about you tell the people singling him out to grow up rather than the ones pointing out their inconsistency and hypocrisy.
520TORQUES said:
He has come under scrutiny for a number of reasons, he was a minister responsible for the PO at the height of this injustice, he is also a current leader of one of the three main political parties, he was reluctant to do the right thing by the SPM and has been dragged kicking and screaming to an eventual apology.
He only has himself to blame that he became the story, he even admits his mistake in this respect in the LBC interview i posted.
During the next phase he will be entering a witness statement and will be interviewed by the KC, as will many other MP and ministers. That evidence and testimony will determine his political future.
This story is nearly 30 yrs old and Davey was there for 2. The height of the injustice was the years after him, when the real lies and cover ups started, when Second Sight was dismissed and afterwards.He only has himself to blame that he became the story, he even admits his mistake in this respect in the LBC interview i posted.
During the next phase he will be entering a witness statement and will be interviewed by the KC, as will many other MP and ministers. That evidence and testimony will determine his political future.
I find it interesting that Tory MPs were barracking Davey in the HoC, but since then that photo has emerged which shows leading Tory figures have been steeped up to their eyeballs with Fujitsu and the POL.
FiF said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: We're on this thread which is about Davey.
How about you tell the people singling him out to grow up rather than the ones pointing out their inconsistency and hypocrisy.
Ed's firmly in the drawer marked C for Clown for any number of reasons. It doesn't need a dedicated thread or does it. Not my decision Doesn't stop other clowns from confirming their clown credentials. How about you tell the people singling him out to grow up rather than the ones pointing out their inconsistency and hypocrisy.
As for Davey 100% agree but he's far from alone in this.
15 ministers from the three main parties.
You tell me why he's being singled out by the Conservatives and their loyal little supporters.
heebeegeetee said:
520TORQUES said:
He has come under scrutiny for a number of reasons, he was a minister responsible for the PO at the height of this injustice, he is also a current leader of one of the three main political parties, he was reluctant to do the right thing by the SPM and has been dragged kicking and screaming to an eventual apology.
He only has himself to blame that he became the story, he even admits his mistake in this respect in the LBC interview i posted.
During the next phase he will be entering a witness statement and will be interviewed by the KC, as will many other MP and ministers. That evidence and testimony will determine his political future.
This story is nearly 30 yrs old and Davey was there for 2. The height of the injustice was the years after him, when the real lies and cover ups started, when Second Sight was dismissed and afterwards.He only has himself to blame that he became the story, he even admits his mistake in this respect in the LBC interview i posted.
During the next phase he will be entering a witness statement and will be interviewed by the KC, as will many other MP and ministers. That evidence and testimony will determine his political future.
I find it interesting that Tory MPs were barracking Davey in the HoC, but since then that photo has emerged which shows leading Tory figures have been steeped up to their eyeballs with Fujitsu and the POL.
Wills2 said:
The whole system is up to it's neck in it, the PO scandal is a symptom of the state of our governance regardless of the party in charge, that Ed thought going on to work for one of the attack law firms involved in ruining these peoples lives and defending the PO board's lies tells you all you need to know.
I agree with all you say apart from comments about Davey; indeed I'm very suspicious about lack of involvement of police Nor am I defending Davey, I'm just puzzled as to why this one minister has been singled out.
Davey was there prior to the real cover up. After 2013 the select committee had uncovered enough imo, even if the general public was uninterested.
Hollinrake, Blagdon, Frazer Truss etc and who knows how many other Tories
were in the pay of Fujitsu and POL after the game was up. Why did they not stop POL from spaffing millions of taxpayers money on spurious prosecutions?
This nonsense about Davey is just distraction, imo.
heebeegeetee said:
Nor am I defending Davey, I'm just puzzled as to why this one minister has been singled out.
Because the Tory party are running scared in the South/Middle England and as leader of an opposition party they want to make as much noise about it as possible. The fact they have been in power for 14 years and done very little until ITV exposed it to millions over Christmas is not the big news,
heebeegeetee said:
This story is nearly 30 yrs old and Davey was there for 2. The height of the injustice was the years after him, when the real lies and cover ups started, when Second Sight was dismissed and afterwards.
I find it interesting that Tory MPs were barracking Davey in the HoC, but since then that photo has emerged which shows leading Tory figures have been steeped up to their eyeballs with Fujitsu and the POL.
Another poster tried the same angle regarding Davey’s tenure at a ‘critical period’ and when pressed offered a few lame examples, one of which was months after Davey had left office. It’s the same old twaddle being peddled by right wing media, entirely subjective but lapped up by a few on here. Davey has questions to answer no doubt, but in terms of culpability the outcry on this thread is hysterical. I find it interesting that Tory MPs were barracking Davey in the HoC, but since then that photo has emerged which shows leading Tory figures have been steeped up to their eyeballs with Fujitsu and the POL.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I knew you wouldn't pick them up on it but thanks for confirming it.
