Protesters blocking various M25 Junctions

[ZedLeg]

Biggy Stardust said:

Evanivitch said:

But their position isn't all about emissions. Take for example the ability of a nearly 3t SUV to demolish barriers protecting civilians or even other road users.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66120...

Blame the driver, not the vehicle.

You don’t think that nearly 3 tonnes is excessive for a vehicle that’s being driven by people with the minimum standard of training?

[bigothunter]

Langweilig said:

Are climate activists stupid or what?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-6789...

Protest escalate to using spray paint which is criminal damage. Could torching be next?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-6520...

[swisstoni]

ZedLeg said:

Biggy Stardust said:

Evanivitch said:

But their position isn't all about emissions. Take for example the ability of a nearly 3t SUV to demolish barriers protecting civilians or even other road users.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66120...

Blame the driver, not the vehicle.

You don’t think that nearly 3 tonnes is excessive for a vehicle that’s being driven by people with the minimum standard of training?

Accident statistics have steadily fallen for years.
SUV useage has grown over that time.

If I wanted to be an arse, I could make a case that they are reducing casualties.

[ZedLeg]

That kind of myopic data analysis doesn't help anyone though does it?

There are legion reasons why the ever increasing size of personal vehicles is a problem, it's not just lefty, eco warrior moaning.

[No ideas for a name]

bigothunter said:

Protest escalate to using spray paint which is criminal damage. Could torching be next?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-6520...

If they are not stopped now, when they don't get their own way, they will be throwing themselves on the floor like 2 year olds.
Forgot, they are doing that already.

[bigothunter]

ZedLeg said:

That kind of myopic data analysis doesn't help anyone though does it?

There are legion reasons why the ever increasing size of personal vehicles is a problem, it's not just lefty, eco warrior moaning.

Pease elucidate.

[bigothunter]

No ideas for a name said:

If they are not stopped now, when they don't get their own way, they will be throwing themselves on the floor like 2 year olds.

Forgot, they are doing that already.

[Biggy Stardust]

ZedLeg said:

Biggy Stardust said:

Evanivitch said:

But their position isn't all about emissions. Take for example the ability of a nearly 3t SUV to demolish barriers protecting civilians or even other road users.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66120...

Blame the driver, not the vehicle.

You don’t think that nearly 3 tonnes is excessive for a vehicle that’s being driven by people with the minimum standard of training?

I massively dislike SUVs & the fashion trend for having them. I also massively dislike the standard of driving of many drivers.

Nevertheless, lack of control of the vehicle is 100% the fault of the driver. My understanding is that the police & courts take a similar view.

[ZedLeg]

bigothunter said:

ZedLeg said:

That kind of myopic data analysis doesn't help anyone though does it?

There are legion reasons why the ever increasing size of personal vehicles is a problem, it's not just lefty, eco warrior moaning.

Pease elucidate.

Just off the top of my head

They take up more space
They are more expensive to buy and maintain
they've become increasingly reliant on tech to make them efficient rather than being designed efficiently
They cause excessive wear on infrastructure
They're less safe for a pedestrian impact.

[ZedLeg]

Biggy Stardust said:

ZedLeg said:

Biggy Stardust said:

Evanivitch said:

But their position isn't all about emissions. Take for example the ability of a nearly 3t SUV to demolish barriers protecting civilians or even other road users.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66120...

Blame the driver, not the vehicle.

You don’t think that nearly 3 tonnes is excessive for a vehicle that’s being driven by people with the minimum standard of training?

I massively dislike SUVs & the fashion trend for having them. I also massively dislike the standard of driving of many drivers.

Nevertheless, lack of control of the vehicle is 100% the fault of the driver. My understanding is that the police & courts take a similar view.

I agree, I also think that there's no good reason for modern cars to be so massive.

[Strangely Brown]

ZedLeg said:

Just off the top of my head

They take up more space

For the trend in vehicles overall, yes. In the case of SUVs their footprint is no more than that of a "normal" car, many of which share a floorpan.

ZedLeg said:

They are more expensive to buy and maintain

That is entirely the choice of the owner. Nothing whatsoever to do with the protesters, or you.

ZedLeg said:

they've become increasingly reliant on tech to make them efficient rather than being designed efficiently

Crap. It's a combination of both that has seen the improvements.

ZedLeg said:

They cause excessive wear on infrastructure

Define excessive.
BEVs have a greater impact through their greater mass. Should we just abandon them and everyone goes back to driving an Austin 7?

ZedLeg said:

They're less safe for a pedestrian impact.

Compared to what?

