Cyclist killed by Olympic bus

[oyster]

croyde said:

I cycle in London and it does amaze me the amount of cyclists that undertake lorries, buses etc when there is a potential left turn coming up.

Very sad news.

I see it every single journey.
But having said that, I regularly see large lorries and coaches turning left without indicating - they are supposed to be professionals so with all the publicity around cyclist deaths, why are they still doing it?

[will_]

oyster said:

croyde said:

I cycle in London and it does amaze me the amount of cyclists that undertake lorries, buses etc when there is a potential left turn coming up.

Very sad news.

I see it every single journey.
But having said that, I regularly see large lorries and coaches turning left without indicating - they are supposed to be professionals so with all the publicity around cyclist deaths, why are they still doing it?

• Anecdotal Evidence Alert*

The last few times that I have had incidents with left turning trucks was when they had overtaken me and then cut accross my front wheel. They simply didn't care, it was a "must overtake" attitude. The particularly narrow lanes that remain after the Olympic Lanes have been carved out meant I have been buzzed by skip lorries and tipper trucks in the last 10 days.

I even saw a tipper truck turning accross a junction whilst the driver had a newspaper accross the steering wheel.

Cyclists are not all angels, and they have the most to lose. But there are some horrendously reckless and dangerous truck drivers around who really do not seem to care.

This is not typical, but seriously - who employed this guy, who's been convicted of driving whilst disqualified TWENTY times before killing a cyclist whilst "hungover" and using a mobile phone? And shouldn't they take some responsibility too?
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/family-of-dead-cycl...

[Mojocvh]

Until we have some enlightened road planning these terrible incidents will continue.

RIP.

[10 Pence Short]

There are bad on both sides. Unfortunately when a bad egg from each meets up it can end in injury or death. Seeming the cyclist is a touch smaller than the lorry, it's that side who always comes off worse.

[wl606]

oyster said:

I see it every single journey.
But having said that, I regularly see large lorries and coaches turning left without indicating - they are supposed to be professionals so with all the publicity around cyclist deaths, why are they still doing it?

I was at a set of lights last night on my bike. Car at the front of queue indicated turning left, so I stopped next to the car behind, a black cab, who wasn't indicating.
Lights go green, car ahead turns left, as does the black cab (without indicating) cutting straight across me, so I have to brake to avoid crashing into him.
Stayed calm, and just let it go.

[croyde]

Whether a truck/bus in indicating or not, if there is a left turn ahead I stay clear or prepare to throw myself on to the pavement if there is no barrier. If there is a barrier then the truck/bus can go ahead of me.

[oyster]

Mojocvh said:

Until we have some enlightened road planning these terrible incidents will continue.

RIP.

I disagree. The roads are fine - it's the people on them that are the problem. Wiggins was spot on when all we need is a bit of give and take.

As a cyclist I don't want to have my journey slowed down by excessive segregated cycle lanes just because a small percentage of motorised vehicle users can't follow something as simple as the highway code.

[oyster]

wl606 said:

oyster said:

I see it every single journey.
But having said that, I regularly see large lorries and coaches turning left without indicating - they are supposed to be professionals so with all the publicity around cyclist deaths, why are they still doing it?

I was at a set of lights last night on my bike. Car at the front of queue indicated turning left, so I stopped next to the car behind, a black cab, who wasn't indicating.
Lights go green, car ahead turns left, as does the black cab (without indicating) cutting straight across me, so I have to brake to avoid crashing into him.
Stayed calm, and just let it go.

Ridiculous that someone who is being paid to drive is making mistakes that a non-paid driver didn't make.
You did well to remain so calm - I have a feeling I'd have landed a kick at the side of the cab.

[Digger]

croyde said:

Whether a truck/bus in indicating or not, if there is a left turn ahead I stay clear or prepare to throw myself on to the pavement if there is no barrier. If there is a barrier then the truck/bus can go ahead of me.

Agreed. Is that not in The Highway Code?

[will_]

oyster said:

Mojocvh said:

Until we have some enlightened road planning these terrible incidents will continue.

RIP.

I disagree. The roads are fine - it's the people on them that are the problem. Wiggins was spot on when all we need is a bit of give and take.

As a cyclist I don't want to have my journey slowed down by excessive segregated cycle lanes just because a small percentage of motorised vehicle users can't follow something as simple as the highway code.

But, in reality, you cannot account for the stupidity of all people.

Road engineering has a significant role to play in maintaing safety. Current cycling facilities, such as they are, are not sufficient and, in my view, actively encourage riders to place themselves in vulnerable positions whilst also seeming to mitigate the need for drivers to pay attention and give cyclists sufficient room.

[Zaxxon]

oyster said:

I disagree. The roads are fine - it's the people on them that are the problem. Wiggins was spot on when all we need is a bit of give and take.

As a cyclist I don't want to have my journey slowed down by excessive segregated cycle lanes just because a small percentage of motorised vehicle users can't follow something as simple as the highway code.

And the cyclists who have not done training, and or just ignore the highway code? When I went to school there was a cycling proficiency program, it was great. But I have not seen any advertised locally nowadays.

