Grads more likely to become cleaners

[DonkeyApple]

alfaman said:

Digga said:

The blokes at least have their jobs to prevent them from full-time numb-out, but the women dont have much to do if they aren't working .... with the abundance of cheap Filipina maids and serviced condo facilities, with nothing to hang their lives on other than the activities of their offspring, a swim in the pool, walking the dog [ oops, no the maids do that... ] and planning/discussing the next/last shopping trip along Orchard Road or visit to the Tanglin or British club .

I have edited for Singapore

Edited by alfaman on Wednesday 31st August 09:24

There's always freelancing at Orchard Towers if they have an ugly gardener.

[Digga]

DonkeyApple said:

alfaman said:

Digga said:

The blokes at least have their jobs to prevent them from full-time numb-out, but the women dont have much to do if they aren't working .... with the abundance of cheap Filipina maids and serviced condo facilities, with nothing to hang their lives on other than the activities of their offspring, a swim in the pool, walking the dog [ oops, no the maids do that... ] and planning/discussing the next/last shopping trip along Orchard Road or visit to the Tanglin or British club .

I have edited for Singapore

Edited by alfaman on Wednesday 31st August 09:24

There's always freelancing at Orchard Towers if they have an ugly gardener.

Plus ca change...

[fido]

DonkeyApple said:

As for 2008 in our industry we all know that large numbers of heads were offered the door or the airport.

You seem to generalise this quite alot. But i don't think it's fair to lump all the expats into the 'not good enough for London' category. I personally know of a few rising stars who moved abroad because they had a chance to run a team in Singapore/Switzerland and not certainly not because they didn't have headcount in London. TBH i have no idea what the proportion falls in each camp, but if you are offered a move on the same salary + accomodation for 6months/1year, then it can be quite tempting if you want to get away from London. Personally, i am happy with life here so i didn't go [in the past].

[Digga]

fido said:

DonkeyApple said:

As for 2008 in our industry we all know that large numbers of heads were offered the door or the airport.

You seem to generalise this quite alot. But i don't think it's fair to lump all the expats into the 'not good enough for London' category. I personally know of a few rising stars who moved abroad because they had a chance to run a team in Singapore/Switzerland and not certainly not because they didn't have headcount in London. TBH i have no idea what the proportion falls in each camp, but if you are offered a move on the same salary + accomodation for 6months/1year, then it can be quite tempting if you want to get away from London. Personally, i am happy with life here so i didn't go [in the past].

Don't think it's even as straight forward as that. A lot of internation firms will want top management to have a more than passing knowledge of the workings of the whole empire. They also, very often, offer the carrot of longer term career advancement, for the short-term hassle of the exec' having to up sticks and do a few years ex-pat.

I know examples of British, japanese and korean firms who operate on this basis.

[Bing o]

Digga said:

fido said:

DonkeyApple said:

As for 2008 in our industry we all know that large numbers of heads were offered the door or the airport.

You seem to generalise this quite alot. But i don't think it's fair to lump all the expats into the 'not good enough for London' category. I personally know of a few rising stars who moved abroad because they had a chance to run a team in Singapore/Switzerland and not certainly not because they didn't have headcount in London. TBH i have no idea what the proportion falls in each camp, but if you are offered a move on the same salary + accomodation for 6months/1year, then it can be quite tempting if you want to get away from London. Personally, i am happy with life here so i didn't go [in the past].

Don't think it's even as straight forward as that. A lot of internation firms will want top management to have a more than passing knowledge of the workings of the whole empire. They also, very often, offer the carrot of longer term career advancement, for the short-term hassle of the exec' having to up sticks and do a few years ex-pat.

I know examples of British, japanese and korean firms who operate on this basis.

I also doubt that a firm with a perfect excuse to cull poor people would go through the hassle and expense of paying their relo package when they could get away with laying them off. There is a certain aspect of FILTH (Failed in London tried Hong Kong) still, but I think it's dying out as Asia gets more focus, the deadwood is culled, and most firms realsie that you need decent management out here to herd the cats.

[DonkeyApple]

fido said:

DonkeyApple said:

As for 2008 in our industry we all know that large numbers of heads were offered the door or the airport.

You seem to generalise this quite alot. But i don't think it's fair to lump all the expats into the 'not good enough for London' category. I personally know of a few rising stars who moved abroad because they had a chance to run a team in Singapore/Switzerland and not certainly not because they didn't have headcount in London. TBH i have no idea what the proportion falls in each camp, but if you are offered a move on the same salary + accomodation for 6months/1year, then it can be quite tempting if you want to get away from London. Personally, i am happy with life here so i didn't go [in the past].

