How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 2)

[voyds9]

But isn't every EU trade deal bespoke or are they all identical

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_free_...

Is the Guernsey trade deal from 1972, identical to the Ukraine deal from 2008

[powerstroke]

jjlynn27 said:

jsf said:

Its an old slide from before phase one, you can find it on the EU resource page. Barnier was just spouting his nonsense again today about it, which is why it has reappeared.

Merkel just threw Barnier under a bus on that very point. The press conference is here https://youtu.be/y9vr1viKsYA

if you want just the trade deal being bespoke part with that not being cherry picking, go to https://youtu.be/y9vr1viKsYA?t=13m16s

Just watched that. Description of 'threw Barnier under a bus' is on par with characterizing speech by Japanese ambassador as stupid.

At the end Europe's voters will call the tune !! It will be about money and jobs
not a load of taking heads maintaining a project and gravy train ... Merkel's comments will be the first of many from europes leaders , mindful of voter concern ..

Edited by powerstroke on Friday 16th February 18:40

[jjlynn27]

jsf said:

OK, so how would you describe Barnier saying there will be no bespoke deal and no cherry picking being followed by Merkel saying there can be a bespoke deal, something that is not the single market but close to it, and cherry picking isn't what that is?

It completely undermines Barniers position.

How do you not get this? It doesn't do anything of the kind. You are just applying the ever-changing lens to daily events.

Listen to Barnier is saying, from the start and you'll see the consistency. No cherry picking was, and still is, ref to four freedoms. What they are both saying is that it'll be customized Canada type deal. What they are both saying is that 27 members need to agree to a deal. What they are both saying is that the time is running out, but that they are preparing for no-deal scenario too.
TM is still not prepared to spell out what she (UK) wants out of the deal. I know, I know, it's a poker, nope, today it's a bad divorce analogy, where we need to keep our cards to our chest and let the Germans guessing.

As I said, from the same fountain of wisdom as a Japanese ambassador, the ex-chief TPP saying stupid things.

Btw, I'm not up-to-date, are the EU still going to punish us, or are they folding like a deck of cards, so we just deal with Germany, or can some obscure parish in Belgium scupper our deal? Or do we need the deal at all, maybe just implement unilateral drop of tariffs, that's working so well, that no comparable economy is even entertaining of using them? Let's be clear, The brexiteering narrative changes so fast, it's hard to keep track.

[jjlynn27]

powerstroke said:

At the end Europe's voters will call the tune !! It will be about money and jobs
not a load of taking heads maintaining a project and gravy train ... Merkel's comments will be the first of many from europes leaders , mindful of voter concern ..

Edited by powerstroke on Friday 16th February 18:40

Ok, mecanic. But will it be about fishing?

[anonymous-user]

jjlynn27 said:

Listen to Barnier is saying, from the start and you'll see the consistency. No cherry picking was, and still is, ref to four freedoms.

Its not, the UK doesn't want the four freedoms.

Barnier is referring to the UK deal not including services if we don't have the four freedoms. Merkel is countering that.

Its pretty clear from her comments she see's how important it is to have a mutually beneficial deal that provides similar access to each others markets as now, without having the four freedoms of the single market. She specifically says its not the single market, but something similar that works for all parties.

Can you not see how this is an important moment where Germany has said something very positive and not on script? Barnier will not be happy.

[curlie467]

voyds9 said:

But isn't every EU trade deal bespoke or are they all identical

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_free_...

Is the Guernsey trade deal from 1972, identical to the Ukraine deal from 2008

Exactly, they are all tailor made to suit.

Swap tailor made for special, bespoke or whatever superlative fits the moment.

[powerstroke]

jjlynn27 said:

Ok, mecanic. But will it be about fishing?

OH not sure what do you think ....

[Yipper]

powerstroke said:

jjlynn27 said:

jsf said:

Its an old slide from before phase one, you can find it on the EU resource page. Barnier was just spouting his nonsense again today about it, which is why it has reappeared.

Merkel just threw Barnier under a bus on that very point. The press conference is here https://youtu.be/y9vr1viKsYA

if you want just the trade deal being bespoke part with that not being cherry picking, go to https://youtu.be/y9vr1viKsYA?t=13m16s

Just watched that. Description of 'threw Barnier under a bus' is on par with characterizing speech by Japanese ambassador as stupid.

At the end Europe's voters will call the tune !! It will be about money and jobs
not a load of taking heads maintaining a project and gravy train ... Merkel's comments will be the first of many from europes leaders , mindful of voter concern ..

Edited by powerstroke on Friday 16th February 18:40

Yes, all the Merkel and Barnier stuff is just political theatre for the plebs.

Behind the scenes, in diplomatic circles, it is widely known already that the UK is almost certainly going to get a Norway-like, soft Brexit.

We now have to go through one more year of public showboating between UK and EU politicians while they try to sell it to their respective electorates and make it look like "their" win... no doubt followed by a "dramatic late night" signing of a deal about an hour before the deadline next March 2019...

[gooner1]

]

Gloria Slap said:

May started talking and she almost almost said Priceless.

HTF do you almost say something?
Do you say it with an enigmatic wink, as employed by your friendly
Japanese car salesman, the one you get all the info from?

[jjlynn27]

jsf said:

Its not, the UK doesn't want the four freedoms.

