CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 11)

[anonymous-user]

soofsayer said:

spookly said:

soofsayer said:

So how do you two (rr and gnomeo) explain the disappearance of flu in 2020? It more or less vanished from all healthcare statistics.

What happened that makes you so sure it did?

I do wonder...

Gets two chances to reply...

I was in two minds whether to reply. Doh, what a giveaway...

Seems like the thread where some things are overthought and others under.

[johnboy1975]

RSbandit said:

So single figure death numbers last two days, what's gonna change/improve in the next month...that's about as good as its gonna get surely. Less than half a % of normal daily deaths, could easily bring the whole timetable forward by three weeks at this point anyone care to argue otherwise?

This.

Media should be asking this at a briefing (we must be due one.....maybe Boris is busy? )

Why would it be safe to unlock with 2000 cases and 6 deaths on May 17, but its not safe to unlock with 2000 cases and 6 deaths on <insert date> 26 April?

I guess they hope to drive cases even lower (towards zerocovid - if that doesn't work and they go up slightly (due to increased mixing or increased testing) - what will they do?

With 32 hospitisations of the vaccinated over the psst few months, the vaccine should really be our way out. Although I see full fact fact checked this and said it was misleading (but then used a different set of figures which were almost as good (and I can't see whats wrong with the original figures quoted) )

https://fullfact.org/health/32-vaccinated-hospital...

[Nickgnome]

gizlaroc said:

I don't use that word very often.


But when it comes to you pulling me up on a reply as to why I am wondering what the hell we are playing at because we have family who have really suffered then you deserve it.

I didn't even know he was trying to get an appointment till I got a call from my mum asking to pick her up from the hospital as they were keeping him in.
He is/was a healthy 75 year old bloke as far as I knew.


I said at the time the loss of my father in law, a good mate who I saw more often than most of my mates as we worked on cars together all the time, and then my old man being diagnosed with lung cancer in a matter of weeks, was what got me starting to really question what we were up to.


I was responding to why I am suspect of things going on. I was explaining why, and you felt the need to mock my father in law dying and my father being diagnosed late with lung cancer? Classy.

I know this is hard as Cancer is an horrible way for any of us to die. It's been prevalent in my family history so who knows where I may be in a few years. I am lucky as I have zero fear of death just maybe the manner. I can say that I may be a client of Dignitas one day.

At my age I see from time to time friends dying some from Cancer and now a couple from Covid . It is hard but it is what happens.

How can you know that your father in law would have survived?

[Haigha]

soofsayer said:

So how do you two (rr and gnomeo) explain the disappearance of flu in 2020? It more or less vanished from all healthcare statistics.

What happened that makes you so sure it did?

That's masks of course, flu just can't get past them.
On the other hand covid is like arse gas and basically to guarantee no transmission requires full-blown gas masks, and therefore although absolutely necessary the paper ones only managed to filter 95 percent of covid. Without them millions would have died of covid instead of 127k.

[ChocolateFrog]

poo at Paul's said:

markyb_lcy said:

Obsolete Driver said:

markyb_lcy said:

That’s quite the pivot from “historical vaccines are safe so this one must be” and “vaccines can’t possibly be more dangerous than the virus they seek to vaccinate against”, to “paracetamol can kill”.

Sorry, are you saying the vaccination is more dangerous than the virus?

For some age groups, and some vaccines, it demonstrably is.

I just don't think that is true. I would welcome you to demonstrate that it is.

I've had Covid.

In my 30's.

How is the Astra vaccine NOT more dangerous to me than Covid?

[gizlaroc]

Nickgnome said:

I know this is hard as Cancer is an horrible way for any of us to die. It's been prevalent in my family history so who knows where I may be in a few years. I am lucky as I have zero fear of death just maybe the manner. I can say that I may be a client of Dignitas one day.

At my age I see from time to time friends dying some from Cancer and now a couple from Covid . It is hard but it is what happens.

How can you know that your father in law would have survived?

I don't.

