What a disaster the Tories are.

[s3fella]

DavidJG said:

And when we do, and the economy gets really bad, and c.1M people join the ranks of the unemployed, the leavers will blame the EU / America / Russia / immigrants etc - never once admitting that leaving the EU was in reality a huge step in the wrong direction.

Me & my family? We're leaving the nasty little xenophobic nation the the UK has become (or has always been, but is now more open about). Just trying to decide exactly where to go... Canada, Australia, NZ are all looking good at present, but options within Europe also being actively considered......

Hilarious that you call the UK "nasty and xenophobic" and consider Australia as an alternative..! Do a bit of research if you want to see how they treat potential immigrants! Hardly the panacea of integration is Oz!

But don't let that stop you leaving, I have a feeling UK won't miss you! Switzerland is lovely, and they are very inclusive there you know!
Molenbeek is lovely this time of year, too.

[ThunderGuts]

JawKnee said:

ThunderGuts said:

Why do you think it would be a bad thing... Easier to answer?

My assumption is that if you feel so strongly about it, you can explain why.

For a start, if the price of goods from the EU shoots up then we are likely to buy less from them. That weakens our hand when negotiating Brexit. So "they need us more than we need them" argument looks even more ridiculous.

So potentially a positive impact on our balance of payments (deficit).

Anything else?

Edited by ThunderGuts on Tuesday 11th October 15:41

[Pesty]

TankRizzo said:

Your crying only makes it sweeter

Can you imagine if trump gets in too. Some of these precious snowflakes will explode

[Esseesse]

Pesty said:

TankRizzo said:

Your crying only makes it sweeter

Can you imagine if trump gets in too. Some of these precious snowflakes will explode

Pound might strengthen against the dollar though.

[Jockman]

JawKnee said:

For a start, if the price of goods from the EU shoots up then we are likely to buy less from them. That weakens our hand when negotiating Brexit. So "they need us more than we need them" argument looks even more ridiculous.

I thought we already were buying less from them?

[irocfan]

DavidJG said:

Hosenbugler said:

DavidJG said:

And when we do, and the economy gets really bad, and c.1M people join the ranks of the unemployed, the leavers will blame the EU / America / Russia / immigrants etc - never once admitting that leaving the EU was in reality a huge step in the wrong direction.

Me & my family? We're leaving the nasty little xenophobic nation the the UK has become (or has always been, but is now more open about). Just trying to decide exactly where to go... Canada, Australia, NZ are all looking good at present, but options within Europe also being actively considered......

It certainly will be a little less nasty once you have gone. Hopefully soon, as you will no doubt agree.

Getting a bit personal, aren't you, c0ckwomble? Someone who doesn't hold racist, xenophobic views is nasty? Maybe you should go back to your KKK / BNP / EDL fantasy world and suck Nigel Farage's c0ck while you're there?

let's see the above post isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of your being 'nice' - then when it follows this...
"Except that when I go, the folks who I employ will be out of work. I can only hope that sidicks loses his income / livelihood / career too, simply 'cause he's one of those people who can't accept people who have a point of view that's different to his, especially when he's being a dick."
seriously old chap I think this country is better off without you - now if we can get rid of those idiots who think that a vote for brexit means they can be racist (as well as those who think a vote for brexit means everyone is racist) we'll have a lovelier place here

[s3fella]

DavidJG said:

Nope, when I leave I'll be breaking off ties with the UK. And laughing as it sinks into obscurity. Without trying to be offensive, the behaviour of a small but significant minority of people in this country is simply not compatible with my personal values. As this behaviour is certainly not being stopped or controlled, it's time to leave. A country where an MP is killed for supporting 'remain', people have been attacked (and in at least one case killed) for being Polish, is simply not somewhere that I wish to stay. When we add to that the anti-migrant position now taken by the UK government, it's time to get out. Discrimination or hatred of others, based simply on where they were born is not, and should never be acceptable. However, the government message is quite different, and I'm no longer willing to support this party or government whilst this is the case.

