CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 11)

[gizlaroc]

Roman Rhodes said:

I haven't said that these people comprised the entirety of the march - though perhaps those wanting to march through London on a sunny day should give a little thought to the company they keep.

Get a grip.

You could argue the same for people who go to Mosques where you get a few Muslim extremists.

They shouldn't go because you have a few nutters there.



I chose Muslims as that seems to be your go to 'woe is me' topic.

[rfsteel]

purplepenguin said:

stting in the hedges?

My new Irish neighbours that turned up over the Easter weekend had their extended family arrive last night, Police actually prevented them getting on the field next to the current site, instead allowing them to occupy the local pub car park, all 30+ of them;




Where as the ones from the Easter weekend were free to move this on their site;



To replace this one that was installed over the Easter weekend;



They even had the nerve to fire up the concrete cutter yesterday morning at 8am so they could install a dropped curb to improve access to site;



Think next month and the 2 bank holiday weekends are going to be fun.

Yet some think it's the one gathering in a park in the sunshine are the ones spreading the virus.

[Ntv]

Great to see the demos in London yesterday.

Saw the police being chased out of Hyde Park and getting a bit of a doing without all their protective gear on.

I sense a mere warm up for the summer, when the boys and girls in blue are going to have a fun time!

I also think the BBC's diligent efforts to not cover / cover as little as credibly possible such opposition is counter-productive.

Being labelled a "conspiracist" / "covid-denier" / "covidiot" because you want to see friends and family, enjoy the same quality of life as 2019, and care about mass unemployment says everything about the name-callers.

[Leicester Loyal]

rfsteel said:

My new Irish neighbours that turned up over the Easter weekend had their extended family arrive last night, Police actually prevented them getting on the field next to the current site, instead allowing them to occupy the local pub car park, all 30+ of them;

Horrible scummy bunch of people. I feel for anyone that ever has to deal with these.

[Sanders123]

Ntv said:

Great to see the demos in London yesterday.

Saw the police being chased out of Hyde Park and getting a bit of a doing without all their protective gear on.

I sense a mere warm up for the summer, when the boys and girls in blue are going to have a fun time!

I also think the BBC's diligent efforts to not cover / cover as little as credibly possible such opposition is counter-productive.

Being labelled a "conspiracist" / "covid-denier" / "covidiot" because you want to see friends and family, enjoy the same quality of life as 2019, and care about mass unemployment says everything about the name-callers.

The police have been just as bad as the government and the MSM throughout. They deserve everything they get.

[Ntv]

Sanders123 said:

Ntv said:

Great to see the demos in London yesterday.

Saw the police being chased out of Hyde Park and getting a bit of a doing without all their protective gear on.

I sense a mere warm up for the summer, when the boys and girls in blue are going to have a fun time!

I also think the BBC's diligent efforts to not cover / cover as little as credibly possible such opposition is counter-productive.

Being labelled a "conspiracist" / "covid-denier" / "covidiot" because you want to see friends and family, enjoy the same quality of life as 2019, and care about mass unemployment says everything about the name-callers.

The police have been just as bad as the government and the MSM throughout. They deserve everything they get.

IME most police are really decent people, trying to do a good job.

The problem is they are the agents of the state. I support peaceful protest as we all do, but also know violence is - whatever the self-styled democrats in HMG say - more likely to change policy.

[Nickgnome]

Sanders123 said:

Ntv said:

Great to see the demos in London yesterday.

Saw the police being chased out of Hyde Park and getting a bit of a doing without all their protective gear on.

I sense a mere warm up for the summer, when the boys and girls in blue are going to have a fun time!

I also think the BBC's diligent efforts to not cover / cover as little as credibly possible such opposition is counter-productive.

Being labelled a "conspiracist" / "covid-denier" / "covidiot" because you want to see friends and family, enjoy the same quality of life as 2019, and care about mass unemployment says everything about the name-callers.

The police have been just as bad as the government and the MSM throughout. They deserve everything they get.

The police consist of male and female officers that are obliged to uphold the law.

They deserve our support and respect. Nothing more nothing less.