Bradley Wiggins was also criticising a percentage of cyclists who give us a bad name.

[Zaxxon]

oyster said:

wl606 said:

oyster said:

I see it every single journey.
But having said that, I regularly see large lorries and coaches turning left without indicating - they are supposed to be professionals so with all the publicity around cyclist deaths, why are they still doing it?

I was at a set of lights last night on my bike. Car at the front of queue indicated turning left, so I stopped next to the car behind, a black cab, who wasn't indicating.
Lights go green, car ahead turns left, as does the black cab (without indicating) cutting straight across me, so I have to brake to avoid crashing into him.
Stayed calm, and just let it go.

Ridiculous that someone who is being paid to drive is making mistakes that a non-paid driver didn't make.
You did well to remain so calm - I have a feeling I'd have landed a kick at the side of the cab.

How often do you see cyclists signalling their intention??

And if they did.....just how many drivers would have a clue what the stop hand movement meant? They would probably think that the cyclist was calling them a wker and then run them off the road

[will_]

Zaxxon said:

How often do you see cyclists signalling their intention??

And if they did.....just how many driver would have a clue what the stop hand movement meant? They would probably think that the cyclist was calling them a wker and then run them off the road

How often does that really matter though? How often does a cyclist crush another road user by turning accross them?

[Zaxxon]

will_ said:

How often does that really matter though? How often does a cyclist crush another road user by turning accross them?

It matters quite a lot if the cyclist want to state their intention so that the following car driver does not crush them.

[oyster]

will_ said:

Zaxxon said:

How often do you see cyclists signalling their intention??

And if they did.....just how many driver would have a clue what the stop hand movement meant? They would probably think that the cyclist was calling them a wker and then run them off the road

How often does that really matter though? How often does a cyclist crush another road user by turning accross them?

Exactly.

And also cyclists aren't being paid.

Just as I expect airline pilots to fly to a higher standard than the weekend flyer in his Cessna, then so should cab drivers drive better than Doris in her Micra going to the shops.

[eccles]

oyster said:

will_ said:

Zaxxon said:

How often do you see cyclists signalling their intention??

And if they did.....just how many driver would have a clue what the stop hand movement meant? They would probably think that the cyclist was calling them a wker and then run them off the road

How often does that really matter though? How often does a cyclist crush another road user by turning accross them?

Exactly.

And also cyclists aren't being paid.

Just as I expect airline pilots to fly to a higher standard than the weekend flyer in his Cessna, then so should cab drivers drive better than Doris in her Micra going to the shops.

So using that logic, cycle couriers should be the paragon of virtue as well

[Zaxxon]

oyster said:

Exactly.

And also cyclists aren't being paid.

Just as I expect airline pilots to fly to a higher standard than the weekend flyer in his Cessna, then so should cab drivers drive better than Doris in her Micra going to the shops.

Have you ever met a black cab driver? You're expecting standards?

[will_]

Zaxxon said:

will_ said:

How often does that really matter though? How often does a cyclist crush another road user by turning accross them?

It matters quite a lot if the cyclist want to state their intention so that the following car driver does not crush them.

There is no need for a cyclist to "state their intenion" in order to avoid being crushed - they are only in trouble if a vehicle turns into or accross them. That can only occur if the vehicle is alongside, and turns without a care for the cyclist; or if the vehicle is behind, semi-overtakes and then hits the cyclist. In either scnario an indication wouldn't make any difference (particularly as, with most "left turning" accidents, the cyclist is heading straight on, whereas the vehicle is making the turn - i.e. there is no indication the cyclist could make).

I'm not debating that it's good practice to signal intentions (for all road users), but I can't see how it helps in avoiding cyclists getting crushed by turning vehicles.

[will_]

eccles said:

oyster said:

will_ said:

Zaxxon said:

How often do you see cyclists signalling their intention??

And if they did.....just how many driver would have a clue what the stop hand movement meant? They would probably think that the cyclist was calling them a wker and then run them off the road

How often does that really matter though? How often does a cyclist crush another road user by turning accross them?

Exactly.

And also cyclists aren't being paid.

Just as I expect airline pilots to fly to a higher standard than the weekend flyer in his Cessna, then so should cab drivers drive better than Doris in her Micra going to the shops.

So using that logic, cycle couriers should be the paragon of virtue as well

Yes, absolutely they should.

[aizvara]

RIP.

The only time I've had a problem anything like this was when I was already waiting to turn left. A coach arrived shortly afterwards and blocked most of my view of traffic from the right. So I had to wait for him to go, and when he did he effectively forced me off the road.

With hindsight, I should have just got off the road as soon as he pulled up, but that could get tedious. And if I were at one of those junctions with a pavement barrier, I could be stuck.

I did wince this morning when I watched a girl on a bike try to squeeze to the left of a slowing bus. I don't really understand the thought process involved; everyone must be fairly aware of the fact that buses frequently pull in left to stop. Perhaps it is the painted on cycle lanes that make people think this is a good idea? (Not that there was one in this situation). However it seems to me that this is fairly similar to those people who put their cars alongside long vehicles on roundabouts; not really thinking about space and consequences.