Discussion
Andy Zarse said:
Including people who are members of rival parties and actively campaigned against Labour at the last election? And what about unions/union members who have had a hand in leadership decisions for a century who are now suddenly disenfranchised?
People vote tactically all of the time in local and general elections. It stands to reason some less than intelligent people who support other political causes may seek to pervert the Labour leadership election.As for the unions, they're still a large proportion of the voting group, however they now no longer wield such a disproportionate amount of power in the election process. What is more important when choosing the leader of the opposition; allowing the unions to choose at will or; giving all members, union or not, an equal vote?
I'll never vote Labour, but I applaud their largely sticking by a democratic process.
janesmith1950 said:
Andy Zarse said:
Including people who are members of rival parties and actively campaigned against Labour at the last election? And what about unions/union members who have had a hand in leadership decisions for a century who are now suddenly disenfranchised?
People vote tactically all of the time in local and general elections. It stands to reason some less than intelligent people who support other political causes may seek to pervert the Labour leadership election.FWIW I haven't spent £3 or £25 that way. Woohoo!
turbobloke said:
janesmith1950 said:
Andy Zarse said:
Including people who are members of rival parties and actively campaigned against Labour at the last election? And what about unions/union members who have had a hand in leadership decisions for a century who are now suddenly disenfranchised?
People vote tactically all of the time in local and general elections. It stands to reason some less than intelligent people who support other political causes may seek to pervert the Labour leadership election.janesmith1950 said:
It stands to reason
Over the years I've heard some almighty crap preceded by that phrase..........janesmith1950 said:
some less than intelligent people who support other political causes may seek to pervert the Labour leadership election.
Why are they less than intelligent?janesmith1950 said:
I'll never vote Labour, but I applaud their largely sticking by a democratic process.
I applaud your definition of democracy.turbobloke said:
How does it follow that such people are 'less than intelligent' particularly following your excuse that lots of people vote tactically in elections.
I was directing my comments particularly at Tory voters joining Labour to try and help install Mr. Corbyn. The concept is flawed as it simply reduces the chances of an effective opposition, the result being a party in power with little resistance. History shows this is not helpful to our democratic wellbeing. It's no more intelligent than the people who 'protest' voted to leave the EU and then complained when it won, as they didn't think it would.Andy Zarse said:
fully endorsed as a tactic by the party leadership. Nowt so queer as Labours.
The Labour leadership encouraged people who are aligned to their way of thinking to sign up and vote Corbyn. That is not the same as saying "hey, you're a Tory, but sign up and vote Corbyn anyway".Is the Labour constitution flawed, from the point of view of being able to hold tight control on who can be elected leader? Yes, of course it is. Is it anti-democratic? No, I don't see how it is less democratic than, say, the Tory system, which has allowed a very small number of people to install a new Prime Minister for the next 4 years without so much of a nod to the electorate.
I'm a blue through-and-through, however that's not to say I have to be so binary as to hate everything Labour and love everything Tory.
janesmith1950 said:
turbobloke said:
How does it follow that such people are 'less than intelligent' particularly following your excuse that lots of people vote tactically in elections.
I was directing my comments particularly at Tory voters joining Labour to try and help install Mr. Corbyn. The concept is flawed as it simply reduces the chances of an effective opposition, the result being a party in power with little resistance. History shows this is not helpful to our democratic wellbeing. It's no more intelligent than the people who 'protest' voted to leave the EU and then complained when it won, as they didn't think it would.JawKnee said:
silent ninja said:
I think the attack on Corbyn is an attack on democracy. Senior MPs are even tabling their own leadership within the party, like a splinter group. Then they want to apply to the courts to take over the party or possibly launch a sub party. So if democracy doesn't work, a coup and dodgy legal loopholes are the answer?