[981C]

Does anyone know whether the NHS's LFT tests are good enough for international travel, or does one need to evidence testing via an independent body?

[gareth_r]

Nickgnome said:

The police consist of male and female officers that are obliged to uphold the law.

They deserve our support and respect. Nothing more nothing less.

Does that include those members of the police "service" who, according to Her Majesty's Inspector of Constabulary and Fire and Rescue Services, tried to enforce statements made by politicians on the television news, couldn't be bothered to read and understand the law before using it to prosecute members of the public, and were in danger of being seen as "coercive agents of ministers"?

[768]

981C said:

Does anyone know whether the NHS's LFT tests are good enough for international travel, or does one need to evidence testing via an independent body?

AIUI it could be lateral flow if accurate enough, but must be private (at least for returning to England, no idea what the entry criteria are to various other countries).

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-t...

[Nickgnome]

gareth_r said:

Nickgnome said:

The police consist of male and female officers that are obliged to uphold the law.

They deserve our support and respect. Nothing more nothing less.

Does that include those members of the police "service" who, according to Her Majesty's Inspector of Constabulary and Fire and Rescue Services, tried to enforce statements made by politicians on the television news, couldn't be bothered to read and understand the law before using it to prosecute members of the public, and were in danger of being seen as "coercive agents of ministers"?

We should support the police service as a whole.

When areas of that service all short then appropriate action should be taken.

Could you provide a link please so i can read the complete transcript.

[Nickgnome]

768 said:

981C said:

Does anyone know whether the NHS's LFT tests are good enough for international travel, or does one need to evidence testing via an independent body?

AIUI it could be lateral flow if accurate enough, but must be private (at least for returning to England, no idea what the entry criteria are to various other countries).

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-t...

I have recently travelled, back to UK and was required to have a pre flight PCR not LFT within 72hours of departure. No test then not allowed to board.

Also had to evidence booking Day 2 and Day 8 Test kits sent to home. BTW its on or before Day 2 and On or after Day 8.

Self isolation for 10 days except Test to release PCR on or after day 5 got my result 24 hours later.

Flying out similar requirement for PCR.

[anonymous-user]

Well, here's my crackpot conspiracy theory.

The first wave in the UK really was Covid 19. It filled the hospitals and took a lot of the vulnerable. Then it disappeared, much like SARS did and much like Swine Flu.

The powers that be across the world saw an opportunity to move other agendas on.

As we move into the northern hemisphere winter, the ordinary process of flu kicked in and by January the hospitals were getting pressured, as they do every year during a heavy flu season. Except, we didn't call it flu this time, we rebranded it 'Covid'.

By morphing Flu into Covid, you have a predictable annual flow of potential disaster allowing you to justify ever more ongoing draconian measures, ostensibly to protect us from this vicious mutating disease, but ultimately a vehicle to justify climate measures that would otherwise see governments voted out.

Prove me wrong.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 26th April 11:59

[gareth_r]

Nickgnome said:

gareth_r said:

Nickgnome said:

The police consist of male and female officers that are obliged to uphold the law.

They deserve our support and respect. Nothing more nothing less.

Does that include those members of the police "service" who, according to Her Majesty's Inspector of Constabulary and Fire and Rescue Services, tried to enforce statements made by politicians on the television news, couldn't be bothered to read and understand the law before using it to prosecute members of the public, and were in danger of being seen as "coercive agents of ministers"?

We should support the police service as a whole.

When areas of that service all short then appropriate action should be taken.

Could you provide a link please so i can read the complete transcript.

https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/hmicfrs/pu...

[Nickgnome]

gareth_r said:

https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/hmicfrs/pu...

Thank you

[Haigha]

768 said:

981C said:

Does anyone know whether the NHS's LFT tests are good enough for international travel, or does one need to evidence testing via an independent body?

AIUI it could be lateral flow if accurate enough, but must be private (at least for returning to England, no idea what the entry criteria are to various other countries).

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-t...

Has to be a PCR from a recognised laboratory.
Usually requires payment although all the ones I have had in France have been free.

[Nickgnome]

Nickgnome said:

gareth_r said:

https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/hmicfrs/pu...