Barnier is referring to the UK deal not including services if we don't have the four freedoms. Merkel is countering that.

Its pretty clear from her comments she see's how important it is to have a mutually beneficial deal that provides similar access to each others markets as now, without having the four freedoms of the single market. She specifically says its not the single market, but something similar that works for all parties.

Can you not see how this is an important moment where Germany has said something very positive and not on script? Barnier will not be happy.

Merkel was on from day one that she regrets UK decision. Nothing changed today. She also confirmed that any deal would be agreed by all 27 remaining nations.

I'm still at loss, is today's answering journalist questions part of the punishing the UK or them folding under the pressure from car manufacturers or something else? As for Barnier not being happy; LOL. I would be very surprised if he is emotionally involved to any extent.

So no, I don't see today as anything out of the ordinary. They still want to know what UK wants. There was no answer from May on that.

[The Dangerous Elk]

jjlynn27 said:

They still want to know what UK wants. There was no answer from May on that.

Then they are deaf

[Dr Jekyll]

jjlynn27 said:

They still want to know what UK wants.

While simultaneously complaining about the UK trying to cherry pick.

[jjlynn27]

Dr Jekyll said:

jjlynn27 said:

They still want to know what UK wants.

While simultaneously complaining about the UK trying to cherry pick.

It was nothing to do with 'them'. TM was (not) answering UK journalist question.

Still nothing on; is a punishment, is it a plane, is it a fold? What's the brexiteering narrative for today?

[gooner1]

jjlynn27 said:

Greece being basket case is a result of the almost voluntary payment of taxes. If you want any service, you'll be required to provide, 'the grease'. Yes, hundreds are ok.

There is also the case of the elite in Greece, living in mega drachma properties,, driving
mega drachma car, I dining in top class restruants etc but amazingly
only declaring a pittance of of an income.

More amazing than the above though, neither Goldman Sachs audit or the E.U's
inspectors of said audit, managed to spot this anomaly.
Instead,in order not to undermine the democratically elected Greek government, they, the EU
decided to welcome Greece into it's ever open arms, and expected us to
believe it was all for Greece's benefit, a purely altruistic act.
Do me a fking favour.


EFA.

Edited by gooner1 on Friday 16th February 21:22

[The Dangerous Elk]

jjlynn27 said:

It was nothing to do with 'them'. TM was (not) answering UK journalist question.

Still nothing on; is a punishment, is it a plane, is it a fold? What's the brexiteering narrative for today?

Same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it ever was
Same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it ever was

[wc98]

Mrr T said:

So let me get this straight it’s the fault of the EU not sure who he/she is (I think you mean the other Eurozone countries which is a different thing). For not overruling the democratically elected government of Greece and stopping them joining the euro. So you complain the EU antidemocratic but then blame them for not acting in an antidemocratic fashion. You do follow the irony here?

last time i looked countries didn't elect to join the eu and then it became so. there were set criteria in place that rob and sack,sorry goldman sachs conveniently managed to come up with some wonderous report (after their personal help regarding "restructuring" debt)that greece somehow met all the financial criteria that allowed them to join. if you think anyone of any importance in the eu structure believed that greece met those financial criteria required for joining then i have a bridge going cheap.

edited to add that what happened after greece joined was set in stone. the problem started when the eu was willing to overlook the fact they were financially fit to join. having another country under control of das projekt was more important than fiscal responsibility or indeed the long term welfare of individual citizens.

Edited by wc98 on Friday 16th February 21:07

[jjlynn27]

gooner1 said:

There is also the case of the elite in Greece, living in mega drachma properties,, driving
mega drachma houses, dining in top class restruants etc but amazingly
only declaring a pittance of of an income.

More amazing than the above though, neither Goldman Sachs audit or the E.U's
inspectors of said audit, managed to spot this anomaly.
Instead,in order not to undermine the democratically elected Greek government, they, the EU
decided to welcome Greece into it's ever open arms, and expected us to
believe it was all for Greece's benefit, a purely altruistic act.
Do me a fking favour.

Driving them mega drachma houses might be a tad difficult considering the state of the roads.



Who is expecting you to believe that it was 'purely altruistic act'?

[wc98]

jjlynn27 said:

Driving them mega drachma houses might be a tad difficult considering the state of the roads.

don't know why, seems easy enough with a mega dollar one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20dj5MEmcv4&t=...

[Dr Jekyll]

wc98 said:

edited to add that what happened after greece joined was set in stone. the problem started when the eu was willing to overlook the fact they were financially fit to join. having another country under control of das projekt was more important than fiscal responsibility or indeed the long term welfare of individual citizens.

Before the Euro was adopted there was a long dispute between those EU economists (mainly German) who said a single currency wouldn't work without fiscal union and therefore should be kicked down the road, and those (mainly French) who said a single currency wouldn't work without fiscal union therefore should be implemented to force fiscal union. The whole point was that crises would arise and provide the opportunity for further integration. That's why the rules were bent in order to let Greece in the Euro, it wasn't despite the economic danger but because of it.

[anonymous-user]

jjlynn27 said:

Driving them mega drachma houses might be a tad difficult considering the state of the roads.



Who is expecting you to believe that it was 'purely altruistic act'?

The roads in Greece are awesome. When i was over there our nightly drive up to Delphi was like driving on a new racing circuit. Plenty of EU flags at the side of the road explaining how i paid for some of it.