CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 5)

[anonymous-user]

Alucidnation said:

Ah fair enough.

Maybe the media haven't picked up on it yet.

there have been a few stories but like i said, the public can experience emotive feelings about immigrants and benefits fraudsters, but contracts just are tangible enough to illicit emotive feelings.

[S1KRR]

johnboy1975 said:

And yet.....the Telegraph leads with "immunity may only lasts a few months"

https://www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk/daily-telegraph-...



Why have we seen FIVE reinfections (all 5 a different strain) worldwide then, in 10 months??????

FFS

Journalists simply cannot add up. Worse, when they put 2+2 into their calculator, and the answer comes back 6.372 they go off and write a scaremongering headline. They even say in the first paragraph that the vaccine might need to be given TWICE a year....... ()

Even with my limited medical experience (ie going to the GP every now and then ) I know that antibodies aren't sloshing around your system waiting for another dose of something.

What happens is that your body (I think T Cells) remember what to do if faced with the same disease. And then creates antibodies specifically to attack the new occurrence of the virus.

Hence why you get the flu more than once in your lifetime. But generally your body fights it off after a few days of it recreating the antibodies to do so

[rich888]

2gins said:

rich888 said:

pocty said:

Not sure if this has been posted yet.

Herd Stupidity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NutSbOJd5g&fe...

Pocty

Hey Pocty thanks for posting the Youtube link on here, that was a bl**dy awesome speech. Now let's hope that Boris takes heed of what was said, comes to his senses, and kicks the idiots out.

Pity nobody was there to hear it.

Seems Tory MP Desmond Swayne has been taking a stand against this Covid-19 stupidity, in this video he calls for Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance to be sacked:

[johnboy1975]

pocty said:

johnboy1975 said:

rich888 said:

pocty said:

Not sure if this has been posted yet.

Herd Stupidity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NutSbOJd5g&fe...

Pocty

Hey Pocty thanks for posting the Youtube link on here, that was a bl**dy awesome speech. Now let's hope that Boris takes heed of what was said, comes to his senses, and kicks the idiots out.

Desmond Swayne for PM!!

Pocty

I jest.....but if Boris stands down, then who? He could be the Tory Jeremy Corbyn. As in popular with the grass roots and a rank outsider, rather than a Marxist IRA sympathiser who hates Jews*

• disclaimer. Please add an allegedly

You catch his other viral speech? (Well its the only other one I've seen - just had a look, and there's a couple more on youtube)

https://youtu.be/lOdstAhVd_4

[2gins]

Alucidnation said:

Nobody listens to him in his constituency either.

New forest isn't he, the safest of safe tory seats. I thoroughly agree with everything he said and he's been outspoken about covid before now, but I do recall he's widely regarded as being a bit special.

[johnboy1975]

S1KRR said:

johnboy1975 said:

And yet.....the Telegraph leads with "immunity may only lasts a few months"

https://www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk/daily-telegraph-...



Why have we seen FIVE reinfections (all 5 a different strain) worldwide then, in 10 months??????

FFS

Journalists simply cannot add up. Worse, when they put 2+2 into their calculator, and the answer comes back 6.372 they go off and write a scaremongering headline. They even say in the first paragraph that the vaccine might need to be given TWICE a year....... ()

Even with my limited medical experience (ie going to the GP every now and then ) I know that antibodies aren't sloshing around your system waiting for another dose of something.

What happens is that your body (I think T Cells) remember what to do if faced with the same disease. And then creates antibodies specifically to attack the new occurrence of the virus.

Hence why you get the flu more than once in your lifetime. But generally your body fights it off after a few days of it recreating the antibodies to do so

Yeah, I think Isaldiri said you measure coronavirus t cell response in decades in an earlier reply to me. And I quote him (very) slightly out of context, but close enough for the point to be valid i hope.

[GT03ROB]

Alucidnation said:

2gins said:

rich888 said:

pocty said:

Not sure if this has been posted yet.

Herd Stupidity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NutSbOJd5g&fe...