Labour MPs are fundamentally making a mockery of the system. There is a rather sinister force against Corbyn. The MPs attacking him are essentially Blairites who are conservative in reality. What we had with Blair was no different to what the conservatives offer, just repackaged with left leaning slogans. Corbyn genuinely represents a shift back to the roots. Owen Smith - look at his history, he's a lobbyist for corporations and has no soul. There's nothing Labour about him, but he's clearly going to get the backing of the money men. It stinks
Whetherypu agree with corbyn politics or not, he won the right to lead. This whole thing makes a mockery of democracy and it's our so called elected leaders that are leading this.
Underrated post.Labour MPs are fundamentally making a mockery of the system. There is a rather sinister force against Corbyn. The MPs attacking him are essentially Blairites who are conservative in reality. What we had with Blair was no different to what the conservatives offer, just repackaged with left leaning slogans. Corbyn genuinely represents a shift back to the roots. Owen Smith - look at his history, he's a lobbyist for corporations and has no soul. There's nothing Labour about him, but he's clearly going to get the backing of the money men. It stinks
Whetherypu agree with corbyn politics or not, he won the right to lead. This whole thing makes a mockery of democracy and it's our so called elected leaders that are leading this.
Edited by silent ninja on Tuesday 2nd August 07:26
these Mp's were selected by the unwashed masses executive at a local level and then voted for by same said unwashed masses
Blair lead the party to the right in order to gain power, this is the reaping of the seeds New Labia sowed!
now stop whining and complaining about the mess New Labia made and tell Prescott to get back behind the bar and get my G&T
Bloody oiks
janesmith1950 said:
turbobloke said:
How does it follow that such people are 'less than intelligent' particularly following your excuse that lots of people vote tactically in elections.
I was directing my comments particularly at Tory voters joining Labour to try and help install Mr. Corbyn. The concept is flawed as it simply reduces the chances of an effective opposition, the result being a party in power with little resistance. History shows this is not helpful to our democratic wellbeing. It's no more intelligent than the people who 'protest' voted to leave the EU and then complained when it won, as they didn't think it would.Hosenbugler said:
janesmith1950 said:
turbobloke said:
How does it follow that such people are 'less than intelligent' particularly following your excuse that lots of people vote tactically in elections.
I was directing my comments particularly at Tory voters joining Labour to try and help install Mr. Corbyn. The concept is flawed as it simply reduces the chances of an effective opposition, the result being a party in power with little resistance. History shows this is not helpful to our democratic wellbeing. It's no more intelligent than the people who 'protest' voted to leave the EU and then complained when it won, as they didn't think it would.Hosenbugler said:
(Farage) has to be one of the most important and successfull politicians since the war.
Aha! Hope you got to vote for your £25.janesmith1950 said:
What could be more democratic than allowing people to become party members and vote for a leader of their choosing?
Nothing, but their choice should have been Burnham, Kendall or Cooper. Uninspiring? Absolutely, but rules are rules.Or they should be. Corbyn didn't have enough genuine support to get on the ballot so some easily led MPs were gerrymandered at the 11th hour to push him over the line. And look where it's led.
He was an entryist himself. So it's hardly surprising he's presiding over an entryist debacle which will f
k the party for a long time.Democracy my arse.
Rovinghawk said:
janesmith1950 said:
Rovinghawk said:
Leaving intelligence to one side for a moment, I think it's bloody hilarious.
Why?Even the economic dipstick David "Danny" Blanchflower has given up on the chuntering duffers, exaspearated at their refusal to have a basic economic policy - and by extension any policy about almost anything.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug...
My two pennyworth.
I don't like Corbyn or what he stands for in that I'm wary of extremists and ideologues either of the right or the left.
I think that some of those supporting him are similar In ways to some of those that vote for UKIP.
Fed up with the status quo and fed up with mainstream politics....same old...same old.....I have sympathy with that point of view.
The mainstream politicians have not been listening to or addressing the doubts and fears of the people.
Nobody stopped people joining the LP and voting for someone else.
