45th President of the United States, Donald Trump. Vol 3
Discussion
Looket said:
I hate to be the one to interrupt your group therapy session, but for supposedly intelligent chaps you lot seem easily distracted.
While his supporters are laughing at his latest Twitter antics, your camp is lapping it up as gospel in true Machiavellian fashion. Underestimate the man at your own peril.
I am along for the ride. What happens happens. I expect he will be in for two terms even with this book, if there is any truth in the book. Some parts have already attracted corroboration.While his supporters are laughing at his latest Twitter antics, your camp is lapping it up as gospel in true Machiavellian fashion. Underestimate the man at your own peril.
His twitter twits are certainly interesting and I hope he is sniggering when he tweets, the sort of snigger that some sniggers when they are winding people up. Somehow I suspect not.
jmorgan said:
Looket said:
I hate to be the one to interrupt your group therapy session, but for supposedly intelligent chaps you lot seem easily distracted.
While his supporters are laughing at his latest Twitter antics, your camp is lapping it up as gospel in true Machiavellian fashion. Underestimate the man at your own peril.
I am along for the ride. What happens happens. I expect he will be in for two terms even with this book, if there is any truth in the book. Some parts have already attracted corroboration.While his supporters are laughing at his latest Twitter antics, your camp is lapping it up as gospel in true Machiavellian fashion. Underestimate the man at your own peril.
His twitter twits are certainly interesting and I hope he is sniggering when he tweets, the sort of snigger that some sniggers when they are winding people up. Somehow I suspect not.
paulguitar said:
They can't re-elect this muppet, surely?
They definitely can.He will polarise society which will give him a firm base - you only have to read various threads on PH to see how important "winding up lefties" is to some people.
Trump isn't a left or right issue, it's almost not about politics. The bloke is just a pure bellend. What he has tweeted today is humiliating for him - or it would be to a normal person.
desolate said:
They definitely can.
Trump isn't a left or right issue, it's almost not about politics.
It's about "non-politics". Trump labelled himself as a "non-politician". I know of one other senior figure in world history who used the same technique to get elected. I'll let you guess who I might be referring to.Trump isn't a left or right issue, it's almost not about politics.
desolate said:
paulguitar said:
They can't re-elect this muppet, surely?
What he has tweeted today is humiliating for him - or it would be to a normal person. desolate said:
paulguitar said:
They can't re-elect this muppet, surely?
They definitely can.He will polarise society which will give him a firm base - you only have to read various threads on PH to see how important "winding up lefties" is to some people.
Trump isn't a left or right issue, it's almost not about politics. The bloke is just a pure bellend. What he has tweeted today is humiliating for him - or it would be to a normal person.
If the Dems keep on about how he deserted the working man with tax cuts for the rich, if the jobs market doesn't pick up, if he doesn't keep his promises in the manufacturing, coal states, then he may lose more. Lets face it, he's easily distracted when he faces criticism.
That's of course if we ignore Muellers inquiry. Somethings going to come out of that and it's going to affect a lot of team trump and the republicans. Enough I suspect to cause them real issues in the midterms. It's looking like they sold their souls for a brief moment of power, no matter what the cost.
Greg66 said:
It's a very entertaining read. Deliberately so. This is not a dour historical treatise intended to be a work of record. It is a reflection of what the human beings working in and outside the WH told Wolff about what it was like to work in the Trump administration.
The writing style is engaging, charming - so much so that when it becomes caustic (and it does, often) you laugh rather than wince.
There's a semi-disclaimer at the beginning: where he had competing accounts, if he couldn't resolve which was accurate he set them both out (this is usually a conflict between Bannon's story and the Jared/Ivanka story and lets the reader decide. Where he had enough other material to make a call between the two versions, he did so. I took the view that as he claims to have a few hundred hours of tapes, where he quotes someone, he has a tape to back the quote. Of course, the context or nuance of the quote may have been lost or misrepresented between utterance and writing, but not much the reader can do about. And there's a question over whether the quote came directly from the maker, or was relayed through an intermediary.
