45th President of the United States, Donald Trump. (Vol 5)

[Blackpuddin]

Gameface said:

Byker28i said:

Pompeo after his meetings with Saudis:

Q: Did they say if Khashoggi is alive or dead?
Pompeo: "I don't want to talk about any of the facts. They didn't want to, either."

Well that was useful you going then...

https://www.thedailybeast.com/pompeo-saudis-didnt-...

WTF???

So you were sent to find out what happened but didn't bother to talk about it or any facts pertaining to it?

It's gone way beyond being funny now. How any members of the Republican elite can sleep at night is a total mystery.

[Gameface]

It's disgusting. I have absolutely no time for America anymore. Any respect I had has gone.

[Lazermilk]

Tallow said:

Me too. I was talking to a Republican friend at the weekend about it. His take was basically "Yeah, Trump is an idiot, but the economy has improved and I approve of the general policies he's put in place." In other words, the end justifies the means.

I think a lot of right leaning people view it that way. Trump hasn't done anything yet that will kill his approval rating to Republicans because, well, they're alright, Jack.

I don't agree with that general outlook on life personally, but it is not surprisng that a lot of people would view things that way in the most capitalist economy in the world.

I was just speaking with a colleague who mentioned he was discussing Trump with an american friend of his to get his views, he basically said exactly this also, he doesn't like him as a person and thinks hes an idiot, but the economy is doing well so he didn't mind having him as president.

I'm just amazed more people cant see past that and see what he is really like and how much harm he has done (or could do) to the US in general.

[captain_cynic]

skwdenyer said:

jsf said:

The west has been turning a blind eye to the atrocities enacted on their citizens for decades.

They hold public beheadings regularly. No one in power cares.

In fairness, if the death penalty is a judicial outcome provided-for by law, I have no problem with public beheadings as a way of achieving that end. It is no less humane than any other form of death penalty.

If the public beheadings are arbitrary and extra-judicial then that's a different matter, except insofar as their being public makes no difference.

There are many "civilised" nations who retain the death penalty.

Not civilised enough to realise the death penalty doesn't work. States with the death penalty suffer more crime than those without.

Zod said:

So you don't think the crowd and the theatre make it even less humane?

The Death Penalty isn't humane in any way.

The way the Saudi's do it is one of the least humane ways as it's designed to be a spectacle to dissuade criminals from doing the same thing (risk v reward, the risk is not greater than the reward). Seeing as they're still having to do it, it's clearly not working.

So-called "soft on crime" nations that have low prison populations and low crime tend to reduce the crime by reducing the reward from doing the crime which is a hell of a lot more effective than increasing punishment. When you get 20 for robbery and 25 for murder, it makes more sense to turn that robbery into a murder because it makes it harder to get caught.

[captain_cynic]

Blackpuddin said:

It's gone way beyond being funny now. How any members of the Republican elite can sleep at night is a total mystery.

The republican elite... I suspect they sleep peacefully and contentedly.

Problems sleeping in this environment are for those with morals.

Once Trump is gone, then they'll lose sleep as Trump is paving the way for his predecessors to go after him and his backers.

[Halb]

skwdenyer said:

In fairness, if the death penalty is a judicial outcome provided-for by law, I have no problem with public beheadings as a way of achieving that end. It is no less humane than any other form of death penalty.

If the public beheadings are arbitrary and extra-judicial then that's a different matter, except insofar as their being public makes no difference.

There are many "civilised" nations who retain the death penalty.

It's interesting. If one does have the death penalty, it probably shouldn't be done quietly and secretly, but it shouldn't be a spectacle either.

[Zod]

Hosenbugler said:

Just dropped in for my occasional chuckle , this thread truly is comedy Gold, as another observed, an amusement arcade.

A truly great illustration of what Reinhold Niebuhr wisely wished for.

Serenity? WTF are you talking about? You are the one whose poor son was going to have to emigrate to Canada if the Brexit vote hadn't gone through. You certainly weren't going to accept that one lightly!

[paulguitar]

Hosenbugler said:

Just dropped in for my occasional chuckle , this thread truly is comedy Gold, as another observed, an amusement arcade.

Poor effort at adopting a superior tone. Unconvincing, 3/10.

Random capitalization of word 'Gold'. Amusing and trump-inspired? 6/10

[Escapegoat]

Trump doing something right: challenging China on the crazy postage agreements: https://www.apnews.com/769cefd8364d46a0a13c818d67e...

This is the same daftness that allows Ebay sellers in China to send me something for less than I can post it from Cambridge to London.

Chances that EU/HMG will do the same...? Hmmm

[skwdenyer]

Escapegoat said:

Trump doing something right: challenging China on the crazy postage agreements: https://www.apnews.com/769cefd8364d46a0a13c818d67e...

This is the same daftness that allows Ebay sellers in China to send me something for less than I can post it from Cambridge to London.

