How many have been vaccinated so far?

[djc206]

272BHP said:

Sorry my memory failed me, it was in fact a government goal a few months ago to reach a million a day. We did do 711k in March and now nearly 4 months on we haven't managed to beat that despite all the extra resources.

844k on 20/3 second highest was in May

Supply seems to have been the issue. Personally I think ~500k per day is good going

[WatchfulEye]

soofsayer said:

What I was asking is why has the 12 week gap between injections been junked? The 12 week gap was to get the maximum efficacy from the second jab afaik? It would follow that reducing the gap would reduce the efficacy, which when the efficacy against the Indian virus is quoted as less than with the kent variant why would hmg worsen the efficacy further by going faster on 2nd jabs?

The goal of the 12 week was not to get maximum efficacy. The 12 week gap was a non-evidence-based emergency measure due to a serious health situation and lack of vaccine supply. At the time the 12 week gap came in, the vaccines had only been tested at a 3-6 week dose interval. As a result, the most reliable effectiveness data (i.e. randomised controlled trials) is all based on a 3-6 week interval.

In the UK, a shortage of vaccine led to a dilemma. Continue to follow the tested dosing schedule, or make the assumption that the dosing schedule could be stretched, on the basis that a single dose would provide adequate protection; and a greater overall level of population protection would be achieved by giving 2 people 1st doses, rather than 1 person 2 doses.

Some observational data (less reliable than trial data) has suggested that the 12 week interval is at least as effective as the 3-6 week interval, and may be more effective; but this type of data is prone to various biases and confounding.

[NRS]

Northernboy said:

NRS said:

The risk of clots seems to be higher with contraceptive pills, but the impact seems to be far lower. If I understand it the issue with ViTT is it causes low palette counts while also clotting. The normal treatment for clots would be blood thinners, but that doesn't really work as the blood is already very thin if I understand it correctly. Hence the very high death rate for those that do get hit by it, compared to "normal" clots associated with the pill.

More or Less covered this issue a couple of weeks back (I seem to write that line a lot), and I think that the risk of death from clots was still higher from the pill than the vaccination.

Of course, that's not the only measure that matters, as it says nothing about the relative benefits of the two treatments. A pill signficantly reduces the risk of pregnancy, which has far higher risks for an average young woman than does a vaccine or contraceptives.

If we ruled it out here a few weeks ago then it'd probably worth letting the experts who have blocked or strongly discouraged the use of AZ know about it then?

Northernboy said:

isaldiri said:

There's somewhat of a misrepresentation by those who like to claim clots occur in contraceptive pills etc vs the AZN/JnJ ViTT issue. The latter is a bloody serious one with considerable medical implications. The former is.....well more likely than not just a 'standard' blood clot which doesn't typically kill around 17% of people and get those with it landed in intensive care.

That's not what Ive seen in the data. What numbers do you have for deaths per person on each treatment?

The numbers I had seen were more towards 40% fatalities (I haven't looked much into the details, but here is an example of a study, and that matches with what was reported in the original Norwegian studies reported in the media here). The numbers reported in the Norwegian work was around a 1:40 000 chance of dying. At the time the UK data was showing around a 1:1 000 000 but I think it's come down a lot unfortunately - potentially a combination of recognising the issue, and the move into jabbing more young people over time (Norway's jabs were people under 65 before it got banned). At the time of the studies I was complaining about the Norwegian decision to remove AZ based on the much larger dataset from the UK, but they appear to have been better at picking up the issue than the UK were.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejme2106315

Edited by NRS on Monday 14th June 12:25

[Northernboy]

NRS said:

The numbers I had seen were more towards 40% fatalities (I haven't looked much into the details, but here is an example of a study, and that matches with what was reported in the original Norwegian studies reported in the media here). The numbers reported in the Norwegian work was around a 1:40 000 chance of dying. At the time the UK data was showing around a 1:1 000 000 but I think it's come down a lot unfortunately - potentially a combination of recognising the issue, and the move into jabbing more young people over time (Norway's jabs were people under 65 before it got banned):

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejme2106315

Your first figure is in response to a question about deaths per treatment; if we were seeing 40% fatalities then I think we'd have heard about it, that'd be millions of people dying in the UK every week.

[Vanden Saab]

WatchfulEye said:

soofsayer said:

What I was asking is why has the 12 week gap between injections been junked? The 12 week gap was to get the maximum efficacy from the second jab afaik? It would follow that reducing the gap would reduce the efficacy, which when the efficacy against the Indian virus is quoted as less than with the kent variant why would hmg worsen the efficacy further by going faster on 2nd jabs?

The goal of the 12 week was not to get maximum efficacy. The 12 week gap was a non-evidence-based emergency measure due to a serious health situation and lack of vaccine supply. At the time the 12 week gap came in, the vaccines had only been tested at a 3-6 week dose interval. As a result, the most reliable effectiveness data (i.e. randomised controlled trials) is all based on a 3-6 week interval.

In the UK, a shortage of vaccine led to a dilemma. Continue to follow the tested dosing schedule, or make the assumption that the dosing schedule could be stretched, on the basis that a single dose would provide adequate protection; and a greater overall level of population protection would be achieved by giving 2 people 1st doses, rather than 1 person 2 doses.

Some observational data (less reliable than trial data) has suggested that the 12 week interval is at least as effective as the 3-6 week interval, and may be more effective; but this type of data is prone to various biases and confounding.

the 12 week gap was changed to an 8 week gap if possible on May 15th iirc

[anonymous-user]

Northernboy said:

That's not what Ive seen in the data. What numbers do you have for deaths per person on each treatment?