As for Davey 100% agree but he's far from alone in this.
15 ministers from the three main parties.
You tell me why he's being singled out by the Conservatives and their loyal little supporters.
I think Davy is facing a lot of criticism from people around that area of the political spectrum who might vote tory or LD.As for Davey 100% agree but he's far from alone in this.
15 ministers from the three main parties.
You tell me why he's being singled out by the Conservatives and their loyal little supporters.
Here in the South West, the LDs used to have a strong base, but a lot of people are disappointed with Davey's performance.
There are a lot of people who are less keen to vote tory, but the LDs are not exactly inspiring them right now..
People want a head on a stick, I guess both Labour and Tory are happy for Ed to be the fall guy.
From my dealings with gov't software projects, I would hazard a bet that the cover-up started well before Davey was PO minister and carried on after.
A lot of these projects are rotten top to bottom and beginning to end.
Possibly one of the reasons for Ed to be "targeted" is because he has a reputation for wanting other politico's to resign.
Ed is very much the leader they didnt really want he lost previous leadership election and only got the job due to a lack of talent within the Lib Dems. It was him or Layla.
The Lib Dems made the best of the situation before they went insane
Ed is very much the leader they didnt really want he lost previous leadership election and only got the job due to a lack of talent within the Lib Dems. It was him or Layla.
The Lib Dems made the best of the situation before they went insane
anonymoususer said:
Possibly one of the reasons for Ed to be "targeted" is because he has a reputation for wanting other politico's to resign.
Ed is very much the leader they didnt really want he lost previous leadership election and only got the job due to a lack of talent within the Lib Dems. It was him or Layla.
The Lib Dems made the best of the situation before they went insane
That's certainly where some of the press came from, he was constantly trying to get people fired or make them resign.Ed is very much the leader they didnt really want he lost previous leadership election and only got the job due to a lack of talent within the Lib Dems. It was him or Layla.
The Lib Dems made the best of the situation before they went insane
This comment piece discusses this. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/11/ed-dav...
heebeegeetee said:
Wills2 said:
The whole system is up to it's neck in it, the PO scandal is a symptom of the state of our governance regardless of the party in charge, that Ed thought going on to work for one of the attack law firms involved in ruining these peoples lives and defending the PO board's lies tells you all you need to know.
I agree with all you say apart from comments about Davey; indeed I'm very suspicious about lack of involvement of police Nor am I defending Davey, I'm just puzzled as to why this one minister has been singled out.
Davey was there prior to the real cover up. After 2013 the select committee had uncovered enough imo, even if the general public was uninterested.
Hollinrake, Blagdon, Frazer Truss etc and who knows how many other Tories
were in the pay of Fujitsu and POL after the game was up. Why did they not stop POL from spaffing millions of taxpayers money on spurious prosecutions?
This nonsense about Davey is just distraction, imo.
Perhaps the fact that I knew back in 2009 that Horizon wasn't fit for purpose colours my judgement of the issue, but yes throw them all in the same bin Truss regardless of party etc....my point isn't a political one aimed at the Lib Dems (who I've voted for several times)
OutInTheShed said:
I think Davy is facing a lot of criticism from people around that area of the political spectrum who might vote tory or LD.
Here in the South West, the LDs used to have a strong base, but a lot of people are disappointed with Davey's performance.
There are a lot of people who are less keen to vote tory, but the LDs are not exactly inspiring them right now..
People want a head on a stick, I guess both Labour and Tory are happy for Ed to be the fall guy.
From my dealings with gov't software projects, I would hazard a bet that the cover-up started well before Davey was PO minister and carried on after.
A lot of these projects are rotten top to bottom and beginning to end.
So where do you get your information from regarding how people feel, is it through your pants? Here in the South West, the LDs used to have a strong base, but a lot of people are disappointed with Davey's performance.
There are a lot of people who are less keen to vote tory, but the LDs are not exactly inspiring them right now..
People want a head on a stick, I guess both Labour and Tory are happy for Ed to be the fall guy.
From my dealings with gov't software projects, I would hazard a bet that the cover-up started well before Davey was PO minister and carried on after.
A lot of these projects are rotten top to bottom and beginning to end.
According to the polls Davey’s personal rating has slipped but it hasn’t affected support for the LD’s. I also reside in the SW now (for most of the time), anecdotally I hear sweet FA in the places and pubs I frequent and if anything I hear more folk talking about our Independent candidate than anyone else, but that’s purely anecdotal and to be ignored.
Blue62 said:
...
According to the polls Davey’s personal rating has slipped but it hasn’t affected support for the LD’s. I also reside in the SW now (for most of the time), anecdotally I hear sweet FA in the places and pubs I frequent and if anything I hear more folk talking about our Independent candidate than anyone else, but that’s purely anecdotal and to be ignored.