Pocty

Hey Pocty thanks for posting the Youtube link on here, that was a bl**dy awesome speech. Now let's hope that Boris takes heed of what was said, comes to his senses, and kicks the idiots out.

Pity nobody was there to hear it.

Nobody listens to him in his constituency either.

You speak for yourself. He's my MP & he has a lot of support for what he's saying in his constituency.

[Misanthrope]

MDMetal said:

That's rubbish, explain what a Labour government would have done differently please.

Given the money to their mates instead of to the Tories' mates.

[MDMetal]

Misanthrope said:

MDMetal said:

That's rubbish, explain what a Labour government would have done differently please.

Given the money to their mates instead of to the Tories' mates.

Someone gets it...

[anonymous-user]

GT03ROB said:

You speak for yourself. He's my MP & he has a lot of support for what he's saying in his constituency.

you are lucky, he really is on the ball, a proper breath of fresh air in this difficult times, and this is the whole point, it feels that honest, proper debates are totally stifled whilst we are left in a dictator situation.

[b0rk]

MDMetal said:

I think what they'd done is ridiculous but as with Brexit this guy is just anti Tory. In the middle of a pandemic when everyone is screaming they don't have ppe do you think they'll just pop in an order with one company to tide them over? Or do you think they get multiple companies to overstock them so as long as one order comes through it's safe? It doesn't seem unreasonable have have 6 companies buying a whole batch of plastic overalls it's not like they go off. To reiterate I think this is all Lunacy but this guy is chasing the small potatoes again

Look there are lots of companies that supply coveralls and have trading histories of doing so. It just seems incredibly bizarre that HMG decided to let contracts to companies that have never previously supplied these products and have no capability to directly manufacture these products, so must be acting as importers / wholesalers.
Moreover then placed contracts that represent huge multiples of the suppliers normal turnover. £30m contracts being placed with a business/supplier that has a trading turnover of under 100k seems very off.

In my line of work our customers ask a lot of due diligence questions around turnover, profitability and what percent of secured turnover the potential order is. All usual and normal questions on orders for a few £m+.

[rich888]

S1KRR said:

johnboy1975 said:

And yet.....the Telegraph leads with "immunity may only lasts a few months"

https://www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk/daily-telegraph-...



Why have we seen FIVE reinfections (all 5 a different strain) worldwide then, in 10 months??????

FFS

Journalists simply cannot add up. Worse, when they put 2+2 into their calculator, and the answer comes back 6.372 they go off and write a scaremongering headline. They even say in the first paragraph that the vaccine might need to be given TWICE a year....... ()

Even with my limited medical experience (ie going to the GP every now and then ) I know that antibodies aren't sloshing around your system waiting for another dose of something.

What happens is that your body (I think T Cells) remember what to do if faced with the same disease. And then creates antibodies specifically to attack the new occurrence of the virus.

Hence why you get the flu more than once in your lifetime. But generally your body fights it off after a few days of it recreating the antibodies to do so

I seem to recollect that Dr Mike Yeadon's podcast mentioned that the body has various methods of killing off invading bacteria and viruses, of which one of the most powerful is the use of T cells, whereas antibodies are used as a last ditch defence, so sometimes antibodies aren't created because the invader has been destroyed. He went on to say that the invader is disassembled by the immune system and DNA fragments are marked up for future use. Very clever stuff, but I guess we have evolved and survived many epidemics over millions of years - and the best we can do is stick a piece of cloth over our mouth and face and hope for the best.

I'm no medic and my memory is pretty poor, so apologies if my rendition is inaccurate, best thing to do is take time out to listen to the podcast!

Edited by rich888 on Tuesday 27th October 10:57

[anonymous-user]

b0rk said:

good stuff

the thing is as well, it all pretty much came from the same place China

. You really don't need new companies for that, yes Pestfix argue that is why they got the contract, there chinese relationship, but i'm sure there are loads of PPE companies better suited.