However, they did say when they first saw it "I think we have caught it in time." but then came back after the biopsy and further scans a couple of days later and said, we think we may have missed the opportunity to do something.



He is cool about it, I am cool he is cool, but the reality is that was the point when, I had just lost my father in law too literally 4 days before, I started to question why we were doing what we were doing, and started to have a different attitude to those who were questioning too.


I was simply explaining why I went from follow the rules, they are doing it for the best, to starting to look for more info, as it seemed many were saying what we are doing is not right.

[anonymous-user]

Nickgnome said:

soofsayer said:

So how do you two (rr and gnomeo) explain the disappearance of flu in 2020? It more or less vanished from all healthcare statistics.

What happened that makes you so sure it did?

Why should I know or care for that matter.

Maybe as Flu is passed person to person, less personal contact means less flu.

I did have my Flu jab which I've done for the last few years mainly to appease my GP practice. I am one of those resilient types that just do not get ill save for self inflicted sports injuries.

Iv'e had both AZ with zero side effects.

For my now, Eu based business i find workarounds and i can't deny that Covid has cost me a few bob. Think nice Ferrari as this is a car forum.

I try not to wallow in self pity and group hysteria.

Glad my Daughter takes after her old man.

So you don’t have any view or understanding about the fact that flu disappeared in 2020, just blindly accept that that’s what you’re told so thats that. You believe it doesn’t matter, really? Is that because as far as you are concerned all that matters is covid?

Of course under reporting or hiding flu cases matters, we are following the science....data not dates, remember?

After your first two sentences the rest is piffle and irrelevant to the question I asked.

[anonymous-user]

Roman Rhodes said:

gizlaroc said:

tangerine_sedge said:

gizlaroc said:

None of us know what is going on. Anyone who says they do is a tt, no matter which angle they are coming from.

And yet you have loads of posts in this thread repeating crap you've found in the lower reaches of the interwebs all proclaiming to SpEak THe TrUTh!

I have posted stuff I have found interesting.

I simply don't believe that the death rate is anything close to what they are saying.

There was 38,000,000 million flu cases in the states for the flu season of 2019/20 and for 2020/21 this had dropped to 1,822 tells me that most of these so called Covid cases are just flu. In fact Covid is just another Influenza type infection, sure it maybe deadly for many, but so are new flu strains.

I'm not blaming the government for locking down last year, with the images we were seeing with people dying on the streets in Wuhan they had to do something.

But the figures are BS, the PCR tests are BS, and the fact we are still locked down is BS.

And to be vaccinating everyone where there is a survival rate is over 99% for those over 75 years old, who actually get Covid, is definitely BS.


We seem to have given up on everyone else, that is why I'm now getting so annoyed.


My wife's father, is now dead because his hospital appointments were cancelled. Died September.
My father spent from last April trying to get to see the doctor, took himself to A&E in September as still couldn't get an appointment with the Doctors even then. Turns out he has lung cancer and missed it by a couple of months.
My daughter's husband's uncle missed cancer treatment and died a few weeks back, in his early 50's.


And yet we seem to only give a fk about Covid.

Why?



We have businesses collapsing all over the country, we have suicide rates going through the roof, my wife sits on a national autism board for children and some of the stories she hears are heartbreaking.
We have head teachers telling us that many of the girls now have eating disorders and self harming.
We have people coming into our shop who look broken, they have been scared to death, and feel like they have been duped.


Why?





So yeah, I have been doing as much research as possible, as it is smelling a bit fishy to me.

I will post stuff up, I want people's thoughts on what others are saying. If you're happy to simply take in everything the government and MSM tell you without asking questions then great, but I disagree with some of the things they are doing and think we will seriously regret them and look back in horror.



What do you class as the "lower reaches of the internet"?
Most of the stuff I have found is simply not one of the first 5 results on a google search, but is being discussed at length on twitter etc.


I also have some good mates in the NHS who seem to think this is all a sham too, not saying there is not an issue, but have no idea why we are responding like we are.

