Tommy Robinson attacked at McDonald’s

[IforB]

del mar said:

IforB said:

You really cannot see beyond your own prejudice can you?

What an odious sort you are.

Perhaps you could point that out to me without name calling ?

Not really. You don’t deserve anything better I’m afraid. Your views are odious. There’s no disputing that.

[Alpinestars]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

Alpinestars said:

Yep.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/what-do-we...

You should note that type 2 is much more prevalent than type 1.

Now have a go at answering my original question.

You might also want to consider that the last figures I can find show that c5% of paedophiles in jail in England and Wales (might be the UK, I can’t remember), are Muslim. White men are over represented.

That seems to support the idea that there's some cultural background to it? 75% of group abusers are Asian?! That's actually far higher than I would have expected.

And you’ve overlooked the 100% for type 2?

Type 2 is much more prevalent.

What you might conclude about preference, is that, white men are generally interested in (prepubescent) children, and Asian men are only interested in (pubescent) children.

[JuanCarlosFandango]

Countdown
So is it a problem with taxi drivers in general?

Yes they were vulnerable but that does appearto be suggesting that any group would take advantage of that vulnerability. The statistics posted by Alpinestars seem to show otherwise.

Any links to these more reasonable explanations? I'm genuinely interested to hear them.

The Catholic paedophile problem appears to be a bit deeper than certain individuals. There were some serious institutional failings and utterly despicable attempts to cover them up. As there were with the BBC. I don't see why it is suddenly appallingly racist to ask if the same might be true of certain groups within either Islam or the wider Asian community?

Countdown said:

i was referring to the alcohol, the drugs, and the sex outside of marriage when i was referring ot integration, not the rape of underage girls. Unlike other posters i don't believe raping underage girls is unique to ANY culture.

Is that British culture to you?

[JuanCarlosFandango]

Alpinestars said:

And you’ve overlooked the 100% for type 2?

Type 2 is much more prevalent.

What you might conclude about preference, is that, white men are generally interested in (prepubescent) children, and Asian men are only interested in (pubescent) children.

I haven't overlooked it. It's there. It's real. You could conclude all sorts of things. Or you could say it is something that raises more questions than conclusions.

I have noted that the vast over representation of Asians in group child sex abuse, which you pointed out, seems to support the notion that there may be some sort of cultural component to this particular type of abuse.

[anonymous-user]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

The Catholic paedophile problem appears to be a bit deeper than certain individuals. There were some serious institutional failings and utterly despicable attempts to cover them up. As there were with the BBC. I don't see why it is suddenly appallingly racist to ask if the same might be true of certain groups within either Islam or the wider Asian community?

Can I ask why you think there were institutional cover ups of multiple child sex scandals?

Let's say Entertainment, Sport, Church and the muslim grooming gangs.


What's the common theme, if there is one?

[Alpinestars]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

I haven't overlooked it. It's there. It's real. You could conclude all sorts of things. Or you could say it is something that raises more questions than conclusions.

I have noted that the vast over representation of Asians in group child sex abuse, which you pointed out, seems to support the notion that there may be some sort of cultural component to this particular type of abuse.

You’re continuing to ignore the bigger problem. Type 2. Why? What’s the “cultural” issue with that?

What about the church abuse, entertainers, etc etc. What’s the “cultural” issue there?

You can continue being blinkered and keep focusing on the 5% problem, or wake up to the 95% problem as well.

[Bill]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

I have noted that the vast over representation of Asians in group child sex abuse, which you pointed out, seems to support the notion that there may be some sort of cultural component to this particular type of abuse.

Culture or opportunity? Many taxi drivers in cities are Asian, particularly in poorer areas.

Vulnerable young girls have been used for sex for years. Occasionally a single case gets to court where some saddo has been caught paying a girl for sex with sweets and alcohol.

For years these girls' plights has been ignored because the authorities are either overwhelmed or simply (much like TR) don't actually give a st about the victims.

This has allowed the situation to fester and expand and these gangs have developed in a community. The link of the community is that they are night workers -taxi drivers, takeaway workers etc. They have a common heritage which is mysogynist but the "Muslim" bit is a side issue rather than the driver.

Simply put, the gangs are the obvious, more easily caught, tip of a wider disgusting iceberg.

ETA: to be clear - the gang element and abuse is much worse than what seems to go on with single abusers.

Further ETA: although it's disturbingly similar to what went on in an 80's frat house in the US...

Edited by Bill on Friday 19th October 07:29

[anonymous-user]

Bill said:

JuanCarlosFandango said:

I have noted that the vast over representation of Asians in group child sex abuse, which you pointed out, seems to support the notion that there may be some sort of cultural component to this particular type of abuse.

Culture or opportunity? Many taxi drivers in cities are Asian, particularly in poorer areas.

Vulnerable young girls have been used for sex for years. Occasionally a single case gets to court where some saddo has been caught paying a girl for sex with sweets and alcohol.

For years these girls' plights has been ignored because the authorities are either overwhelmed or simply (much like TR) don't actually give a st about the victims.