I hadn't realised how truly unpleasant some of the people on this forum are until recently; I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but my fellow Brits continue to be a source of unending disappointment.

Of course the Polish and indeed their Eastern European counterparts are fabulous on integration in their homelands, aren't they? It's like a video for Ebony and Ivory over there!!
It's great that you wish to leave and yet the UK seems to be rather popular with the people you are championing, here.

It sounds to me you like you don't get on with "non inclusive" people. I have a feeling you will have a very narrow choice of where to go, forget the Middle East for a start.

Edited by s3fella on Tuesday 11th October 15:48

[dazwalsh]

jonnyb said:

The entire nation didn't vote for Brexit, not even 50% of it voted for Brexit. In fact only about 38% voted for Brexit.

However, the Xenophobic, racist idiots have currently got the upper hand and are shouting loudest.

Its not the country I knew and loved.

Even if we take your dumbarse calculations for the percentage its how democracy works, so accept the result, be unhappy about it by all means but less of the insults just because it didnt go your way, its extremely petty, Like a child kicking off in the supermarket because mummy didnt buy the sweets.

Edited by dazwalsh on Tuesday 11th October 15:52

[irocfan]

jonnyb said:

The entire nation didn't vote for Brexit, not even 50% of it voted for Brexit. In fact only about 38% voted for Brexit.
However, the Xenophobic, racist idiots have currently got the upper hand and are shouting loudest.
Its not the country I knew and loved.

I have to be honest old chap - from where I am sitting it seems to be the remainers who are shouting loudest & being the least understanding of what democracy means. I'll admit that there seems to have been an uptick in xenophobic nonsense - hopefully these loons will quickly realise their vile views are not shared

[JawKnee]

ThunderGuts said:

JawKnee said:

ThunderGuts said:

Why do you think it would be a bad thing... Easier to answer?

My assumption is that if you feel so strongly about it, you can explain why.

For a start, if the price of goods from the EU shoots up then we are likely to buy less from them. That weakens our hand when negotiating Brexit. So "they need us more than we need them" argument looks even more ridiculous.

So potentially a positive impact on our balance of payments (deficit).

Edited by ThunderGuts on Tuesday 11th October 15:41

Is that more important right now than getting the best deal for Britain?

[markcoznottz]

Hoofy said:

Heard on LBC someone saying it was too complicated a decision to let the public have a vote on. They were, however, happy to let us have a vote on it 30 years ago when we voted to join the EU.

As an aside, I've never called myself or felt "European". I've always thought of Europe as that land mass over the channel. Can't be the only one?

Usual Suspects throwing around words it's a totally circular argument, yes there are people who don't like 'brown people' but that isn't racist, a lot of other races/ nationalities don't really like us so what. The eu and the political elite have not fully engaged with the electorate , all people see is foreign individuals coming to live here, if they have a vote they will vote for 'the old days' not the eu's vision of the future. Rich landowners/ big business etc have had their cake, where is the working class sweetener? You can't run a superstate with consent, even the mafia knew which palms to grease.

[s3fella]

dazwalsh said:

DavidJG said:

And when we do, and the economy gets really bad, and c.1M people join the ranks of the unemployed, the leavers will blame the EU / America / Russia / immigrants etc - never once admitting that leaving the EU was in reality a huge step in the wrong direction.

Me & my family? We're leaving the nasty little xenophobic nation the the UK has become (or has always been, but is now more open about). Just trying to decide exactly where to go... Canada, Australia, NZ are all looking good at present, but options within Europe also being actively considered......

I think you pulled the first paragraph from your arse, how do you know thats going to happen?

Are you not jumping the gun a little with your swift exit?

Even if he is right on the numbers, our unemployment would still be lower than France, massively lower than Spain and Italy. And not too much higher than Aus and NZ and about the same as Canada, all places he aspires to live. We currently have much lower unemployment that all those places.
He's a moron, who knows fk all about fk all. Please don't try to persuade him to stay!