Definitely generalising. But there was a big spike in expats, particularly to Dubai who were offered the option of redundancy in London or a move abroad on a not exactly typical expat package.

I'd recommend expatting to anyone, it's a great experience and opportunity. I'd recommend the FE over other classic destinations as you are more free in those places. Many places are basically living in a compound and/or extremely dull. The only place I regret not going to is NY. I would have liked a couple of years there.

[alfaman]

DonkeyApple said:

There's always freelancing at Orchard Towers if they have an ugly gardener.

doubt many middle aged ex pat wives could do a "stand in" at the Towers

..it must actually be a bit tough for single 40++ European women out here ... as most Western guys have a range of opportunities on offer ... which are generally younger, slimmer, fitter and less demanding [ e.g: less bolshy].

at a comedy show event at the Beer Festival ...the comedian commented about "funny how all the old[er] expat men have young[er] local girlfriends [..pointing at me ]..some 50 ish American woman got a little offended, and said it was unfair ...and then got roasted by the comedian ...

[she WAS strikingly "plain" in comparison to 99.99% of the local women at the venue ]

[DonkeyApple]

alfaman said:

DonkeyApple said:

There's always freelancing at Orchard Towers if they have an ugly gardener.

doubt many middle aged ex pat wives could do a "stand in" at the Towers

..it must actually be a bit tough for single 40++ European women out here ...

If Soovy was in town there would at least be a short term market for ropey 40 year olds.

It's generally a bit crap for the wife. Not many women (contrary to their own thinking) are programmed to genuinely gain satisfaction from endless coffee mornings, kiddie trips, , shopping excursions, lunches, organising charity functions etc with the same old group of bhing harpies who because they have no careers or willies to compare and contrast over can only compete on how how large their joint account limit is.

[turbobloke]

alfaman said:

DonkeyApple said:

There's always freelancing at Orchard Towers if they have an ugly gardener.

doubt many middle aged ex pat wives could do a "stand in" at the Towers

..it must actually be a bit tough for single 40++ European women out here ... as most Western guys have a range of opportunities on offer ... which are generally younger, slimmer, fitter and less demanding [ e.g: less bolshy].

at a comedy show event at the Beer Festival ...the comedian commented about "funny how all the old[er] expat men have young[er] local girlfriends [..pointing at me ]..some 50 ish American woman got a little offended, and said it was unfair ...and then got roasted by the comedian ...

[she WAS strikingly "plain" in comparison to 99.99% of the local women at the venue ]

'does my ass look big when I open my mouth and put my foot in it'

[mph1977]

DonkeyApple said:

Isn't this why you have Charters?

It must be the same with surveyors and accountants. Someone who looks up the price of flats on NetHousePrices can call themselves a surveyor and someone who instructs Excel to add column A to column B can call themselves and accountant but none of these people can call themselves a Chartered Surveyor or Accountant without the correct qualifications etc.

It must be similar in engineering? There must be a mechanism to clearly distinguish between an engineer and a bloke in a polo shirt with the letters 'BT' on the back?

Enclosure of title is an interesting one

the UK has fairly lax enclosure of title rules - hence the scenario we have a semi skilled fitters having a job title of 'engineer' -

equally we have the same scenario in healthcare

there are 4 professions who use the title 'Nurse'

as Well as Registered Nurses (of People) registered with the NMC

we have GDC registered 'Dental Nurses' - which is an NVQ 3 iirc

we have 'Nursery Nurses' who hold the NNEB qualification or a similar level three

we have Veterinary Nurses who hold an NVQ or degree in Vet nursing and are registered with the RCVS

not mention the none professionals who use titles which include nurse - in some cases being egged on by a well Known Union - sorry 'auxiliary Nurse' as a title died with Agenda for Change - they are all Healthcare Assistants or Healthcare Support workers ... not that you think it the way some talk very quiet on the 'auxiliary' bit and quite strident in the 'Nurse' bit - the irony being that the Level 3 qualification holding personnel are proud of the HCA title title because ...

'Consultant' isanotherone bandyed about by people ... anyone with a book of samples ( carpet, wallpaper, paint swatches' is suddenly a 'design consultant' vs the Consultant Medicla practitioner with 10 or more years pf post -reg education and training or the 'Consulting Engineer' with experience well above and beyond his/ her CEng ...