This has allowed the situation to fester and expand and these gangs have developed in a community. The link of the community is that they are night workers -taxi drivers, takeaway workers etc. They have a common heritage which is mysogynist but the "Muslim" bit is a side issue rather than the driver.

Simply put, the gangs are the obvious, more easily caught, tip of a wider disgusting iceberg.

Good post Sir.

TR, and his apologists, want to draw the conclusion that these men perpetuated their crimes against children BECAUSE they are Muslims. They then link this to text from the Koran to reinforce their position.

Any notion that it is for a host of other reasons is conveniently ignored.

[Not-The-Messiah]

Brooking10 said:

Bill said:

JuanCarlosFandango said:

I have noted that the vast over representation of Asians in group child sex abuse, which you pointed out, seems to support the notion that there may be some sort of cultural component to this particular type of abuse.

Culture or opportunity? Many taxi drivers in cities are Asian, particularly in poorer areas.

Vulnerable young girls have been used for sex for years. Occasionally a single case gets to court where some saddo has been caught paying a girl for sex with sweets and alcohol.

For years these girls' plights has been ignored because the authorities are either overwhelmed or simply (much like TR) don't actually give a st about the victims.

This has allowed the situation to fester and expand and these gangs have developed in a community. The link of the community is that they are night workers -taxi drivers, takeaway workers etc. They have a common heritage which is mysogynist but the "Muslim" bit is a side issue rather than the driver.

Simply put, the gangs are the obvious, more easily caught, tip of a wider disgusting iceberg.

Good post Sir.

TR, and his apologists, want to draw the conclusion that these men perpetuated their crimes against children BECAUSE they are Muslims. They then link this to text from the Koran to reinforce their position.

Any notion that it is for a host of other reasons is conveniently ignored.

I will accept that Islam isn't the the only driving factor but I believe it as a part to play.

The main way it has had a influence is the social divergence and difference it creates. When you have different groups it creates a them and us mind set. Which inevitable leads to different levels of perceived worth.

You here them taking about the girls as white slags and so on. Affectively dehumanising them and psychological separating them for any worth within their community.

Its not the direct teaching of Islam although there are things in it that could encourage it. It's the basic fact that it's a fundamental cultural divider.

This is the main reason for me my the mass importation of Islam is a mistake.

[JuanCarlosFandango]

Desolate
The common theme seems to be abuse of power and a cover up within the institutions, and the culture surrounding them.

It seems worth asking if certain institutions or cultural aspects of some parts of the Muslim community are doing the same.

I don't see that asking that is racist or in anyway akin to calling the whole faith irredeemably corrupt and hostile.

Alpinestars
I'm not saying it should be ignored. Child abusers should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

I don't know of anyone saying otherwise and i haven't heard anyone called anti Catholic or anti Irish for saying so about the Catholic church, or anti British for saying it about the BBC.

It's the indignation at the very suggestion it might be something cultural that I find most striking about this issue.

Bill
That would be pretty much my assumption too. Though I am not sure that taxi drivers in general have operated in this way for years. I am absolutely sure that many aren't above taking advantage of a drunk girl and don't care if they're underage, but this coordinated targeting of them seems to be them evil brown folk.

Or am I being naïve about our good old white home grown taxi rapists?

However the insane response to Tommy Robinson saying otherwise suggests he has a point, or at least has somehow hit a nerve and triggered a response far beyond what is a reasonable dislike of a bloke from Luton who doesn't like brown folk.


Any supporters got anything to say?

Is it Islam itself? The culture around it? Certain elements of Pakistani culture? Brown people in general? What is the basis for thinking that this has anything to do with Islam?

[del mar]

Alpinestars said:

How many Muslims do you and the adults know, and how many of them are terrorists?

One and she is not a terrorist, which I guess means there are no Muslim terrorists ?

I don’t know anybody with a holden Monaro, yet their forum is very active ...

[del mar]

Alpinestars said:

Yep.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/what-do-we...

You should note that type 2 is much more prevalent than type 1.

Now have a go at answering my original question.

You might also want to consider that the last figures I can find show that c5% of paedophiles in jail in England and Wales (might be the UK, I can’t remember), are Muslim. White men are over represented.

Have you ever read that link ?

They looked at 57 cases of type 1 and 6 cases of type 2 ?

Hardly a big enough study to draw anything from.

75% of 52type ones were Muslim - we all moved on from Asian Months ago.

100% of the type 2’s where white.

So 39people were Muslim

18 were white.

Others were mixed.

So Muslim offenders make up well over two thirds vs 5% of the population.

It adds that they believe type 2 is more common, and lone abusers more still.

“We should be wary of drawing too many conclusions.”

Yet you regularly offer it up as fact.

[Bill]

Not-The-Messiah said:

I will accept that Islam isn't the the only driving factor but I believe it as a part to play.

The main way it has had a influence is the social divergence and difference it creates. When you have different groups it creates a them and us mind set. Which inevitable leads to different levels of perceived worth.

You here them taking about the girls as white slags and so on. Affectively dehumanising them and psychological separating them for any worth within their community.

Its not the direct teaching of Islam although there are things in it that could encourage it. It's the basic fact that it's a fundamental cultural divider.

