Brexit - was it worth it? (Vol. 3)

[TonyToniTone]

Crackie said:

Few, from either leave or remain, would disagree with that.........good job you managed to get something right, you were heading for the full Helicopter123.

Could well be Helicopter123

[stongle]

DeltonaS said:

Haha, Stongle riding the wave.

Stongle asking others to grow up, because Stongle knows how the world works.

EY, 20 dec. 2021:

Lockdowns Delay London’s Brexit Banker Departures, EY Says
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-20...

Ah, but I do... I laso don't let petty xenophobia get in the way of facts. How's that chip working out for you anyway?

The headcount attrition to the EU is so small, it's irrelevant. London still houses the top 75% of all Europe's highest paid financiers.

As for the "what rules and standards the UK exceeds over the EU", well articles 6 and 7 of CSDR for starts. Actually we refuse to adapt them because the entire world thinks they suck and are bad for market liquidity. What will happen on those 2 eventually, the EU will have to drop them (embarrassingly).

And if you want other examples of rules and regulations, where the UK doesn't slip on banana skins - you can always look at the ECBs record. Illegal bailouts to name but one.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2019-opinion-mo...

So you have the primary financial regulator breaking its own rules and aturnick54 wants to discuss standards. Hahaha. Have another hahaha ha.

[SpeckledJim]

aturnick54 said:

Earthdweller said:

Why would you

My Mrs is in a global medical tech/devices and all their products are sold globally and made to comply with the highest global standard which is usually the US/U.K. regs even they are EU based

They don’t make different quality versions for different markets they make one standard that can be sold anywhere

If the UK vacuum cleaner maximum power regulation is higher than that of the EU, then they can't sell the product in the EU. That's a big market to lose. So instead they'll produce to EU standard and then it can be sold in both markets.

There are 27 countries inside the EU and about 200 outside. Including the UK.

Are the manufacturers going to design for the EU 27 and then just hope it will suit the other 200?

Or is it more complicated than that?

[TDK-C60]

Sway said:

Knew I'd trigger a few. Was always going to bring out a few who should keep their keyboards quiet instead of removing all doubt.

No, not Dyson. Numatic, but don't let that get in the way of assumptions that enable a diatribe.

As for 'British exceptionalism' - they don't need to make a specific UK market product, there's plenty of other markets who don't place arbitrary maximum performance restrictions.

Even if it was a UK market specific product, they already do... Or do the plugs on the kit you buy work across the continent too? Swapping a motor for a higher power rating is an utter doddle.

Numatic doesn't prove your point either.

The biggest Henry and Hettys are 620W, even the Pet one. And the Eco one is only 420W, with the cordless a wimpy 250W. All well under your "repressive" 900W.

Do you have a valid point here or not? If so can you try and make it clearly please?

[aturnick54]

SpeckledJim said:

There are 27 countries inside the EU and about 200 outside. Including the UK.

Are the manufacturers going to design for the EU 27 and then just hope it will suit the other 200?

Or is it more complicated than that?

And who in Nigeria or Panama needs a vacuum cleaner with more wattage than 900W?

They will produce models that meet the regulations in as many markets as possible to cut down production costs. The same applies to cars sold here, safety features which are required to be fitted within the EU are very much likely to also be fitted to UK spec cars (which may also be sold in Ireland, Malta, Cyprus). They are not going to produce a car for every single market in the world, and likewise vacuum cleaner manufacturers are not going to produce vacuum cleaners for every single market in the world.

[Iminquarantine]

Sway said:

Good job we've got a trade deal with 9 of those top ten then...

There's more chance of agreeing one with the last one, now we don't have negotiations kiboshed by the French getting concerned about English language DVDs...

Of those you mention, you now have a trade deal which is vastly inferior to the trade deal you had prior to Brexit.

Or are we going to go to the fancy dress shop, get a horse costume, paint it purple and superglue a horn on it's head and pretend that the non-tariff trade barriers between the UK and EU don't exist?

[Iminquarantine]

TDK-C60 said:

Numatic doesn't prove your point either.

The biggest Henry and Hettys are 620W, even the Pet one. And the Eco one is only 420W, with the cordless a wimpy 250W. All well under your "repressive" 900W.

Do you have a valid point here or not? If so can you try and make it clearly please?

I've used Henrys. Great vacuum cleaners. I didn't realise they were that low wattage. They suck up everything and last forever.

Must throw it in the bin now that I've found out that it isn't sucking up 2 kilowatts of blue passport waving soverignty.

[SpeckledJim]

aturnick54 said:

SpeckledJim said:

There are 27 countries inside the EU and about 200 outside. Including the UK.

