Boris. £350m for the NHS if we leave EU. Again.
Discussion
JulianPH said:
TooMany2cvs said:
When did you last vote for a minister or even PM at Westminster? They're the nearest equivalent to a commissioner. They don't make the decisions - the MEPs do that.
When I last voted for an MP or in a General Election.("or"...?)
JulianPH said:
Those that go on to win the vote have a mandate to form a Government. Commissioner's are appointed, not democratically elected.
Strange how you're happy for the PM to appoint ministers, without any confirmation from any elected representative, but regard their appointment of a commissioner as "unelected".JulianPH said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Remember - ministers don't have to be MPs... and three of the last five PMs to take office have not done so on the back of leading their party into an election, but purely from an internal party selection.
Ministers are always MP's with the very small exception of Life Peers.JulianPH said:
PM's have to have been democratically voted MPs who succeed to office off the back of a democratic party leadership vote.
If there is one. There hasn't been for the last two mid-term changes. Even then, it's a purely party-internal vote..JulianPH said:
TooMany2cvs said:
One of the commisioners is appointed by the UK PM. The portfolios are proposed by the president (elected from the commissioners by the heads of the member governments), and confirmed by MEPs.
Fantastic! You have proved that they are appointed (not voted in) by the president (not voted in) and that MEPs only confirm what has happened. Brilliant!JulianPH said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Perhaps if people understood that a bit better, the UK wouldn't have been a third down on voting strength in the European Parliament since 2014.
We DO understand it. Perhaps you should, too.JulianPH said:
Simple question for the remainers on here, having seen and heard the stance of the EU a year later (including the announcement of an EU Army, EU Foreign Minister, widening of the Schengen and Euro zone, more EU control towards what look to be a further move towards a federal United States of Europe) do you still think we should remain if you were voting again now?
It's easy-if still vote to remain.We had enough control over the EU that we could opt out or veto most things that are now happening.
It's become a self fulfilling prophecy for the leavers-we were the brake on many of these things happening but the leave campaign managed to stir up enough fear about them that we voted to leave.
Now we have voted to leave our brake has been removed and the EU is moving in a direction it never would if we were still there, but the leavers now get to crow about how they are right. But they're only 'right' because we voted to leave.
So no-what the EU has announced wouldn't change my vote because it would never have happened if we'd voted to remain.
Eddie Strohacker said:
This kind of blatant dishonesty should automatically get any MP fired. It basically amounts to lying to a (statistically) uneducate populace in order to get their votes.Along with the way that opposition always seem to find the small percentage of people who will be worst affected by any government change and then bang a drum as though they're representative of a government's actions. Is there any country with a government and opposition both run by rational adults?
cookie118 said:
So no-what the EU has announced wouldn't change my vote because it would never have happened if we'd voted to remain.
And it would still not happen to the UK if we changed our minds and aborted the process. Whether it would happen if the UK left and then applied to rejoin is of course a potentially very different matter.cookie118 said:
It's easy-if still vote to remain.
We had enough control over the EU that we could opt out or veto most things that are now happening.
It's become a self fulfilling prophecy for the leavers-we were the brake on many of these things happening but the leave campaign managed to stir up enough fear about them that we voted to leave.
Now we have voted to leave our brake has been removed and the EU is moving in a direction it never would if we were still there, but the leavers now get to crow about how they are right. But they're only 'right' because we voted to leave.
So no-what the EU has announced wouldn't change my vote because it would never have happened if we'd voted to remain.
Absolutely. We had enough control over the EU that we could opt out or veto most things that are now happening.
It's become a self fulfilling prophecy for the leavers-we were the brake on many of these things happening but the leave campaign managed to stir up enough fear about them that we voted to leave.
Now we have voted to leave our brake has been removed and the EU is moving in a direction it never would if we were still there, but the leavers now get to crow about how they are right. But they're only 'right' because we voted to leave.
So no-what the EU has announced wouldn't change my vote because it would never have happened if we'd voted to remain.
We held back the EU army momentum for years. It was always there but we always wanting sovereignty for nations above the EU. That the EU is now emboldened to ignore our demands is down to brexit.
It is why the outcome is so frustrating. All predictable, all the warnings ignored - and now they are put forward as "good job we got out". No. The brexit vote has driven the direction of the EU in directions that we will regret.
We should still re-evaluate the decision as there is little doubt the EU would welcome the UK back on its existing terms if there was a democratic u-turn. It would be seen as a positive case for the EU conquering the divisive selfish nationalism that seems to have just swung the vote the way of the Faragistas.
We appear to have a deficit of MPs will big enough balls to do it at the moment, sadly, but 2018 could bring some surprises, if not sooner.
Dr Jekyll said:
///ajd said:
We should still re-evaluate the decision as there is little doubt the EU would welcome the UK back on its existing terms if there was a democratic u-turn.
You do realise they all f
king hate us?They don't like Farage is his ilk of nasty nationalist drum beating hate mongers - but then again, who does?