This is the main reason for me my the mass importation of Islam is a mistake.

That's a particularly poor argument from someone banging on about "Muslim" rape gangs.

Regards the bit in bold: do you???

[del mar]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

Is it Islam itself? The culture around it? Certain elements of Pakistani culture? Brown people in general? What is the basis for thinking that this has anything to do with Islam?

What happens to a Muslim man when he sees the hair of a 12 year old ?
What does it do to him that makes her want to cover her hair and hide her sexual beauty ?

The wives of some of the Rotherham abusers said it wouldn’t happen to their girls as they are properly dressed.

Islam gives such a negative view of young white girls that have freedoms muslim girls don’t. They are worthless slags, men have urges and needs and Muslim girls won’t have sex before marriage so they look else where.

But as the are worthless individuals it is not love it is sex.

[chrispmartha]

del mar said:

JuanCarlosFandango said:

Is it Islam itself? The culture around it? Certain elements of Pakistani culture? Brown people in general? What is the basis for thinking that this has anything to do with Islam?

What happens to a Muslim man when he sees the hair of a 12 year old ?
What does it do to him that makes her want to cover her hair and hide her sexual beauty ?

What a strange thing to type, sexual beauty, 12 year old?

Also this is the problem that you and TR seem to have, you type a Muslim man, that should read some Muslin men, Muslim people are not one big homogeneous mass the can all be lumped in together like you and Mr Yaxley seem to think.

[TaylotS2K]

del mar said:

JuanCarlosFandango said:

Is it Islam itself? The culture around it? Certain elements of Pakistani culture? Brown people in general? What is the basis for thinking that this has anything to do with Islam?

What happens to a Muslim man when he sees the hair of a 12 year old ?
What does it do to him that makes her want to cover her hair and hide her sexual beauty ?

The wives of some of the Rotherham abusers said it wouldn’t happen to their girls as they are properly dressed.

Islam gives such a negative view of young white girls that have freedoms muslim girls don’t. They are worthless slags, men have urges and needs and Muslim girls won’t have sex before marriage so they look else where.

But as the are worthless individuals it is not love it is sex.

Remember it's OK to call for Fairy Tales to be rewritten because they're 'outdated'......now if somebody called for, say The Quran to be rewritten........

[JuanCarlosFandango]

del mar said:

What happens to a Muslim man when he sees the hair of a 12 year old ?
What does it do to him that makes her want to cover her hair and hide her sexual beauty ?

The wives of some of the Rotherham abusers said it wouldn’t happen to their girls as they are properly dressed.

Islam gives such a negative view of young white girls that have freedoms muslim girls don’t. They are worthless slags, men have urges and needs and Muslim girls won’t have sex before marriage so they look else where.

But as the are worthless individuals it is not love it is sex.

As Bill and Countdown said above that's surely to do with a rather repressive and misogynistic culture (amongst certain Pakistanis, typically in unskilled jobs, not Muslims, Pakistanis or Asians as a whole) finding themselves in a "liberal" society where girls are out alone, dressed to impress and possibly drunk, and otherwise under pressure to have adult experiences at a young age.

Not to do with Islam itself, which is a religion. And which as Countdown pointed out is quite puritanical about such things.

And nor am I victim blaming, by the way. Girls being drunk, vulnerable and scantily dressed does nothing to justify sexual abuse. An unfortunate reality is that in the minds of some people (and not only Muslims by any stretch) it does indicate availability and a loose attitude to sexual relations.

[Alpinestars]

TaylotS2K said:

Remember it's OK to call for Fairy Tales to be rewritten because they're 'outdated'......now if somebody called for, say The Quran to be rewritten........

It’s been rewritten by Hadiths.

[Bill]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

Bill
That would be pretty much my assumption too. Though I am not sure that taxi drivers in general have operated in this way for years. I am absolutely sure that many aren't above taking advantage of a drunk girl and don't care if they're underage, but this coordinated targeting of them seems to be them evil brown folk.

Or am I being naïve about our good old white home grown taxi rapists?

However the insane response to Tommy Robinson saying otherwise suggests he has a point, or at least has somehow hit a nerve and triggered a response far beyond what is a reasonable dislike of a bloke from Luton who doesn't like brown folk.

I don't know the extent of it, and I don't think anyone does. I'd be amazed if there wasn't a degree of sharing girls among other groups of night workers, and more straightforward solitary abuse among Asians.

[Alpinestars]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

Alpinestars
I'm not saying it should be ignored. Child abusers should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

I don't know of anyone saying otherwise and i haven't heard anyone called anti Catholic or anti Irish for saying so about the Catholic church, or anti British for saying it about the BBC.

It's the indignation at the very suggestion it might be something cultural that I find most striking about this issue.

There may well be something cultural about the MO and targets of the gangs, and there’s nothing wrong with trying to understand that.

I assume now that you have some facts, you’re going to also be concerned, and debate, the cultural issues of abuse of young boys (almost exclusively non Muslim in the U.K.), and of young children. What cultural beliefs and traits lead to that sort of paedophilia? Or are you not interested in that?