I'm not saying there isn't a bad epidemic here, but the reaction, the "let's vaccinate everyone" mentality is just bizarre, and when things seem bizarre the reality is often much weirder.

Booker Prize for Fiction entry?

Are you a sociopath?

[Oakey]

gizlaroc said:

I don't use that word very often.


But when it comes to you pulling me up on a reply as to why I am wondering what the hell we are playing at because we have family who have really suffered then you deserve it.

I didn't even know he was trying to get an appointment till I got a call from my mum asking to pick her up from the hospital as they were keeping him in.
He is/was a healthy 75 year old bloke as far as I knew.


I said at the time the loss of my father in law, a good mate who I saw more often than most of my mates as we worked on cars together all the time, and then my old man being diagnosed with lung cancer in a matter of weeks, was what got me starting to really question what we were up to.


I was responding to why I am suspect of things going on. I was explaining why, and you felt the need to mock my father in law dying and my father being diagnosed late with lung cancer? Classy.

So that information you put up earlier, do you buy into that? Even though one of those named in it believes in the whole Covid 5G nonsense and another thinks demonic possession may be responsible for mental illness? Don't you do any due diligence on the stuff you're posting or reading?

[Boringvolvodriver]

We have said it before about certain posters who seem intent to disrupt or be argumentative for the sake of it

Just ignore them or let them talk amongst themselves.

I want to hear both sides of the discussion in a sensible well presented way but some do not appear to be able to do this.

[isaldiri]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

Interesting

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...

Especially 32

The resurgence in both hospitalisations and deaths is dominated by those that have received two doses of the vaccine, comprising around 60% and 70% of the wave respectively. This can be attributed to the high levels of uptake in the most at-risk age groups, such that immunisation failures account for more serious illness than unvaccinated individuals.

Of course they go on to explain that dying with the vaccine is not the same as dying of the vaccine. What a foolish notion that would be!

For goodness sake, did you actually read the pdf you quoted from or simply cutting out a part that you think proves something?

Those are not deaths of the vaccine or even with. It's modelling of people who might die if the virus makes a resurgence later. Vaccinated (older) people are still overwhelmingly going to make up that group.

[JuanCarlosFandango]

isaldiri said:

For goodness sake, did you actually read the pdf you quoted from or simply cutting out a part that you think proves something?

Those are not deaths of the vaccine or even with. It's modelling of people who might die if the virus makes a resurgence later. Vaccinated (older) people are still overwhelmingly going to make up that group.

I understand that. What it shows is that they are already expecting a resurgence including people fully vaccinated. Then what? The politicians will say it's a new vaccine resistant Guatemalan strain, it's all the fault of those unvaccinated conspiracy nuts etc etc.

Anyone who thinks getting vaccinated and showing a vaccine passport is a route back to normality is sadly deluded.

[Wolfmanjack]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

I understand that. What it shows is that they are already expecting a resurgence including people fully vaccinated. Then what? The politicians will say it's a new vaccine resistant Guatemalan strain, it's all the fault of those unvaccinated conspiracy nuts etc etc.

Anyone who thinks getting vaccinated and showing a vaccine passport is a route back to normality is sadly deluded.

If you only comply a bit harder it’ll get better..

Just do everything they say and they’ll be kind to us eventually..

[JuanCarlosFandango]

Wolfmanjack said:

If you only comply a bit harder it’ll get better..

Just do everything they say and they’ll be kind to us eventually..

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

[Nickgnome]

gizlaroc said:

Nickgnome said:

I know this is hard as Cancer is an horrible way for any of us to die. It's been prevalent in my family history so who knows where I may be in a few years. I am lucky as I have zero fear of death just maybe the manner. I can say that I may be a client of Dignitas one day.

At my age I see from time to time friends dying some from Cancer and now a couple from Covid . It is hard but it is what happens.

How can you know that your father in law would have survived?

I don't.

However, they did say when they first saw it "I think we have caught it in time." but then came back after the biopsy and further scans a couple of days later and said, we think we may have missed the opportunity to do something.