Are the manufacturers going to design for the EU 27 and then just hope it will suit the other 200?

Or is it more complicated than that?

And who in Nigeria or Panama needs a vacuum cleaner with more wattage than 900W?

They will produce models that meet the regulations in as many markets as possible to cut down production costs. The same applies to cars sold here, safety features which are required to be fitted within the EU are very much likely to also be fitted to UK spec cars (which may also be sold in Ireland, Malta, Cyprus). They are not going to produce a car for every single market in the world, and likewise vacuum cleaner manufacturers are not going to produce vacuum cleaners for every single market in the world.

I hesitate to call you parochial but there are 450 million people inside the EU and 7,000,000,000outside.

You talk about the EU like it’s the hub/origin/focus of global manufacturing.

It’s a small part of the world. Important, yes. But small. Like the UK.

India alone is three times as many people as the whole EU.

[TDK-C60]

Iminquarantine said:

TDK-C60 said:

Numatic doesn't prove your point either.

The biggest Henry and Hettys are 620W, even the Pet one. And the Eco one is only 420W, with the cordless a wimpy 250W. All well under your "repressive" 900W.

Do you have a valid point here or not? If so can you try and make it clearly please?

I've used Henrys. Great vacuum cleaners. I didn't realise they were that low wattage. They suck up everything and last forever.

Must throw it in the bin now that I've found out that it isn't sucking up 2 kilowatts of blue passport waving soverignty.

The old ones had bigger motors. "In 2014 the EU imposed a limit on the wattage allowed for vacuum cleaners, setting it at 1,600W. In 2017 this limit went down to 900W, so the Henry Hoover’s motor was shrunk from 1,200W to 620W. Even though the Wattage was reduced, the motor is now redesigned to increase its efficiency. It is now equally powerful as previous motors, but makes less noise and consumes less electricity."

It seems Numatic chose to go well under 900W when redesigning it to create a better product.

[Iminquarantine]

SpeckledJim said:

I hesitate to call you parochial but there are 450 million people inside the EU and 7,000,000,000outside.

You talk about the EU like it’s the hub/origin/focus of global manufacturing.

It’s a small part of the world. Important, yes. But small. Like the UK.

India alone is three times as many people as the whole EU.

I hate to bust up your party of bunting made of alternate blue passports and Union flags, but I've been working on projects on the eastern side of APAC for several years. They have generally copied European standards. Occasionally they use American standards. Having worked on projects in that region for quite a while, I really cannot see them suddenly starting to adopt divergent British standards.

At least when I have a video conference with them these days they are not still asking if we are queuing up to buy fuel.

[SpeckledJim]

Iminquarantine said:

SpeckledJim said:

I hesitate to call you parochial but there are 450 million people inside the EU and 7,000,000,000outside.

You talk about the EU like it’s the hub/origin/focus of global manufacturing.

It’s a small part of the world. Important, yes. But small. Like the UK.

India alone is three times as many people as the whole EU.

I hate to bust up your party of bunting made of alternate blue passports and Union flags, but I've been working on projects on the eastern side of APAC for several years. They have generally copied European standards. Occasionally they use American standards. Having worked on projects in that region for quite a while, I really cannot see them suddenly starting to adopt divergent British standards.

At least when I have a video conference with them these days they are not still asking if we are queuing up to buy fuel.

So you’re saying when they design to sell something to 1.3bn people in India, they get 450m in Europe without doing another drawing?

Ideal.

All they need is 20 extra different languages and packaging designs, marketing strategies and importers and and and.

I think my point stands. The EU is small and shrinking.

[Sway]

at the shock and outrage that a hoover being sold under product regs with maximum power ratings is under those maximum power ratings.

Even more amusing to believe that by halving the power, the suction performance is the same - or indeed that if this is the case that the improved conversion of motor wattage to airflow couldn't have been applied to the higher power models...

All whilst still ignoring that everything electrical that isn't super low power has a UK specific version being manufactured just for this market - it's really not that difficult.

[aturnick54]

SpeckledJim said:

I hesitate to call you parochial but there are 450 million people inside the EU and 7,000,000,000outside.

You talk about the EU like it’s the hub/origin/focus of global manufacturing.

It’s a small part of the world. Important, yes. But small. Like the UK.

India alone is three times as many people as the whole EU.

And you leave voters talk like the UK is still an empire and rules the world (of vacuum cleaners). Believe it or not the UK is a small market compared to the EU and the US.

[Sway]

aturnick54 said:

SpeckledJim said:

I hesitate to call you parochial but there are 450 million people inside the EU and 7,000,000,000outside.

You talk about the EU like it’s the hub/origin/focus of global manufacturing.

It’s a small part of the world. Important, yes. But small. Like the UK.

India alone is three times as many people as the whole EU.

And you leave voters talk like the UK is still an empire and rules the world (of vacuum cleaners). Believe it or not the UK is a small market compared to the EU and the US.

And yet every single vacuum cleaner in the UK has been made specifically for the UK market...

[aturnick54]

Sway said:

And yet every single vacuum cleaner in the UK has been made specifically for the UK market...

What like 620W Henry which is well within compliance for UK and EU regulations?

[Sway]

aturnick54 said:

Sway said:

And yet every single vacuum cleaner in the UK has been made specifically for the UK market...

What like 620W Henry which is well within compliance for UK and EU regulations?

Yes, the one that was an enforced redesign imposed on a relatively small but successful manufacturer.

You are fun. You wriggle pleasingly.

[SpeckledJim]

aturnick54 said:

SpeckledJim said:

I hesitate to call you parochial but there are 450 million people inside the EU and 7,000,000,000outside.

You talk about the EU like it’s the hub/origin/focus of global manufacturing.

It’s a small part of the world. Important, yes. But small. Like the UK.

India alone is three times as many people as the whole EU.

And you leave voters talk like the UK is still an empire and rules the world (of vacuum cleaners). Believe it or not the UK is a small market compared to the EU and the US.

The EU is 27 markets, most of which are tiny. Much, much smaller than the UK.

Please try to lift your eyes to the horizon. The future is not old Europe. It’s not new Europe. It’s not even the UK.

We’ve taken the first dangerous, rocky steps towards staying close to where the money is going to be in the next 300 years. The East.

Queues on the M20... Do me a favour. Wake up and smell the coffee. Europe has had its day. 100 years ago. We still have the cosmic good fortune to have decent educations and be speaking English. Let’s try to capitalise on that and share in the long-overdue growth on the other side of the world.

[TDK-C60]

Sway said:

at the shock and outrage that a hoover being sold under product regs with maximum power ratings is under those maximum power ratings.

Even more amusing to believe that by halving the power, the suction performance is the same - or indeed that if this is the case that the improved conversion of motor wattage to airflow couldn't have been applied to the higher power models...

All whilst still ignoring that everything electrical that isn't super low power has a UK specific version being manufactured just for this market - it's really not that difficult.

Are you just on a wind up?

I thought you had a real example of why EU regs were bad but the example you've chosen doesn't support your argument.

There seems to be no push to exceed 900W by the manufacturer you quoted, indeed far from it, then seem happy to be making products at 620W, well under the regs, and they obviously don't see any need to go right to 900W to make an effective sucking product, even their pet one is 620W.

The one they sell in the USA - 620W. Germany - 620W. Australia - 620W. They are different colours and have different names, and no doubt different plugs, but basically it's all the same product, and well within EU regs.

Do you have a good example or not?

[Ivan stewart]

Iminquarantine said:

Sway said:

Good job we've got a trade deal with 9 of those top ten then...

There's more chance of agreeing one with the last one, now we don't have negotiations kiboshed by the French getting concerned about English language DVDs...

Of those you mention, you now have a trade deal which is vastly inferior to the trade deal you had prior to Brexit.

Or are we going to go to the fancy dress shop, get a horse costume, paint it purple and superglue a horn on it's head and pretend that the non-tariff trade barriers between the UK and EU don't exist?

Not sure if serious ?? our country is still being flooded with European goods .. oh well never mind

[Ivan stewart]

TDK-C60 said:

Sway said:

at the shock and outrage that a hoover being sold under product regs with maximum power ratings is under those maximum power ratings.

Even more amusing to believe that by halving the power, the suction performance is the same - or indeed that if this is the case that the improved conversion of motor wattage to airflow couldn't have been applied to the higher power models...

All whilst still ignoring that everything electrical that isn't super low power has a UK specific version being manufactured just for this market - it's really not that difficult.

Are you just on a wind up?

I thought you had a real example of why EU regs were bad but the example you've chosen doesn't support your argument.

There seems to be no push to exceed 900W by the manufacturer you quoted, indeed far from it, then seem happy to be making products at 620W, well under the regs, and they obviously don't see any need to go right to 900W to make an effective sucking product, even their pet one is 620W.

The one they sell in the USA - 620W. Germany - 620W. Australia - 620W. They are different colours and have different names, and no doubt different plugs, but basically it's all the same product, and well within EU regs.

Do you have a good example or not?

Just proves the EU still sucks that’s all !!