Chavez is dead
Discussion
Dixie68 said:
I'm amazed that lefties who have never been to the country are telling the people who have actually lived there that they're wrong. I guess that in socialist's eyes there's no such thing as a 'bad socialist'.
How very dare you suggest that real experience is valid in the face of something dreamt up in a focus group from a leftist think tank. Smiler. said:
Dixie68 said:
I'm amazed that lefties who have never been to the country are telling the people who have actually lived there that they're wrong. I guess that in socialist's eyes there's no such thing as a 'bad socialist'.
How very dare you suggest that real experience is valid in the face of something dreamt up in a focus group from a leftist think tank. 
0a said:
I had the misfortune of listening to Ken this morning on radio 4 and his fawning over Chavez, and almost gleefully glossing over his friendships with dictators the world over. Utterly appalling!
Chavez wasn't a dictator. Even his electoral opponents agreed.THIS is a dictator (the one on the left)
I don't understand all this "Chavez was terrible" sentiment.
Venezuelan GDP peaked in the late 70's and the countries economy had been in decline to 2003. The poverty rate had doubled by the mid-90's almost two thirds of Venezuelans where living under the poverty line. This accompanied by the social problems brought by widespread unemployment like crime. Largely Chavez has delivered post-2003 when he managed to get the oil business sorted out and reversed the long-term economic decline, it’s growth hasn’t been stunning but it’s knocked the socks off most developed countries over the same duration of course.
Also you may see him as a socialist but government spending as a % of GDP is still way lower than the UK, as is their debt to GDP ratio. Venezuela still isn’t as equal in income as most developed countries but it’s shown improvement.
However I’d make it clear I’m not a fan boy, his government created many white elephant projects and squanders oil revenue. Venezuela has been charging headlong in the right direction but it still has many social problems that need to be addressed and to find some balance between state and private sector if it’s to diversify its economy. Equally the political situation has stabalised and improved but still has a lot more reform required.
Venezuelan GDP peaked in the late 70's and the countries economy had been in decline to 2003. The poverty rate had doubled by the mid-90's almost two thirds of Venezuelans where living under the poverty line. This accompanied by the social problems brought by widespread unemployment like crime. Largely Chavez has delivered post-2003 when he managed to get the oil business sorted out and reversed the long-term economic decline, it’s growth hasn’t been stunning but it’s knocked the socks off most developed countries over the same duration of course.
Also you may see him as a socialist but government spending as a % of GDP is still way lower than the UK, as is their debt to GDP ratio. Venezuela still isn’t as equal in income as most developed countries but it’s shown improvement.
However I’d make it clear I’m not a fan boy, his government created many white elephant projects and squanders oil revenue. Venezuela has been charging headlong in the right direction but it still has many social problems that need to be addressed and to find some balance between state and private sector if it’s to diversify its economy. Equally the political situation has stabalised and improved but still has a lot more reform required.
speedy_thrills said:
I don't understand all this "Chavez was terrible" sentiment.
Venezuelan GDP peaked in the late 70's and the countries economy had been in decline to 2003. The poverty rate had doubled by the mid-90's almost two thirds of Venezuelans where living under the poverty line. This accompanied by the social problems brought by widespread unemployment like crime. Largely Chavez has delivered post-2003 when he managed to get the oil business sorted out and reversed the long-term economic decline, it’s growth hasn’t been stunning but it’s knocked the socks off most developed countries over the same duration of course.
Also you may see him as a socialist but government spending as a % of GDP is still way lower than the UK, as is their debt to GDP ratio. Venezuela still isn’t as equal in income as most developed countries but it’s shown improvement.
However I’d make it clear I’m not a fan boy, his government created many white elephant projects and squanders oil revenue. Venezuela has been charging headlong in the right direction but it still has many social problems that need to be addressed and to find some balance between state and private sector if it’s to diversify its economy. Equally the political situation has stabalised and improved but still has a lot more reform required.
He's a socialist, so he's never going to go down well on PH. And in wider terms, he told the US to toss off so is straight away Demon/Dictator/Antichrist/Enemy No. 1.Venezuelan GDP peaked in the late 70's and the countries economy had been in decline to 2003. The poverty rate had doubled by the mid-90's almost two thirds of Venezuelans where living under the poverty line. This accompanied by the social problems brought by widespread unemployment like crime. Largely Chavez has delivered post-2003 when he managed to get the oil business sorted out and reversed the long-term economic decline, it’s growth hasn’t been stunning but it’s knocked the socks off most developed countries over the same duration of course.
Also you may see him as a socialist but government spending as a % of GDP is still way lower than the UK, as is their debt to GDP ratio. Venezuela still isn’t as equal in income as most developed countries but it’s shown improvement.
However I’d make it clear I’m not a fan boy, his government created many white elephant projects and squanders oil revenue. Venezuela has been charging headlong in the right direction but it still has many social problems that need to be addressed and to find some balance between state and private sector if it’s to diversify its economy. Equally the political situation has stabalised and improved but still has a lot more reform required.
Art0ir said:
. And in wider terms, he told the US to toss off so is straight away Demon/Dictator/Antichrist/Enemy No. 1.
