Another prove your innocence case

Another prove your innocence case

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Discussion

irocfan

40,694 posts

191 months

Monday 29th April 2019
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I'll be massively surprised if this isn't greeted with outrage in some quarters....

steveatesh

4,903 posts

165 months

Monday 29th April 2019
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irocfan said:
I'll be massively surprised if this isn't greeted with outrage in some quarters....
Yup!

anonymous-user

55 months

Monday 29th April 2019
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There are legitimate concerns it’ll put people (not just women) off coming forward (who’d want someone going through their phone?), but beyond that the comments from groups / charities are over the top.

I don’t see what other choice there is in the digital age. We’ve seen the effect of not doing so with certain cases.

A lot of the time it won’t be necessary as examining the suspect’s phone will reveal communications from the complainant. The issue is when the suspect may claim there’s evidence that he / she deleted from something like Facebook messenger where it’s really hard and slow to get FB to release any information.

amusingduck

9,398 posts

137 months

Monday 29th April 2019
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La Liga said:
There are legitimate concerns it’ll put people (not just women) off coming forward (who’d want someone going through their phone?), but beyond that the comments from groups / charities are over the top.

I don’t see what other choice there is in the digital age. We’ve seen the effect of not doing so with certain cases.

A lot of the time it won’t be necessary as examining the suspect’s phone will reveal communications from the complainant. The issue is when the suspect may claim there’s evidence that he / she deleted from something like Facebook messenger where it’s really hard and slow to get FB to release any information.
Agreed. I wouldn't willingly give my phone to anyone for inspection, but what other choice is there?

saaby93

Original Poster:

32,038 posts

179 months

Monday 29th April 2019
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amusingduck said:
Agreed. I wouldn't willingly give my phone to anyone for inspection, but what other choice is there?
Doesnt the defendant already have to do that?

Gameface

16,565 posts

78 months

Monday 29th April 2019
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If you've been raped, having someone looking at your phone is the least of your worries, especially if it helps secure a conviction against the perpetrator... IMO.

anonymous-user

55 months

Monday 29th April 2019
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Gameface said:
If you've been raped, having someone looking at your phone is the least of your worries, especially if it helps secure a conviction against the perpetrator... IMO.
That’s one way of looking at it

Another way is that in the aftermath of a rape/sexual assault it then piles on indignity after indignity on the victim. There are already very invasive tests that are done on their bodies at hospitals, now they have to open to their private conversations, photos etc?

And what is ruled admissible in court? Are we going to have defence teams combing through victims phones to find evidence of ‘unvirtuous’ behaviour like nude photos etc-like some do when parading victims underwear around at the moment?

Gameface

16,565 posts

78 months

Monday 29th April 2019
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cookie118 said:
That’s one way of looking at it

Another way is that in the aftermath of a rape/sexual assault it then piles on indignity after indignity on the victim. There are already very invasive tests that are done on their bodies at hospitals, now they have to open to their private conversations, photos etc?
Rape/personal hospital tests compared to checking a phone.

I'm sorry but I see no comparison. They are worlds apart.

Henners

12,231 posts

195 months

Monday 29th April 2019
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cookie118 said:
...like some do when parading victims underwear around at the moment?
Jeeeze is that common place here now?! I’d heard of it in the US but not here.

anonymous-user

55 months

Monday 29th April 2019
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Henners said:
Jeeeze is that common place here now?! I’d heard of it in the US but not here.
Ah-the story I was thinking of was in Ireland, but too often it seems like the ‘promiscuity’ or ‘virtue’ of the victim still seems to be seen as a legitimate defence.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46207304

Bigends

5,439 posts

129 months

Monday 29th April 2019
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Its not just rape investigations that could be affected - the new consent forms are being rolled out for use in any criminal investigation where access to phone and social media data could form a reasonable line of enquiry - I presume whether or not there is a reasonable line of enquiry may not be known until data has actually been accessed. So, it wont just be rape investigations affected, its potentially assaults, theft, fraud and many other offences where victims and suspects may have had some previous contact.

anonymous-user

55 months

Monday 29th April 2019
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Gameface said:
Rape/personal hospital tests compared to checking a phone.

I'm sorry but I see no comparison. They are worlds apart.
Their not the same, I never said they were. But it’s yet another invasion on the victim. Another potential indignity. These already get heaped on victims and now we are adding another to the pile?

Gameface

16,565 posts

78 months

Monday 29th April 2019
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I don't conflate gathering evidence to help secure a rape conviction, with an indignity. Sorry.


saaby93

Original Poster:

32,038 posts

179 months

Monday 29th April 2019
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Can we find another term for alleged victims until the case is decided one way or the other?
The accused can be a victim too

andy_s

19,423 posts

260 months

Monday 29th April 2019
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cookie118 said:
Their not the same, I never said they were. But it’s yet another invasion on the victim. Another potential indignity. These already get heaped on victims and now we are adding another to the pile?
That's nature of testing the evidence, both ways; otherwise we just take people at their word, probably not a good thing...

Murph7355

37,842 posts

257 months

Monday 29th April 2019
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cookie118 said:
Their not the same, I never said they were. But it’s yet another invasion on the victim. Another potential indignity. These already get heaped on victims and now we are adding another to the pile?
And of the indignity of being falsely accused?

Derek Smith

45,837 posts

249 months

Monday 29th April 2019
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It is invasive, and yet another indignity for the victim of a rape to endure in the investigation. The content will probably be disclosed to the defence and shared with the offender.

The media have been at their best at over-hyping this. In the vast majority of case it will not be relevant. The CPS, for it is they who make such decisions in the main, have had losses in court with defences using such matters to secure an element of doubt. The CPS have to react to the situation.


Dr Jekyll

23,820 posts

262 months

Monday 29th April 2019
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Derek Smith said:
It is invasive, and yet another indignity for the victim of a rape to endure in the investigation. The content will probably be disclosed to the defence and shared with the offender.

The media have been at their best at over-hyping this. In the vast majority of case it will not be relevant. The CPS, for it is they who make such decisions in the main, have had losses in court with defences using such matters to secure an element of doubt. The CPS have to react to the situation.
'element of doubt' would be something of an understatement in some recent rape cases.

otolith

56,512 posts

205 months

Monday 29th April 2019
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Victim is likely to be without their phone for a substantial amount of time.

The Surveyor

7,578 posts

238 months

Monday 29th April 2019
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Virtually everything on anybody's phone has already been shared with somebody, every text message sent has a recipient, every 'private' conversation is made between two or more people, there is very little actually 'private' on our phones.

Surely it has to be better for any victim to disclose their phone data to the police in a controlled and compassionate environment, rather that worrying about what may be presented coldly from a defence team later in an investigation.