Chances that EU/HMG will do the same...? Hmmm

This is one of the problems with Trump. There are some things he cares about that I think are long-overdue to be cared-about. And his willingness to get on with it and to ignore any naysayers is a major strength.

And then there's the rest of it...

[paulguitar]

skwdenyer said:

Escapegoat said:

Trump doing something right: challenging China on the crazy postage agreements: https://www.apnews.com/769cefd8364d46a0a13c818d67e...

This is the same daftness that allows Ebay sellers in China to send me something for less than I can post it from Cambridge to London.

Chances that EU/HMG will do the same...? Hmmm

This is one of the problems with Trump. There are some things he cares about that I think are long-overdue to be cared-about. And his willingness to get on with it and to ignore any naysayers is a major strength.

And then there's the rest of it...

It's a good point, not even trump can be 100% wrong about everything, all of the time.

If he does do something sensible occasionally though, it is drowned out by something else ridiculous on the same day, for example, calling a porn worker he fked 'horse face' on Twitter.

All of it is a distraction though. I read something recently that said we will come to look back on this period as having been the 'calm' time of this 'presidency'. Scary as that is, the sooner the endgame gets going the better.

[Byker28i]

Even obstruction of the death of Khashoggi?

https://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/4119...

As the Saudi's pay $100m into US accounts
https://thehill.com/policy/international/411802-10...

How obvious does it have to be?

[Byker28i]

US intelligence agencies have growing circumstantial evidence of the prince’s involvement — including the presence of members of his security detail and intercepts of Saudi officials discussing a possible plan to detain Mr. Khashoggi, according to American officials.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/17/world/middleeas...

[Byker28i]

trump has claimed that Cohen lied when talking to investigators and saying trump directed Cohen to break the law

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/1...

Cohen's attorney, Lanny Davis, told USA TODAY his client had "two words" for the Trump's claims that Cohen lied to prosecutors: "audio and tape." He said the president should be worried.

[Byker28i]

Georgia making it hard to vote in areas, where Kemp is the republican candidate, who just happens to be in charge of the voting, who's taken thousands of people, mostly black, off the voter rolls.

Delay the opening
https://twitter.com/ben_brasch/status/105255963710...


Take people off buses
https://politics.myajc.com/news/state--regional-go...

[Byker28i]

Byker28i said:

Georgia making it hard to vote in areas, where Kemp is the republican candidate, who just happens to be in charge of the voting, who's taken thousands of people, mostly black, off the voter rolls.

Delay the opening
https://twitter.com/ben_brasch/status/105255963710...


Take people off buses
https://politics.myajc.com/news/state--regional-go...

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/411777-dozens-of-black-senior-citizens-ordered-off-bus-taking-them-to-vote

[Hosenbugler]

Zod said:

Hosenbugler said:

Just dropped in for my occasional chuckle , this thread truly is comedy Gold, as another observed, an amusement arcade.

A truly great illustration of what Reinhold Niebuhr wisely wished for.

Serenity? WTF are you talking about? You are the one whose poor son was going to have to emigrate to Canada if the Brexit vote hadn't gone through. You certainly weren't going to accept that one lightly!

Yes, Serenity prayer, truly apt in the context of this thread, group hysterics from those who clearly in the main fall totally short of what Niebuhr outlines.
As for my youngest son, yes, thats right, he feels the EU is all about the big battalions and cares little for the small man (I agree) so yes,he and my daugher in law had thoughts to emigration if the vote went to stay in the EU. They had an open book from previous enquiries, Canada, Aus, NZ, but they had not looked at the US, until last year. They made inquiries, and were astonished at the potential opportunities available to them. So thats whats happened , they emigrated to the US earlier this year, they have truly fallen on their feet, if they are not sterling millionaires within the next 3 years , I shall be astonished. Mixed feelings for myself of course , but they really do have huge opportunity, a chance in a lifetime, they will do well.

[_dobbo_]

Isn't accepting the things you cannot change in this context the same as giving up on the very idea of democracy?

[Zod]

_dobbo_ said:

Isn't accepting the things you cannot change in this context the same as giving up on the very idea of democracy?

He just means everyone else should accept the things he approves. He would not have accepted a remain vote, as he made very clear.

[Hosenbugler]

Zod said:

_dobbo_ said:

Isn't accepting the things you cannot change in this context the same as giving up on the very idea of democracy?

He just means everyone else should accept the things he approves. He would not have accepted a remain vote, as he made very clear.

That is incorrect, In no way would I have liked it, but I would have adopted a "get on with it" approach had the vote gone for stay. . I worked for vote leave, the only remotely political thing I have ever done except vote but I was motivated by reasons other than family, per se. Anyhow, I still view that Niebuhr is bang on the nail , anyone constanly shrieking in this thread who does not have the vote in the US is deranged and totally wasting their (obviously plentifull) time. Yes, thats it, as somebody said, Trump derangement syndrome. Niebuhr must have come across similar in his day. Anyhow, off to do something more important than poking fun at the hysterical.