[ThunderGuts]

JawKnee said:

ThunderGuts said:

JawKnee said:

ThunderGuts said:

Why do you think it would be a bad thing... Easier to answer?

My assumption is that if you feel so strongly about it, you can explain why.

For a start, if the price of goods from the EU shoots up then we are likely to buy less from them. That weakens our hand when negotiating Brexit. So "they need us more than we need them" argument looks even more ridiculous.

So potentially a positive impact on our balance of payments (deficit).

Edited by ThunderGuts on Tuesday 11th October 15:41

Is that more important right now than getting the best deal for Britain?

You're suggesting the strength of the pound is the only thing...

Wish to add anything else?

[Mark Benson]

jonnyb said:

dbdb said:

MarshPhantom said:

Their fault we are leaving Europe.

The idiots have taken over.

I must admit I feel like this too, not that it makes a bit of difference to anything. The margin to leave the EU may have been a small one but it seems to have changed everything. Politics seems to have veered into the extremes and to be immeasurably coarsened. No doubt I will be laughed at by most of the posters here and they will sincerely enjoy my distress, but I genuinely do feel that my beloved country has been stolen and hijacked by cavemen. I now understand how my grandfather felt in the 1970s when he described the country as, "going to the dogs"; for him it was militant trades unionism, for me it is militant Brexiteers. To my shame I voted Conservative at the last election (and the previous one and the one before that etc. etc.) but I will not do so again.

Of course Labour has shown the worst possible timing for its own crash into the extremist undergrowth. Under Corbyn, Labour are not a viable alternative to anything and their only usefulness is as a cautionary tale. It is a warning the Conservative party should heed. UKIP is the Tory party's 'Momentum'. By embracing a Hard/Closed Brexit and damaging the economy, moderate Tories like me will desert them. The Conservative Right may think this does not matter or may even consider it a good thing to lose the Tory Left - but it does matter since long-term the casting votes are found in the Centre ground and I don't think Brexit will change this.

Theresa May by setting out a Hard Brexit stall for her negotiations has closed down many of her options - which is why the Hard Right is so jubilant and so enthusiastic about her as leader. I feel this is at best inept and her inflexibility and aggressiveness towards opponents is reminiscent of Gordon Brown. Like Brown, I feel Theresa May is at her high water mark right at the start of her premiership, before the harsh realities of her situation manifest themselves. If she were to fight a General Election now, before the realities of the new-normal show themselves, I feel she would win it with a much improved majority. This is the period of 'phoney-war'; it will not last. The next two years will be one of reckoning. If the wheels fall off, then May's Government will unravel quickly. She has many enemies and seems hell-bent on creating even more.

Of course, if her Hard Brexit works - or if it is just a negotiating position for a more sensible exit - then history will be kind to her.

This pretty much sums up my feelings too.

To my shame also a life long Conservative voter, not any more.

I think you're believing too much of the woe-is-me stuff you're reading and hearing. You know the 'Despite Brexit fears....' followed by some news that things aren't all that bad really.

You (dbdb) hint at 'hard' Brexit being possibly a negotiating tactic, well exactly. If we learned anything from Cameron's attempt to negotiate pre-referendum it's that if you want a puppy, you ask for a pony and be prepared to negotiate down.

But if you go looking for scare-stories you'll find an abundance, many of them put out by people who want to see Brexit fail and whose only aim is to try and scare the nervous into lobbying hard enough for a 'soft' Brexit. It seems like yesterday that we were lectured by remainers that the behaviour of the FTSE 100 and 250 would be seen as the indicator of how adversely we would be affected by a vote to leave. But not now, it seems. Now it's the pound and the non-existent increase in 'hate crime'.