All nations have issues with their Pegidas and Tommy Robinsons to some extent - they understand the negative rhetoric at play, and the minority of politicians that pushed the nation into a very narrow win.
You don't think the EU would have us back if we changed our mind? I thought the lack of our money was going to 'crush them'? Make you mind up. The main reason is that us deciding to stay would make the EU more stable and promote the bloc.
You could debate whether it makes our position weaker or stronger going forwards if we did stay. On the one hand we will have backed down - i.e. we're weaker, but on the other we have shown an ability to protest and kick the EU. It would all be put down to just a daft tory stunt that got out of hand at the end of the day - which it was, wasn't it?
Pan Pan Pan said:
How long will it take people to understand that the UK has not ,and never has received a single net positive penny of funding from the EU in all the time it has been a member state of the EU.
Receiving a tiny part of the UK`s own money back out of the billions it sends into the EU`s coffers every year, does not constitute positive funding from the EU. Even then, the UK is fined by the EU if its does not spend its OWN money the way the EU tells it to.
I would love to do business with a remainer who still believes that the UK gets any cash at all from the EU.
Before I let them do any business at all with me, I would charge them say 20 quid before I would even let them talk to me about doing any business with them let alone actually do any business,
Out of the twenty quid they just handed me (for absolutely nothing) I would give them 3 of their OWN pounds back, but tell them I will punish them, if they don't spend it the way I want them to. After that I will then proceed to sell them more of my goods, and services than I let them sell their goods to me (which mean my businesses will be busier than theirs (to the tune of 71 billion pounds worth in 2016 alone, and for almost the entire time the UK has been in the EU) On top of that I will seize part of their particular natural assets for which I will pay them nothing, whilst making billions a year from it myself, and yet there are idiots out there, who think all this constitutes a great deal for the UK.????? What in heavens name planet are they on?
Pan Pan Pan - apt name. You are a perfect exemplar of the type of person who has no interest in understanding where money has been spent in this country and on what projects. Any view on the cost of brexit to city of london tax receipts as well?Receiving a tiny part of the UK`s own money back out of the billions it sends into the EU`s coffers every year, does not constitute positive funding from the EU. Even then, the UK is fined by the EU if its does not spend its OWN money the way the EU tells it to.
I would love to do business with a remainer who still believes that the UK gets any cash at all from the EU.
Before I let them do any business at all with me, I would charge them say 20 quid before I would even let them talk to me about doing any business with them let alone actually do any business,
Out of the twenty quid they just handed me (for absolutely nothing) I would give them 3 of their OWN pounds back, but tell them I will punish them, if they don't spend it the way I want them to. After that I will then proceed to sell them more of my goods, and services than I let them sell their goods to me (which mean my businesses will be busier than theirs (to the tune of 71 billion pounds worth in 2016 alone, and for almost the entire time the UK has been in the EU) On top of that I will seize part of their particular natural assets for which I will pay them nothing, whilst making billions a year from it myself, and yet there are idiots out there, who think all this constitutes a great deal for the UK.????? What in heavens name planet are they on?
///ajd said:
We held back the EU army momentum for years.
I still don't think it'll ever happen.Anyway, if it does - so what? Does it really make a big difference if wanna-be-squaddies from the UK have a choice of joining an EU army or UK army, instead of simply joining the UK army and working closely with squaddies from other countries?
(On a totally separate issue, I cannot figure out why the UK is to lurching towards 'merkin-style deification of squaddies and ex-squaddies, anyway. It's just some people who chose to do a particular job. It's not like it should come as a surprise to them that it might not be safest job in the world - although ironically it's safer now than it's ever been.)
Still, I'm sure those shouting loudly about democratic deficits are similarly outraged over the Repeal Bill's utter power-grab, with ministers able to simply introduce changes to any legislation they feel like, without reference to MPs. Oh, wait. They promise faithfully they won't abuse that...
mx5nut said:
amgmcqueen said:
You mean the £32billion emergency budget? Or the instant recession we would all be under while WW3 starts?
Oh yes, the WW3 lie. Another one of Boris' as I recall.http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/brexit-david-...
amgmcqueen said:
TooMany2cvs said:
The "project fear" tag was the Leave campaign's real genius - scaremonger as hard as you can, while pointing to reality and facts as "fear".
You mean the £32billion emergency budget? Or the instant recession we would all be under while WW3 starts?"Project fear"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...
Reality
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brex...
You might have to remind me about the WW3 claims...
Edit: Oh, right. Well, did he really threaten WW3?
Transcript:
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-speech-o...
No, that's not quite what he said, is it? But I'm sure he was wearing a lovely suit when he said whatever he said, and that's what matters most to GQ.
Edited by TooMany2cvs on Sunday 17th September 18:50
kurt535 said:
Pan Pan Pan - apt name. You are a perfect exemplar of the type of person who has no interest in understanding where money has been spent in this country and on what projects. