Miami school shooting
Discussion
mikal83 said:
rscott said:
Yipper said:
The NRA are correct on their core point -- US states with higher gun ownership rates generally have lower gun death rates. More guns = less death. It is counterintuitive, but true (inside the US). Until people start to grasp that point, and find a strong counterargument (they don't care about other countries), the NRA will just stick to their, err, guns. You're just gonna keep going round in circles.
As for arming teachers -- that may actually have a deterrent effect on mass-shooters. If pupils or ex-pupils see their teachers are armed, some will "think twice" before going on a rampage. Of course, the number of accidental deaths from extra guns in schools will probably far outweigh the number of deterred mass-shootings. But the Americans won't care, as long as the mass-shooting incidents come down. The means nearly always justify the ends, for America.
Yipper, you've been asked for evidence for the claim that higher gun ownership correlates with lower gun death rates, but haven't supplied any. In fact, others have posted research to the contrary.As for arming teachers -- that may actually have a deterrent effect on mass-shooters. If pupils or ex-pupils see their teachers are armed, some will "think twice" before going on a rampage. Of course, the number of accidental deaths from extra guns in schools will probably far outweigh the number of deterred mass-shootings. But the Americans won't care, as long as the mass-shooting incidents come down. The means nearly always justify the ends, for America.
For example,
p1stonhead said:
Assuming the above is an accurate chart, it kills dead any argument against gun control. How can anyone argue against it?
Perhaps people in more violent states are more likely to buy guns for defence?
Perhaps people in more populated states are more likely to die from any kind of injury because they are further from help?
Also, does the chart include suicides?
Dr Jekyll said:
p1stonhead said:
Assuming the above is an accurate chart, it kills dead any argument against gun control. How can anyone argue against it?
Perhaps people in more violent states are more likely to buy guns for defence?
Perhaps people in more populated states are more likely to die from any kind of injury because they are further from help?
Also, does the chart include suicides?
Where does this come from?
p1stonhead said:
Are those near the top 'violent states'?
Where does this come from?
I don't know if this is the true origin, but I know it's mentioned in this which I posted a few weeks backWhere does this come from?
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/...
DurianIceCream said:
gavsdavs said:
No, it's not bullying, it's simply calling the NRA out for what they are. The NRA operate to put weapons which serve no other function into the hands of the general public. What beneficial, social function do they perform ? You don't use AR-15s for target shooting or home defence.
AR-15s are just semi-automatic rifles. You can get them in Canada, you can get them in France, you can get them pretty much anywhere except the UK. They are used for target shooting. There is even a straight-pull version in the UK.... which is used for target shooting, even here in the UK. They are used for target shooting in the US. The NRA is actually middle-of-the-road as far as gun lobby groups go. If you want to see extreme, have a look at the GOA - Gun Owners of America.
As I noted before, the NRA doesn't have _that_ many members. They are successful as they are organised and the do represent the views of a lot of Americans.
p1stonhead said:
mikal83 said:
rscott said:
Yipper said:
The NRA are correct on their core point -- US states with higher gun ownership rates generally have lower gun death rates. More guns = less death. It is counterintuitive, but true (inside the US). Until people start to grasp that point, and find a strong counterargument (they don't care about other countries), the NRA will just stick to their, err, guns. You're just gonna keep going round in circles.
As for arming teachers -- that may actually have a deterrent effect on mass-shooters. If pupils or ex-pupils see their teachers are armed, some will "think twice" before going on a rampage. Of course, the number of accidental deaths from extra guns in schools will probably far outweigh the number of deterred mass-shootings. But the Americans won't care, as long as the mass-shooting incidents come down. The means nearly always justify the ends, for America.
Yipper, you've been asked for evidence for the claim that higher gun ownership correlates with lower gun death rates, but haven't supplied any. In fact, others have posted research to the contrary.As for arming teachers -- that may actually have a deterrent effect on mass-shooters. If pupils or ex-pupils see their teachers are armed, some will "think twice" before going on a rampage. Of course, the number of accidental deaths from extra guns in schools will probably far outweigh the number of deterred mass-shootings. But the Americans won't care, as long as the mass-shooting incidents come down. The means nearly always justify the ends, for America.
For example,
FourWheelDrift said:
p1stonhead said:
mikal83 said:
rscott said:
Yipper said:
The NRA are correct on their core point -- US states with higher gun ownership rates generally have lower gun death rates. More guns = less death. It is counterintuitive, but true (inside the US). Until people start to grasp that point, and find a strong counterargument (they don't care about other countries), the NRA will just stick to their, err, guns. You're just gonna keep going round in circles.