Thank you

For balance and context see below.



Headline findings

Dedication and commitment

We are grateful for the exceptional dedication and commitment of people in all parts of policing. Officers and staff, special constables and volunteers responded quickly and well to keep people safe and to deal with crime. This included being exposed to even greater risk than usual, adapting to significant changes in their ways of working, and adopting entirely new roles and responsibilities.

Responding to difficult circumstances

Policing has again demonstrated its capacity for responding in an emergency. At both a national and a local level, police leadership relied upon its tried and tested knowledge, structures and processes to address enormous difficulties. Where previous experience or existing measures didn’t meet the problem, new solutions were quickly developed.

Adaptability

Forces had to prioritise the potentially conflicting aims of public service and the welfare of their workforces. Through innovation, flexibility and adaptability, forces generally successfully maximised the protection of staff while minimising the effect on public service.

Assessing risk and planning

Police forces had correctly recognised a flu pandemic as the highest national risk. But they had often viewed it as primarily a risk for health services, not policing. As a consequence, forces had planned in greater detail for other risks, such as terrorism and flooding, in the list of national priorities. However, they quickly and effectively adapted – and continue to adapt – their assessments and their planning.

Communication and change

Governments had to respond quickly, focusing on keeping people safe. Despite close working between the Home Office and national policing leaders, communication about restrictions and regulations was often at short notice and subject to change. Policing faced an extremely difficult situation of fast-paced announcements. At times, the introduction of, and variation to, new legislation and guidance affected the police service’s ability to produce guidance and to brief staff. This inevitably led to some errors or inconsistencies in approach. In this context, policing at all levels did very well to operate coherently and to maintain public support and consent.

Enforcement activity

To secure public compliance with coronavirus rules, forces adopted the Four Es approach of engaging, explaining and encouraging before enforcing the legal requirements. Forces have on occasion encountered difficulties in correctly enforcing the coronavirus regulations, as opposed to securing compliance with guidance. Forces were generally effective in their public engagement about enforcement. We found that they worked hard to communicate about the Four Es with staff, the public and other organisations.

Better use of technology

Most forces improved their use of technology as they adapted their working practices. A significant shift towards remote working has generally been very successful. Benefits have included reduced travel time for officers and staff, and improved attendance (by the police and other organisations) at meetings, which should allow more coherent and robust decision-making. These are examples of changes that could offer long-term benefits to police effectiveness and efficiency.

Long-term impact of decisions

However, other changes resulted in a reduced service in some areas of police work. For example, to reduce the risk of infection, some forces increased the number of crimes they decided not to investigate because they were unlikely to be solved, and reduced their in-person visits to registered sex offenders. While these may have been sensible decisions at the beginning of the pandemic, forces should keep these changes under review and consider the effect on the public of permanently adopting any of them.

Test, track and trace

Officers and staff in some forces did not appear to follow the national requirement for self-isolating for test, track and trace. We were concerned about this, as was the national policing lead for this area, who wrote to forces to make sure they were clear about the requirements on them. Forces must follow the guidance and self-isolation directions when members of the workforce come into contact with someone with coronavirus symptoms.

Criminal justice system

Existing problems in the criminal justice system, such as court delays and backlogs, were exacerbated. Policing, other criminal justice bodies and governments all need to work together to ensure the system can recover from the extreme pressures caused by the pandemic.

Summary

“The police are expected to carry on as normal, when everything is not normal.”
(Police officer, interviewed as part of this inspection.)

Between March and November 2020, the police carried on protecting vulnerable people, answering requests for service, investigating crime, keeping people in custody and enforcing the law. They also stepped into the gaps left when some statutory agencies withdrew or reduced their frontline services. We are grateful to the police service for the swift and effective action taken to deal with the threats that the pandemic presented.

The National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) quickly recognised the pandemic’s challenges, and by mid-March set up Operation Talla (Op Talla). The National Police Co-ordination Centre (NPoCC) carried out the actions needed to achieve Op Talla’s aims. These were to get the most out of co-ordination, communication and collaboration, to provide advice and act as the focal point for government.