For the most part (I'd say 60% or slightly more), this book could have been sub-titled "What Steve Bannon thinks of his colleagues in the WH". There is certainly material that came from Jared, but it is less obvious. And there's material from plenty of other players both in the WH (Spicer, Priebus, Conway) and outside (Ailes, Murdoch).
It's odd because it's "new but not new". In many ways it confirms what had been common currency (at least outside the Breitbart/Trump/Trumpette world), but at the same time it provides colour and depth to what had been known. For example, I remember Trump trying to discredit the election result as fixed pre-election day, and announcing plans to set up Trump TV. Together the two were to delegitimise a Hillary win and them to snipe at her constantly. There's some colour about those plans and Trump's discussions with Roger Ailes (Fox News founder) to set up the new channel; Hannity was on board as well as some others. It could of course have been contingency planning, but to me Trump would have preferred a TV career to a Presidential one.
The other big theme in the first half of the book is the dysfunctional WH, with Trump as this vacuous "leader", unable or unwilling to focus on anything approaching detail, heavily influenced by pictures and the last person he spoke to, with no chain of command/management structure under him and no clear vision over what to do. Where there ought to have been a chief of staff, there were three: Priebus (the official one), Bannon (the Rasputin like policy driver) and Kushner (trying to be a moderating force - a "New York Democrat" as he is described). All three hated each other (though Kushner was the most hated) and all three were constantly trying to subvert each other and brief against each other. At the same time Trump woudl spend the evenings raging on the phone to his billionaire chums (I'm assuming Wolff spoke to them, but they wished to remain anon) about the incompetence around him; they spoke to each other, and leaks and rumours abounded.
Now all that, to me, sounds perfectly plausible and a credible overlay on what actually happened at the time. YMMV.
I've no doubt there are errors, exaggerations, whatever. But do those detract from the overall thrust? No, not in my view.
And for the Trumpettes who are sure the Russian collusion thing is going nowhere: Bannon's view is that it won't ended up with Russian collusion, but it will lead to a dirty money trail which will be very uncomfortable for all members of the Trump family.
Pretty much my take on it, apart from it's quite obvious when Bannon has influenced parts, especially the russian collusion. It's not looking that way from outside the fold, but then this was written a few months ago.The writing style is engaging, charming - so much so that when it becomes caustic (and it does, often) you laugh rather than wince.
There's a semi-disclaimer at the beginning: where he had competing accounts, if he couldn't resolve which was accurate he set them both out (this is usually a conflict between Bannon's story and the Jared/Ivanka story and lets the reader decide. Where he had enough other material to make a call between the two versions, he did so. I took the view that as he claims to have a few hundred hours of tapes, where he quotes someone, he has a tape to back the quote. Of course, the context or nuance of the quote may have been lost or misrepresented between utterance and writing, but not much the reader can do about. And there's a question over whether the quote came directly from the maker, or was relayed through an intermediary.
For the most part (I'd say 60% or slightly more), this book could have been sub-titled "What Steve Bannon thinks of his colleagues in the WH". There is certainly material that came from Jared, but it is less obvious. And there's material from plenty of other players both in the WH (Spicer, Priebus, Conway) and outside (Ailes, Murdoch).
It's odd because it's "new but not new". In many ways it confirms what had been common currency (at least outside the Breitbart/Trump/Trumpette world), but at the same time it provides colour and depth to what had been known. For example, I remember Trump trying to discredit the election result as fixed pre-election day, and announcing plans to set up Trump TV. Together the two were to delegitimise a Hillary win and them to snipe at her constantly. There's some colour about those plans and Trump's discussions with Roger Ailes (Fox News founder) to set up the new channel; Hannity was on board as well as some others. It could of course have been contingency planning, but to me Trump would have preferred a TV career to a Presidential one.