As for 'soft' Brexit being an option, the EU wants to keep the four freedoms intact and that is central to being part of the Single Market. To keep any or all of them would mean we are not leaving the EU which is what the referendum was based on. Far better that we discuss how to access the internal market with free trade arrangements that would work for both the EU and the UK.

But you don't start those negotiations with the possibility that we might remain, even in part a member of the EU. So by that logic, your initial positon is that of so called 'hard' (but in reality the only kind of) Brexit and take it from there.

[rampageturke]

Digga said:

All of which does not necessarily mean gloom and doom.

so we're back to where we wree except our currency is worth less now? somehow thats good?

[anonymous-user]

DavidJG said:

Me & my family? We're leaving the nasty little xenophobic nation the the UK has become (or has always been, but is now more open about). Just trying to decide exactly where to go... Canada, Australia, NZ are all looking good at present, but options within Europe also being actively considered......

You may wish to look up race relations issues in Australia and New Zealand, you Pommy bd.

[anonymous-user]

s3fella said:

Hilarious that you call the UK "nasty and xenophobic" and consider Australia as an alternative..! Do a bit of research if you want to see how they treat potential immigrants! Hardly the panacea of integration is Oz!

But don't let that stop you leaving, I have a feeling UK won't miss you! Switzerland is lovely, and they are very inclusive there you know!
Molenbeek is lovely this time of year, too.

+ 1 He might also check out Canada without the rose tinted specs as well.

A few terms worth throwing in google First Nations, Truth And Reconciliation Commission, Residential schools, Cultural genocide, Oil pipelines etc.

[alock]

JawKnee said:

alock said:

JawKnee said:

We're still heading in the direction of the flash crash lows and then some. Bloomberg now wondering if we could reach parity next year with the dollar! This is entirely Brexit related.

I can't wait. Working for a computer software company, our product is 100% manufactured in the UK and 70% of our sales are in the US, with the rest being in the UK.

And the talent you recruit, if it's anyhting like Software companies I've worked for most of the developers aren't British. There aren't enough skilled homegrown Software Engineers in this country. You're going to have to start paying them more to keep hold of them.

In other sectors also, with a weaker pound I wouldn't be surprised if we begin facing a brain drain, were our citizens increasingly start working abroad because of the extra income. Another reason businesses are legitimately concerned about a Hard Brexit.

Our company and many others I know of appear to be nothing like the companies you've worked for. We're all British and are long term employees with no interest in changing jobs just to chase currency fluctuations.

[irocfan]

Vandenberg said:

s3fella said:

Hilarious that you call the UK "nasty and xenophobic" and consider Australia as an alternative..! Do a bit of research if you want to see how they treat potential immigrants! Hardly the panacea of integration is Oz!

But don't let that stop you leaving, I have a feeling UK won't miss you! Switzerland is lovely, and they are very inclusive there you know!
Molenbeek is lovely this time of year, too.

+ 1 He might also check out Canada without the rose tinted specs as well.

A few terms worth throwing in google First Nations, Truth And Reconciliation Commission, Residential schools, Cultural genocide, Oil pipelines etc.

oh please don't try and dissuade the idiot - the sooner people like him leave the better off we'll all be

[JawKnee]

ThunderGuts said:

JawKnee said:

ThunderGuts said:

JawKnee said:

ThunderGuts said:

Why do you think it would be a bad thing... Easier to answer?

My assumption is that if you feel so strongly about it, you can explain why.

For a start, if the price of goods from the EU shoots up then we are likely to buy less from them. That weakens our hand when negotiating Brexit. So "they need us more than we need them" argument looks even more ridiculous.

So potentially a positive impact on our balance of payments (deficit).

Edited by ThunderGuts on Tuesday 11th October 15:41

Is that more important right now than getting the best deal for Britain?

You're suggesting the strength of the pound is the only thing...

Wish to add anything else?

The only thing what?

I'll ask the question again. Is reducing the balance of payments more important than having a stronger hand in Brexit negotiations?