At the start of March, requests for service were at about the same level as in 2019. Calls to 999 and 101 reduced as COVID-19 entered the public consciousness in mid‑March and the first restrictions were announced. But while there were fewer requests for service than a year earlier, the police dealt with many calls linked to the pandemic.

As the pattern of criminal behaviour changed, forces rapidly adapted. Some crimes were less frequent. Others were recorded more often, possibly as forces cleared up outstanding cases. Pursuing investigations presented new problems, although we found many examples of forces adapting and coping, often by using technology better. Some innovations proved so successful that they are likely to be adopted permanently.

Most forces followed national guidance encouraging frontline officers to arrest only when essential. With court sittings suspended, custody suite staff were busier as they had to organise remote online remand hearings from police custody. This switch offers some advantages to the process of justice but has passed significant costs to the police. We found it difficult to obtain evidence that decisions were made in the best interests of detainees when they exercised their rights to legal advice and representation provided remotely.

Many forces expressed frequent frustration at the lack of notice they were given about some changes in the law and guidance. Some senior officers told us they were unable to provide timely and clear operational guidance to frontline officers. But some forces were able to point to occasions when, after being consulted by the Government, they influenced some of the changes.

All forces followed the Four Es approach in their policing of the coronavirus regulations. Enforcement was a last resort after engaging, explaining and encouraging. Officers issued fixed penalty notices when dealing with incidents. But the complicated and unique legislative environment resulted in some problems for police enforcement activity.

Forces made a major switch to handling contact with the public online. Forces must set clear standards for online contacts and have the data available to monitor what is happening. We think lessons can be learned from the experiences of other services that have moved further and faster to online contact methods.

Home working became more common for many officers and staff. Meetings with other organisations, such as social care, health and education, were conducted using video technology. Forces generally adapted their processes well. But while online meetings and working at home can suit both forces and staff, they may be storing up problems for the future. For example, forces should be aware of any backlog of annual leave that has built up.

Most forces worked effectively with their formal staff associations and networks to identify and address workforce concerns. But we found little evidence of systems to monitor how line managers were maintaining contact with shielding/self-isolating staff or home workers. Some managers felt overloaded and some occupational health units were understaffed and overstretched.

Police forces routinely plan for civil emergencies, usually as part of multi-agency arrangements. This involves working through local resilience forums (LRFs). But LRFs are designed for co-ordination and leadership during events that are serious, localised and short term, not for a long-lasting pandemic.

Many forces had prepared risk assessments for a flu pandemic, which had been rated as the highest priority national risk. However, police, working with LRFs, had not tested preparations for dealing with a pandemic through exercises as they had done for terrorism or weather-related scenarios. A health-led flu pandemic national exercise had been scheduled to take place in 2019 but was cancelled due to the demands of Brexit planning.

Forces need to consider the sustainability of any temporary measures that change the way they work. They should understand the positive, negative and unintended consequences before deciding if new ways of working should become permanent.

Some of the problems we describe in our report predate the pandemic. New ones have also emerged. All need resource, time and political support to provide a solution. Policing, the criminal justice system and governments must work together to solve these problems.

Continuing to respond to the pandemic

Recommendations to forces

To help forces in their continuing response to the pandemic, we make five recommendations. We will assess the progress against these recommendations in our future inspection work.

[anonymous-user]

Nickgnome said:

The police consist of male and female officers that are obliged to uphold the law.

They deserve our support and respect. Nothing more nothing less.

Poor quality trolling. 1/10.

[richardxjr]

Yawn, gnome time

Spam off.

[Nickgnome]

Haigha said:

768 said:

981C said:

Does anyone know whether the NHS's LFT tests are good enough for international travel, or does one need to evidence testing via an independent body?

AIUI it could be lateral flow if accurate enough, but must be private (at least for returning to England, no idea what the entry criteria are to various other countries).

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-t...

Has to be a PCR from a recognised laboratory.
Usually requires payment although all the ones I have had in France have been free.

UK is expensive. I think i paid nearly £200 but only €70 in Tallinn Estonia for a PCR test.