If they are to lazy to vote ,or unconcerned, until the st hits the fan,that's their fault.
Corbyn has a mandate according to Labour Party rules.
I don't like Corbyn or what he stands for in that I'm wary of extremists and ideologues either of the right or the left.
I think that some of those supporting him are similar In ways to some of those that vote for UKIP.
Fed up with the status quo and fed up with mainstream politics....same old...same old.....I have sympathy with that point of view.
The mainstream politicians have not been listening to or addressing the doubts and fears of the people.
Nobody stopped people joining the LP and voting for someone else.
If they are to lazy to vote ,or unconcerned, until the s
t hits the fan,that's their fault.Corbyn has a mandate according to Labour Party rules.
Andy Zarse said:
janesmith1950 said:
What could be more democratic than allowing people to become party members and vote for a leader of their choosing?
Including people who are members of rival parties and actively campaigned against Labour at the last election? And what about unions/union members who have had a hand in leadership decisions for a century who are now suddenly disenfranchised? janesmith1950 said:
turbobloke said:
How does it follow that such people are 'less than intelligent' particularly following your excuse that lots of people vote tactically in elections.
I was directing my comments particularly at Tory voters joining Labour to try and help install Mr. Corbyn. The concept is flawed as it simply reduces the chances of an effective opposition, the result being a party in power with little resistance. History shows this is not helpful to our democratic wellbeing. It's no more intelligent than the people who 'protest' voted to leave the EU and then complained when it won, as they didn't think it would.I should, in theory, be an absolutely stereotypical Tory voter, yet for the best part of two decades, I've felt utterly disenfranchised. If, by dragging the Labour Party to the left, your supposedly less than intelligent tactical voters allow May to move the Tory party more to its natural position on the right, then I, for one, would be unreservedly delighted!
Whatever happens, the imbalance won't stay there for ever. Either the Tories will push it too far to the right, driving voters to a far left Labour party, or the Labour party gets shot of Corbyn and co and moves back towards the centre. We can only hope that Corbyn being in power now has bought May enough time to fix the future of the country.
silent ninja said:
I think the attack on Corbyn is an attack on democracy. Senior MPs are even tabling their own leadership within the party, like a splinter group. Then they want to apply to the courts to take over the party or possibly launch a sub party. So if democracy doesn't work, a coup and dodgy legal loopholes are the answer?
Labour MPs are fundamentally making a mockery of the system. There is a rather sinister force against Corbyn. The MPs attacking him are essentially Blairites who are conservative in reality. What we had with Blair was no different to what the conservatives offer, just repackaged with left leaning slogans. Corbyn genuinely represents a shift back to the roots. Owen Smith - look at his history, he's a lobbyist for corporations and has no soul. There's nothing Labour about him, but he's clearly going to get the backing of the money men. It stinks
Whetherypu agree with corbyn politics or not, he won the right to lead. This whole thing makes a mockery of democracy and it's our so called elected leaders that are leading this.
He won the right to leadLabour MPs are fundamentally making a mockery of the system. There is a rather sinister force against Corbyn. The MPs attacking him are essentially Blairites who are conservative in reality. What we had with Blair was no different to what the conservatives offer, just repackaged with left leaning slogans. Corbyn genuinely represents a shift back to the roots. Owen Smith - look at his history, he's a lobbyist for corporations and has no soul. There's nothing Labour about him, but he's clearly going to get the backing of the money men. It stinks
Whetherypu agree with corbyn politics or not, he won the right to lead. This whole thing makes a mockery of democracy and it's our so called elected leaders that are leading this.
Edited by silent ninja on Tuesday 2nd August 07:26
And was then s
t at it for 9 months.Pretty much his whole workforce said so - some of whom put him up as leader as regret it
He wouldn't get a shot at leader now if it was a new vote
He is destroying the party - no one else - Corbyn & McDonnell & McClusky are destroying the party.
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