He is cool about it, I am cool he is cool, but the reality is that was the point when, I had just lost my father in law too literally 4 days before, I started to question why we were doing what we were doing, and started to have a different attitude to those who were questioning too.


I was simply explaining why I went from follow the rules, they are doing it for the best, to starting to look for more info, as it seemed many were saying what we are doing is not right.

Thank you for your reply. It must be an emotional time for your family. I understand that it gets us to question what is happening and the decision making in government.

I've never voted Conservative in my life and likely never will even though my life has been in a very successful business.

I see politicians that really are out of their depth. Unfortunately led by a seriously self centred PM.

We cannot turn the clock back and I cannot offer any magic bullet.

Looking at loopy stuff will not help your sanity though.

[isaldiri]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

I understand that. What it shows is that they are already expecting a resurgence including people fully vaccinated. Then what? The politicians will say it's a new vaccine resistant Guatemalan strain, it's all the fault of those unvaccinated conspiracy nuts etc etc.

Anyone who thinks getting vaccinated and showing a vaccine passport is a route back to normality is sadly deluded.

A resurgence that is to a huge degree mitigated compared to spring and winter 2020 primarily due to the vaccinations? that, when it happens, would be a fairly reasonable outcome and one that we can probably live with going forward I'd suggest even if it disappoints some people that their seeming desperation to being locked down again doesn't come true.

[Elysium]

Update on todays data:

1. Tests and Cases. The increase in testing has been pretty slow since the Govt offered weekly LFD to the entire nation. Despite the testing volumes cases are regressing the 18 day halving line.



2. Key metrics. Cases per 100k tests and admissions continue to halve every 18 days. I have added a CFR line to the cases graph, which has fallen from over 3% at the peak to an average of 0.59% over the last 2 weeks.





Deaths are still halving every 14 days but dont really have anywere further to go. Averaging 12 deaths per day in the last week and 19 deaths per day in the week before.




3. This shows all three metrics overlaid. The second graph zooms in on the last 4 months of steady decline.

[Leicester Loyal]

spookly said:

soofsayer said:

So how do you two (rr and gnomeo) explain the disappearance of flu in 2020? It more or less vanished from all healthcare statistics.

What happened that makes you so sure it did?

Haha trust me, God knows why people still reply.

[TheJimi]

isaldiri said:

JuanCarlosFandango said:

Interesting

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...

Especially 32

The resurgence in both hospitalisations and deaths is dominated by those that have received two doses of the vaccine, comprising around 60% and 70% of the wave respectively. This can be attributed to the high levels of uptake in the most at-risk age groups, such that immunisation failures account for more serious illness than unvaccinated individuals.

Of course they go on to explain that dying with the vaccine is not the same as dying of the vaccine. What a foolish notion that would be!

For goodness sake, did you actually read the pdf you quoted from or simply cutting out a part that you think proves something?

Those are not deaths of the vaccine or even with. It's modelling of people who might die if the virus makes a resurgence later. Vaccinated (older) people are still overwhelmingly going to make up that group.

I don't know whether it was intentional, but that was a very misleading post if one didn't click on the link and just took the quoted text at face value.

[hyphen]

Park run are doing the government research event 5k in Surrey. I got an email and thought why not.

Then read what they want me to do. Plus they want me to pay £15 for the privilege... nah, I'm alright ta

Park run test event said:

Please note that you, and any spectators who come to watch you, will need to agree to and do the following in order to take part:   

Take a Covid-19 lateral flow test on Friday 14 May. You’ll be sent more details of how to order a home lateral flow test kit, or book a test at your local test centre, once you’ve signed up
Provide evidence that your lateral flow test was negative to gain entry to the event
Take pre- and post-event home PCR tests, carried out to inform the research. Further information on booking these tests will be sent to attendees prior to the event
Download the official NHS Test and Trace app on your phone ahead of arrival at the event
Wear a face covering before and after the event (subject to confirmation)
Complete a short post-event questionnaire 
Participants only: complete the Reunion 5K in less than 60 minutes