I'm not who you quoted, but a researcher from Edinburgh puts the blot clot risk from the pill at 6-12 per 10,000; with 1% of those going on to die. So that would give a mortality rate from blot clots using the contraceptive pill of very roughly 1 per 100000 if I understand it correctly. Although the pill is an ongoing treatment rather than a one- or two-shot treatment, which muddies the comparison a bit.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-38265865

[NRS]

Northernboy said:

NRS said:

The numbers I had seen were more towards 40% fatalities (I haven't looked much into the details, but here is an example of a study, and that matches with what was reported in the original Norwegian studies reported in the media here). The numbers reported in the Norwegian work was around a 1:40 000 chance of dying. At the time the UK data was showing around a 1:1 000 000 but I think it's come down a lot unfortunately - potentially a combination of recognising the issue, and the move into jabbing more young people over time (Norway's jabs were people under 65 before it got banned):

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejme2106315

Your first figure is in response to a question about deaths per treatment; if we were seeing 40% fatalities then I think we'd have heard about it, that'd be millions of people dying in the UK every week.

Sorry, as you say the 40% fatalities is clearly not for all those with AZ jabs, but rather diagnosed with ViTT. I'd also expect over time the fatality rate to drop given we're likely not picking up on less serious forms of ViTT, due to the less serious consequences.

The 1:40 000 would be for all those jabbed with AZ though, unless far larger datasets suggest the Norwegian batches had some sort of bias (possibly given to people more at risk, a bad batch of the vaccine etc).

Edited by NRS on Monday 14th June 12:33

[isaldiri]

Northernboy said:

isaldiri said:

There's somewhat of a misrepresentation by those who like to claim clots occur in contraceptive pills etc vs the AZN/JnJ ViTT issue. The latter is a bloody serious one with considerable medical implications. The former is.....well more likely than not just a 'standard' blood clot which doesn't typically kill around 17% of people and get those with it landed in intensive care.

That's not what Ive seen in the data. What numbers do you have for deaths per person on each treatment?

VTE (venous thromboembolic events like DVT) per clots typically linked to contraceptive pill use fatality rate estimated between 1-2% for women in the age group concerned.

ViTT case fatality rate at the moment per CDC and MHRA data is ~17-18%.

Obviously incidence of the former is happening is higher but there is a rather major difference between the severity of the different type of blood clots.

[Solocle]

NRS said:

Solocle said:

Got my first jab yesterday. I'm 22.

You should change the photo if you want to hide your name - I can read your name easily there.

Thanks for the heads up! I mean, is it too much to ask that when I tell iOS Markup to use 100% opacity, that I get 100% fking opacity?

Couldn't see the transparency when I posted it.

[illmonkey]

Not sure why you're worried when your name and photo is on your profile...

[speedy_thrills]

Vanden Saab said:

first second total
254,185 320,326 574511

percentage jabbed first 78.9 second 56.6

This is interesting from Dorset...



Over 68% of second jabs completed compared to the UK average of 56.6% probably due to the age of our population...Once again it looks like we are going to be denied our freedom because of the large towns and cities.

It seems like London is behind but that's likely because booking so far has been limited to people with NHS numbers. That means if, like me, you work and get healthcare abroad you won't yet be eligible to be vaccinated even if you are British. Quite right too, after all we don't pay an NI contribution so I should be low priority. You could argue that we should pay for the shot but it's such a low nominal value...the government would spend more on payment infrastructure than they'd recoup.

The more international workers a city has the further it's likely to be behind.

[EddieSteadyGo]

This is welcome news!

Seems like the NHS app has been updated to remove the need to cancel your second appointment before being able to check availability.



https://twitter.com/fordie/status/1405281727761711...

[768]

You still have to click "cancel and rebook" first weirdly and you can only check for earlier appointments at the same vaccination centre. But at least it's still being improved.

[EddieSteadyGo]

True. On the thread it seems like that is going to be updated soon too.

[EddieSteadyGo]

Paul Mainwood just reporting that it looks like we have received 2m mRNA vaccine doses this week. That shows we are still getting a very healthy vaccine rate of supply!

https://twitter.com/PaulMainwood/status/1405473453...

[Yertis]

illmonkey said:

Not sure why you're worried when your name and photo is on your profile...

This place would be a lot more civilised if everyone had to display that.

[amgmcqueen]

How are all you double jabbers enjoying your new found freedoms....?

[EddieSteadyGo]

EddieSteadyGo said:

Paul Mainwood just reporting that it looks like we have received 2m mRNA vaccine doses this week. That shows we are still getting a very healthy vaccine rate of supply!

https://twitter.com/PaulMainwood/status/1405473453...

I suspect the good news about the mRNA vaccine supply and the fact it seems from tomorrow all over 18's will be called forward to book their vaccine is related....

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-ove...

[RacerMike]

EddieSteadyGo said:

This is welcome news!

Seems like the NHS app has been updated to remove the need to cancel your second appointment before being able to check availability.



https://twitter.com/fordie/status/1405281727761711...

Thanks for that. Logged on and rebooked mine for Saturday

[EddieSteadyGo]

RacerMike said:

EddieSteadyGo said:

This is welcome news!

Seems like the NHS app has been updated to remove the need to cancel your second appointment before being able to check availability.



https://twitter.com/fordie/status/1405281727761711...

Thanks for that. Logged on and rebooked mine for Saturday

Excellent!