Saddam/Gaddafi/Chavez - all gone, all had plenty of oil, all upset the US.Syria/Iran under siege oil & gas.
That leaves the Saudis/Qataris.Sunni circle - friends of America/American leaders
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Spent approx 6 weeks there in 2003, he had destroyed the place even back then. Despite having oil there were fuel shortages and cars queuing at empty petrol stations. Funny that the nearest that most of his UK supporters have got to Venezuela is the Canary Islands LOL (unless on a free junket like Livingstoned etc).Art0ir said:
speedy_thrills said:
I don't understand all this "Chavez was terrible" sentiment.
Venezuelan GDP peaked in the late 70's and the countries economy had been in decline to 2003. The poverty rate had doubled by the mid-90's almost two thirds of Venezuelans where living under the poverty line. This accompanied by the social problems brought by widespread unemployment like crime. Largely Chavez has delivered post-2003 when he managed to get the oil business sorted out and reversed the long-term economic decline, it’s growth hasn’t been stunning but it’s knocked the socks off most developed countries over the same duration of course.
Also you may see him as a socialist but government spending as a % of GDP is still way lower than the UK, as is their debt to GDP ratio. Venezuela still isn’t as equal in income as most developed countries but it’s shown improvement.
However I’d make it clear I’m not a fan boy, his government created many white elephant projects and squanders oil revenue. Venezuela has been charging headlong in the right direction but it still has many social problems that need to be addressed and to find some balance between state and private sector if it’s to diversify its economy. Equally the political situation has stabalised and improved but still has a lot more reform required.
He's a socialist, so he's never going to go down well on PH. And in wider terms, he told the US to toss off so is straight away Demon/Dictator/Antichrist/Enemy No. 1.Venezuelan GDP peaked in the late 70's and the countries economy had been in decline to 2003. The poverty rate had doubled by the mid-90's almost two thirds of Venezuelans where living under the poverty line. This accompanied by the social problems brought by widespread unemployment like crime. Largely Chavez has delivered post-2003 when he managed to get the oil business sorted out and reversed the long-term economic decline, it’s growth hasn’t been stunning but it’s knocked the socks off most developed countries over the same duration of course.
Also you may see him as a socialist but government spending as a % of GDP is still way lower than the UK, as is their debt to GDP ratio. Venezuela still isn’t as equal in income as most developed countries but it’s shown improvement.
However I’d make it clear I’m not a fan boy, his government created many white elephant projects and squanders oil revenue. Venezuela has been charging headlong in the right direction but it still has many social problems that need to be addressed and to find some balance between state and private sector if it’s to diversify its economy. Equally the political situation has stabalised and improved but still has a lot more reform required.
sjn2004 said:
Spent approx 6 weeks there in 2003, he had destroyed the place even back then. Despite having oil there were fuel shortages and cars queuing at empty petrol stations. Funny that the nearest that most of his UK supporters have got to Venezuela is the Canary Islands LOL (unless on a free junket like Livingstoned etc).
Petrol shortages, not nice, I remember the times we had them in the UK, most recently last year. Have you kept in touch with anyone to see if there has been any developments in Venezuela in the 9 years since you last went there?sjn2004 said:
Art0ir said:
So is that what you call a socialists idea of Utopia, I suppose its just a "redistribution of wealth" as one SWP once described it.
For what it's worth I have no love of socialism so you can throw around buzzwords like "Utopia" all you like to try to devalue my post.
Edited by Art0ir on Wednesday 6th March 23:42
Mermaid said:
Saddam/Gaddafi/Chavez - all gone, all had plenty of oil, all upset the US.
Syria/Iran under siege oil & gas.
That leaves the Saudis/Qataris.Sunni circle - friends of America/American leaders
"At the start of the 21st century, Venezuela was the world's fifth largest exporter of crude oil, with oil accounting for 85.3% of the country's exports, therefore dominating the country's economy. Previous administrations had sought to privatise this industry, with U.S. corporations having a significant level of control, but the Chávez administration wished to curb this foreign control over the country's natural resources by nationalising much of it under the state-run oil company, Petróleos de Venezuela "Syria/Iran under siege oil & gas.
That leaves the Saudis/Qataris.Sunni circle - friends of America/American leaders
Third world countries trying to control their own resources never goes down well in the first world.
Art0ir said:
sjn2004 said:
Art0ir said:
So is that what you call a socialists idea of Utopia, I suppose its just a "redistribution of wealth" as one SWP once described it.
For what it's worth I have no love of socialism so you can throw around buzzwords like "Utopia" all you like to try to devalue my post.
Edited by Art0ir on Wednesday 6th March 23:42
Tell me, how many times did you see Venezuela first hand?
sjn2004 said:
One hour, thats how long I'd give you as a gringo if you went to Caracas before being robbed or held up.
No chance of that happening in our Utopia. Bet they even let psychos out over there, saying they're reformed and safe. Bet some of them would even decapitate an innocent bystander. Bet their hospitals are dreadful places, where thousands die needlessly. I agree must be absolutely dreadful. Bet they have surveilance cameras everywhere spying on the people. Good god, imagine being robbed or mugged in the street, christ, that is absolutely unthinkable. Phew! Thank god for our utopia.
oh wait a minute...
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