As for arming teachers -- that may actually have a deterrent effect on mass-shooters. If pupils or ex-pupils see their teachers are armed, some will "think twice" before going on a rampage. Of course, the number of accidental deaths from extra guns in schools will probably far outweigh the number of deterred mass-shootings. But the Americans won't care, as long as the mass-shooting incidents come down. The means nearly always justify the ends, for America.
Yipper, you've been asked for evidence for the claim that higher gun ownership correlates with lower gun death rates, but haven't supplied any. In fact, others have posted research to the contrary.As for arming teachers -- that may actually have a deterrent effect on mass-shooters. If pupils or ex-pupils see their teachers are armed, some will "think twice" before going on a rampage. Of course, the number of accidental deaths from extra guns in schools will probably far outweigh the number of deterred mass-shootings. But the Americans won't care, as long as the mass-shooting incidents come down. The means nearly always justify the ends, for America.
For example,
red_slr said:
Looks like Florida has voted to:
Increase firearms purchase age to 21.
Allow CCW in schools, possibly restricted to school employees though.
Allow police powers to remove firearms from someone with mental health issues.
Great... now to stop them being able to legally to own them in the first place Increase firearms purchase age to 21.
Allow CCW in schools, possibly restricted to school employees though.
Allow police powers to remove firearms from someone with mental health issues.
rscott said:
frankenstein12 said:
jmorgan said:
Or think your mate is a bit of a throbber and let them sink on their own.
Nope. You say that now but most people in that scenario even if their mate has been an absolute throbber will come to his defence and berate him after themselves for being a throbber.In this case however the situation is worse as in effect their mate has been attacked for no reason other than he looks like someone the person had a beef with.
There is a great deal of misinformation being touted about gun ownership in the US and it is actually quite tightly controlled depending on where you buy guns from. If you buy from a gun shop there are background checks you have to pass.
You cannot just walk into a shop selling guns pick one up hand over your money and walk out again.
The only time you can buy a gun without a background check is privately and even there some states require a gun shop intermediary to carry out a background check.
33 states don't require private sellers to carry out any form of ID or background check - so nearly 2/3 of all states allow private sales without any realistic checks.
It is entirely at the onus of the person selling the gun to request that the person they are selling to passes a background check before they will sell them the gun.
Edited by frankenstein12 on Tuesday 27th February 13:53
Loskey said:
I think I read that some of the kids at the school who were members of an NRA program at the school had those and used them to protect classmates. Can't really remember correct details.red_slr said:
Looks like Florida has voted to:
Increase firearms purchase age to 21.
Allow CCW in schools, possibly restricted to school employees though.
Allow police powers to remove firearms from someone with mental health issues.
Is this a joke? I thought they recently voted against that but in favour of porn regulation or something equally stupid..Increase firearms purchase age to 21.
Allow CCW in schools, possibly restricted to school employees though.
Allow police powers to remove firearms from someone with mental health issues.
frankenstein12 said:
Loskey said:
I think I read that some of the kids at the school who were members of an NRA program at the school had those and used them to protect classmates. Can't really remember correct details.2. Cant find source anywhere despite item 1.
hmm....
p1stonhead said:
frankenstein12 said:
Loskey said:
I think I read that some of the kids at the school who were members of an NRA program at the school had those and used them to protect classmates. Can't really remember correct details.2. Cant find source anywhere despite item 1.
hmm....
frankenstein12 said:
p1stonhead said:
frankenstein12 said:
Loskey said:
I think I read that some of the kids at the school who were members of an NRA program at the school had those and used them to protect classmates. Can't really remember correct details.2. Cant find source anywhere despite item 1.
hmm....
Gotcha
p1stonhead said:
frankenstein12 said:
p1stonhead said:
frankenstein12 said:
Loskey said:
I think I read that some of the kids at the school who were members of an NRA program at the school had those and used them to protect classmates. Can't really remember correct details.2. Cant find source anywhere despite item 1.
hmm....
Gotcha
rscott said:
p1stonhead said:
frankenstein12 said:
p1stonhead said:
frankenstein12 said:
Loskey said:
I think I read that some of the kids at the school who were members of an NRA program at the school had those and used them to protect classmates. Can't really remember correct details.2. Cant find source anywhere despite item 1.
hmm....
Gotcha
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