That's the thing about Davey, you hear nothing much about him, apart from this scandal.According to the polls Davey’s personal rating has slipped but it hasn’t affected support for the LD’s. I also reside in the SW now (for most of the time), anecdotally I hear sweet FA in the places and pubs I frequent and if anything I hear more folk talking about our Independent candidate than anyone else, but that’s purely anecdotal and to be ignored.
That's because he's crap.
The support for the LDs may be 'unaffected', i.e. they won't be getting many more seats than they did last time.
There was a huge centre swathe of remoaner voters just waiting for a competent liberal europhile leader, but there's none in sight.
OutInTheShed said:
Blue62 said:
...
According to the polls Davey’s personal rating has slipped but it hasn’t affected support for the LD’s. I also reside in the SW now (for most of the time), anecdotally I hear sweet FA in the places and pubs I frequent and if anything I hear more folk talking about our Independent candidate than anyone else, but that’s purely anecdotal and to be ignored.
That's the thing about Davey, you hear nothing much about him, apart from this scandal.According to the polls Davey’s personal rating has slipped but it hasn’t affected support for the LD’s. I also reside in the SW now (for most of the time), anecdotally I hear sweet FA in the places and pubs I frequent and if anything I hear more folk talking about our Independent candidate than anyone else, but that’s purely anecdotal and to be ignored.
That's because he's crap.
The support for the LDs may be 'unaffected', i.e. they won't be getting many more seats than they did last time.
There was a huge centre swathe of remoaner voters just waiting for a competent liberal europhile leader, but there's none in sight.
Wills2 said:
Perhaps the fact that I knew back in 2009 that Horizon wasn't fit for purpose colours my judgement of the issue, but yes throw them all in the same bin Truss regardless of party etc....my point isn't a political one aimed at the Lib Dems (who I've voted for several times)
Fair enough, but of course we now know that Horizon wasn't fit for purpose in 1995 or 1999, which are more reasons why I'm puzzled over the Davey thing.But while we're talking about him, we're not talking about the party who were governing during the years of the really dishonest cover up and indeed awarded the gong to the woman who is now possibly more toxic than Jimmy Saville.
OutInTheShed said:
That's the thing about Davey, you hear nothing much about him, apart from this scandal.
That's because he's crap.
The support for the LDs may be 'unaffected', i.e. they won't be getting many more seats than they did last time.
There was a huge centre swathe of remoaner voters just waiting for a competent liberal europhile leader, but there's none in sight.
I’m sorry, when I stated the LD support was not affected I was referring to the fact that their strong polling results in certain constituencies has not been affected by the campaign against Davey. Quite how you reach the conclusions that you do is a beyond me, but the rest of your post provides a fair insight. That's because he's crap.
The support for the LDs may be 'unaffected', i.e. they won't be getting many more seats than they did last time.
There was a huge centre swathe of remoaner voters just waiting for a competent liberal europhile leader, but there's none in sight.
There’s an orchestrated campaign by worried Tories to target Davey, he’s got questions but give it a rest.
heebeegeetee said:
Wills2 said:
Perhaps the fact that I knew back in 2009 that Horizon wasn't fit for purpose colours my judgement of the issue, but yes throw them all in the same bin Truss regardless of party etc....my point isn't a political one aimed at the Lib Dems (who I've voted for several times)
Fair enough, but of course we now know that Horizon wasn't fit for purpose in 1995 or 1999, which are more reasons why I'm puzzled over the Davey thing.But while we're talking about him, we're not talking about the party who were governing during the years of the really dishonest cover up and indeed awarded the gong to the woman who is now possibly more toxic than Jimmy Saville.
I have no more answers for you I'm afraid, as I keep on saying the list of politicians involved is long and inglorious.
heebeegeetee said:
Fair enough, but of course we now know that Horizon wasn't fit for purpose in 1995 or 1999, which are more reasons why I'm puzzled over the Davey thing.
....
It's the public sector.....
Fit for purpose mostly doesn't happen.
This isn't just about some (more) crap software, it's about the judicial system which allowed prosecutions to succeed.
OutInTheShed said:
heebeegeetee said:
Fair enough, but of course we now know that Horizon wasn't fit for purpose in 1995 or 1999, which are more reasons why I'm puzzled over the Davey thing.
....
It's the public sector.....
Fit for purpose mostly doesn't happen.
This isn't just about some (more) crap software, it's about the judicial system which allowed prosecutions to succeed.
Edited by Mrr T on Monday 5th February 06:54
Mrr T said:
If by the judicial system you mean the court and those who represented both sides in court. They seem to have acted properly.
Well, the prosecution lawyers presented (or were presented with) false evidence and failed to disclose everything to the defence teams about known issues with Horizon. But yes, the courts came to the "correct" conclusion with the evidence presented, albeit that evidence was incorrect.
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