And no tender, even a handful to tender could have saved millions if not 100s millions.

It seems all wrong when the Gov is spending a concerted effort arguing over 20 million of free meals. And this is the reality, 100 million plus could have been put to some real good, it was not LEGALLY there choice to act in the manner they did.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 26th October 23:18

[Salmonofdoubt]

rich888 said:

2gins said:

rich888 said:

pocty said:

Not sure if this has been posted yet.

Herd Stupidity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NutSbOJd5g&fe...

Pocty

Hey Pocty thanks for posting the Youtube link on here, that was a bl**dy awesome speech. Now let's hope that Boris takes heed of what was said, comes to his senses, and kicks the idiots out.

Pity nobody was there to hear it.

Seems Tory MP Desmond Swayne has been taking a stand against this Covid-19 stupidity, in this video he calls for Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance to be sacked:

Never voted conservative in my life. But that man has spoken enough sense in those two videos that I'd give them my vote if they'd oust the blithering idiots they have at the cabinet trough and allow sensible men and women to lead.

Though I'd offer the same to any other party willing to speak straight and use common sense.

[anonymous-user]

Salmonofdoubt said:

Though I'd offer the same to any other party willing to speak straight and use common sense.

Unicorn

[isaldiri]

johnboy1975 said:

Yeah, I think Isaldiri said you measure coronavirus t cell response in decades in an earlier reply to me. And I quote him (very) slightly out of context, but close enough for the point to be valid i hope.

I think it depends. Sars1 had very long lasting t cells that were shown to have sars-cov2 neutralising capabilities 17 years after original infection. However one tended to get pretty viciously ill with sars1 as well so it's possible, maybe probable that less severe infection from sars-cov2 (as would be typical for the vast majority of people) would not have the same effect.

It's unclear how much or how long t cells remain after sars-cov2 infection at the moment I think it's fair to say but likely to have some protective immunity remaining for a while, perhaps 2-3 year as would be typical hcov infection cycle.

On the telegraph headline article though, it's quite a curious article vs other surveys. A recent PHE staff antibody survey showed quite different results. Perhaps it's a function of the imperial survey using a rapid diagnostic test rather than full lab assay as that mentioned PHE survey showed similar results to other antibody surveys (like in Iceland) - stable antibody levels for 2-3 months albeit a decline over initial levels.

[rich888]

OK then, last post for tonight to lighten the mood here's one more video of Boris Johnson handling the complaints of university students:

[CrgT16]

Tory or not that MP is saying it how it is! Glad to hear it but sad that it probably won’t change anything. It is depressing seeing this country taking steps to an economic abyss... without it being necessary. Brexit is bad enough but no, let’s kill it all!!

[Red Devil]

Sticks. said:

Civil servants are employed to decide the level at which correspondence is answered, that's their job.

Anyone who has watched Yes Minister knows this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-HUw3_TCXg

fastraxx said:

pocty said:

It still amazes me how many people still don't know how harmful the flu jab is. If you are in any doubt I suggest you do your own research and speak to staff about the fatalities it causes every year in care homes.

Pocty

So why does it exist then?

To make money for big pharma.

I can see the Pandemrix Swine Flu s**t being repeated with SARS-CoV-2. It's not encouraging when those whom you are supposed to be able to trust omit critical relevant information and/or tell outright porkies.

964Cup said:

By the same token Ferguson is a physicist by training and an epidemiologist by profession and professorship. Neither has stopped him being (at best) a terrible software engineer or (at worst) a publicity-seeking doomsayer.

He has an enviable track record of predicting Armageddon and getting it wrong. The question is why did the politicians (and others) place so much faith in him?

[johnboy1975]

CrgT16 said:

Tory or not that MP is saying it how it is! Glad to hear it but sad that it probably won’t change anything. It is depressing seeing this country taking steps to an economic abyss... without it being necessary. Brexit is bad enough but no, let’s kill it all!!

You have to wonder if the aim is to blur the lines between the two.......(first said on here about 6 months ago iirc)