The other big theme in the first half of the book is the dysfunctional WH, with Trump as this vacuous "leader", unable or unwilling to focus on anything approaching detail, heavily influenced by pictures and the last person he spoke to, with no chain of command/management structure under him and no clear vision over what to do. Where there ought to have been a chief of staff, there were three: Priebus (the official one), Bannon (the Rasputin like policy driver) and Kushner (trying to be a moderating force - a "New York Democrat" as he is described). All three hated each other (though Kushner was the most hated) and all three were constantly trying to subvert each other and brief against each other. At the same time Trump woudl spend the evenings raging on the phone to his billionaire chums (I'm assuming Wolff spoke to them, but they wished to remain anon) about the incompetence around him; they spoke to each other, and leaks and rumours abounded.
Now all that, to me, sounds perfectly plausible and a credible overlay on what actually happened at the time. YMMV.
I've no doubt there are errors, exaggerations, whatever. But do those detract from the overall thrust? No, not in my view.
And for the Trumpettes who are sure the Russian collusion thing is going nowhere: Bannon's view is that it won't ended up with Russian collusion, but it will lead to a dirty money trail which will be very uncomfortable for all members of the Trump family.
It attacks Trump right at his weakest, his image and his ego.
Got any change lying around? Say 18 billion?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-secu...
Make you a small wall for it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-secu...
Make you a small wall for it.
jmorgan said:
Yipper said:
The Wolff book is almost all gossip and tittle-tattle. It's not a serious book. It is like Woman's Own for the political bubble. When your best headline is that someone eats a cheeseburger in bed, you know there is little proper substance in there. Trump shouldn't really have dignified the book by trying to ban it.
What is your favourite bit from the book and what is the worst when you read it?I have not read it yet so I do not know.
Byker28i said:
desolate said:
paulguitar said:
They can't re-elect this muppet, surely?
They definitely can.He will polarise society which will give him a firm base - you only have to read various threads on PH to see how important "winding up lefties" is to some people.
Trump isn't a left or right issue, it's almost not about politics. The bloke is just a pure bellend. What he has tweeted today is humiliating for him - or it would be to a normal person.
If the Dems keep on about how he deserted the working man with tax cuts for the rich, if the jobs market doesn't pick up, if he doesn't keep his promises in the manufacturing, coal states, then he may lose more. Lets face it, he's easily distracted when he faces criticism.
That's of course if we ignore Muellers inquiry. Somethings going to come out of that and it's going to affect a lot of team trump and the republicans. Enough I suspect to cause them real issues in the midterms. It's looking like they sold their souls for a brief moment of power, no matter what the cost.
paulguitar said:
I think the whole USA is being humiliated day in day out by having him as president. But if they re-elect him in 2020, frankly they deserve to be ridiculed and laughed at by the rest of the world.
Do you think they care?I really dont thing Trump will want a second shot and I wasnt sure about him making the full term but if this thread is a mirror image across America he wll make it easily.
AreOut said:
The Hypno-Toad said:
I'm sorry but with this and the other latest tweet, the blokes clearly gone completely hatstand. This needs to end. Now.
why? It's funny as hell 
Edited by rscott on Saturday 6th January 17:42
Looket said:
I hate to be the one to interrupt your group therapy session, but for supposedly intelligent chaps you lot seem easily distracted.
While his supporters are laughing at his latest Twitter antics, your camp is lapping it up as gospel in true Machiavellian fashion. Underestimate the man at your own peril.
You seem to think he’s being smart. His actions and words over the last 2 years have demonstrated that the man suffers from a severe personality disorder and a very low level of intelligence. He’s certainly not capably of cunning or humour.While his supporters are laughing at his latest Twitter antics, your camp is lapping it up as gospel in true Machiavellian fashion. Underestimate the man at your own peril.
Regardless, to overestimate his intelligence and thereby underestimate his capacity to cause real harm you are the one in a more perilous position. If we are indeed underestimating him at least we won’t be surprised when he does something monumentally stupid to go along with the monumentally stupid things he’s already said.
Funkycoldribena said:
Do you think they care?
I really don't thing Trump will want a second shot and I wasnt sure about him making the full term but if this thread is a mirror image across America he wll make it easily.
His ego will not let him think of one, he must out do Obama, or equal.I really don't thing Trump will want a second shot and I wasnt sure about him making the full term but if this thread is a mirror image across America he wll make it easily.
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