Edited by Strangely Brown on Monday 8th January 12:45

[eldar]

ZedLeg said:

Biggy Stardust said:

Evanivitch said:

But their position isn't all about emissions. Take for example the ability of a nearly 3t SUV to demolish barriers protecting civilians or even other road users.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66120...

Blame the driver, not the vehicle.

You don’t think that nearly 3 tonnes is excessive for a vehicle that’s being driven by people with the minimum standard of training?

What is wrong with a minimum standard of training? A test to demonstrate that standard has been met. I suspect your requirement will be every driver will exceed average standards.

What precisely, is nearly three tons?

Your chirpy little one liners, as usual, show your lack of thought.

[bigothunter]

ZedLeg said:

Just off the top of my head

They take up more space

Which is significant in tight car parks but the size difference is mostly irrelevant elsewhere.

ZedLeg said:

They are more expensive to buy and maintain

That's the owner's choice. Should choice be restricted?

ZedLeg said:

they've become increasingly reliant on tech to make them efficient rather than being designed efficiently

Overweight like almost all modern cars. What's wrong with utilising he benefits of technology?

ZedLeg said:

They cause excessive wear on infrastructure

Marginal impact. Nothing like 44 tonne or even 12 tonne trucks.

ZedLeg said:

They're less safe for a pedestrian impact.

Theoretically yes. But is there any evidence to endorse that assertion? Could better visibility of pedestrians offset additional mass?

[ZedLeg]

As usual the rush to make the forum lefty look stupid has led some to assert things I haven't said.

My point isn't just about SUVs, it's about all personal vehicles.

I've not said that the current test is bad, but considering how much driving has changed it's probably a bit outdated.

I said something that I assumed was fairly well accepted (cars are becoming unmanageably big) and didn't expect much push back on but here we are

[bigothunter]

ZedLeg said:

I agree, I also think that there's no good reason for modern cars to be so massive.

Apart from regulations forcing crash structure and a myriad of safety systems.

Apart from customer demands for additional features. Air conditioning is heavy but virtually universal.

Sackcloth and ashes doesn't sell cars.

[bigothunter]

ZedLeg said:

I said something that I assumed was fairly well accepted (cars are becoming unmanageably big) and didn't expect much push back on but here we are

That's what the customer demands. Customers buy cars.

[Digga]

ZedLeg said:

Biggy Stardust said:

Evanivitch said:

But their position isn't all about emissions. Take for example the ability of a nearly 3t SUV to demolish barriers protecting civilians or even other road users.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66120...

Blame the driver, not the vehicle.

You don’t think that nearly 3 tonnes is excessive for a vehicle that’s being driven by people with the minimum standard of training?

fk me!

If you want to go down that cul de sac, may I present sir with the 4x4 tractor and trailer combo. Which, if local evidence is any indication, any tit from 16yo can drive around here and watch TikTok at the same time. Must be nearly 30 tonne up some of these.

[eldar]

ZedLeg said:

As usual the rush to make the forum lefty look stupid has led some to assert things I haven't said.

My point isn't just about SUVs, it's about all personal vehicles.

I've not said that the current test is bad, but considering how much driving has changed it's probably a bit outdated.

I said something that I assumed was fairly well accepted (cars are becoming unmanageably big) and didn't expect much push back on but here we are

What you think you're saying doesn't always match with what appears.

The driving test is evolving, and has done since its inception. Are you genuinely unaware of that?

If cars were unmanageably big, people wouldn't buy them, they wouldn't be able to, you know, manage them.

I know you adopt the witty lefty mantle, but sometimes it just makes you look a rather lumpen smartarse.

[bigothunter]

eldar said:

What you think you're saying doesn't always match with what appears.

The driving test is evolving, and has done since its inception. Are you genuinely unaware of that?

If cars were unmanageably big, people wouldn't buy them, they wouldn't be able to, you know, manage them.

I know you adopt the witty lefty mantle, but sometimes it just makes you look a rather lumpen smartarse.

Witticism without substance

[WarrenB]

bigothunter said:

ZedLeg said:

I agree, I also think that there's no good reason for modern cars to be so massive.

Apart from regulations forcing crash structure and a myriad of safety systems.

Apart from customer demands for additional features. Air conditioning is heavy but virtually universal.

Sackcloth and ashes doesn't sell cars.

O/T, but are these safety systems making worse drivers? Girl at work struggles with her wipers because 'they were automatic on the car I learned in'. Same with the lights. She was driving round with just the DRLs for a week because she didn't know how to turn them on. With even the most basic cars now being able to stop and steer for you in an emergency it's creating a load of drivers that can't stop and steer themselves out of danger.