Bali and 5 kilos of coke...

[TTwiggy]

The thing I struggle to get my head around is the basic principle of making something illegal that is only (potentially) harmful to the user, and has 'sister' products that are entirely legal.

Imagine trying to explain our laws to a visitor from another planet:

Murder - this is illegal. Makes sense
Rape - this is illegal. Makes sense
Theft - this is illegal. Makes sense
etc
etc
etc
Drugs - ok, this is a tricky one. You see, some are legal, others are not. This is based on nothing more than a whim. Possession of them is also illegal, even though it's hurting nobody. Lots of people want the product, but supplying it puts you in prison. Sorry, that makes no sense at all.

[exgtt]

youngsyr said:

As a non-smoker, I can't say I've ever walked past a newsagents and thought, "ooohh I think I'll give cigarettes a go", even though I know plenty of people who smoke.

Just because something is readily available, it doesn't mean that everyone will try it, just as making something illegal won't stop those who want to try it from doing so.

Fair doos, i got off it by loosing a few phone numbers and dropping a few friends. It's why i feel sorry for alcoholics. Having booze available everywhere and even having companies targeting them. My view i guess is the blinkered even selfish view of a recovered user.

[Halb]

TTwiggy said:

The thing I struggle to get my head around is the basic principle of making something illegal that is only (potentially) harmful to the user, and has 'sister' products that are entirely legal.

Imagine trying to explain our laws to a visitor from another planet:

Murder - this is illegal. Makes sense
Rape - this is illegal. Makes sense
Theft - this is illegal. Makes sense
etc
etc
etc
Drugs - ok, this is a tricky one. You see, some are legal, others are not. This is based on nothing more than a whim. Possession of them is also illegal, even though it's hurting nobody. Lots of people want the product, but supplying it puts you in prison. Sorry, that makes no sense at all.

I think it is to do with judging and control. Some of it stems from religious kernel, some just from authoritarian political type who wish to control others.
You could also add;
Homosexuality - this was illegal...erm why? (and other sex related things between consenting adults)
Guns - some are illegal some are not.

[Oakey]

exgtt said:

Of course i seeked it out and got easy access. I didn't walk past a shop window and think ooohh i think i'll give coke a go. The consequences of the latter on the general public i find a bit disturbing.

I didn't comment before but I will now. Quitting cocaine is easy, you just have to want to quit. If you can't turn down a line when offered then either you don't really want to quit or you're a weak minded fool. When you run out you might crave another line but you don't have to ring up your dealer and buy more. It's not like you'll suffer the DT's if you don't. No cocaine user I have ever met is going out stealing to fund their habit. If they run out of disposable income to spend then that's that, they wait till they can afford it again. They're certainly not burgling your house nor are they curled up in a foetal position crying they need more.

[rohrl]

Oakey said:

I didn't comment before but I will now. Quitting cocaine is easy, you just have to want to quit. If you can't turn down a line when offered then either you don't really want to quit or you're a weak minded fool. When you run out you might crave another line but you don't have to ring up your dealer and buy more. It's not like you'll suffer the DT's if you don't. No cocaine user I have ever met is going out stealing to fund their habit. If they run out of disposable income to spend then that's that, they wait till they can afford it again. They're certainly not burgling your house nor are they curled up in a foetal position crying they need more.

I'm generally pretty pro-legalisation myself but I'm not sure this is fully accurate. Certainly not for crack cocaine anyway, a great many users of which have a dual dependency on heroin.

[TTwiggy]

rohrl said:

I'm generally pretty pro-legalisation myself but I'm not sure this is fully accurate. Certainly not for crack cocaine anyway, a great many users of which have a dual dependency on heroin.

Crack is a very different drug. It must also be remembered that dealers can control a user in the current climate. A functioning heroin addict might suddenly find that their dealer has switched to crack. Given the choice of cold turkey, or alleviating the situation with crack, most addicts will take the latter route. They then become crack addicts.

IMHO, if you could get top quality drugs, legally, from reputable sources for a reasonable price, drugs like crack would die out.

[Oakey]

rohrl said:

I'm generally pretty pro-legalisation myself but I'm not sure this is fully accurate. Certainly not for crack cocaine anyway, a great many users of which have a dual dependency on heroin.

Crack is a different kettle of fish to cocaine. I didn't just make that up, at the height of our habit my ex-business partner and myself were doing an ounce of coke a week, sometimes more.

Edited by Oakey on Friday 1st June 16:10

[Halb]

I know someone who did cocaine and simply stopped it dead. I also know another person who let his habit get out of hand, though he was into other things as well.

[just me]

Cocaine is EXTREMELY addictive. That is another reason to keep it legal and above-board, where users can be managed and helped. Driving it underground attaches a stigma and social consequences to it that hurt addicts even more. If people knew they could get help for their addiction, they would seek the help out more. If addicts were observed abusing drugs, they could be helped at an earlier stage, and they could get more of the help.

Once legalized, demand can be controlled/modulated by price to a large extent by setting a high price. Tax it more and more, usage will fall off more and more.

[rohrl]

It's not that controversial I think to suggest that some people can better cope with taking drugs while others get addicted easily.

A pal of mine used to mess about with crack and heroin while working towards a First in Engineering and getting a job as a senior design engineer for a mobile phone manufacturer. He could take it or leave it and never got into trouble. Others I'm sure will have very different tales to tell.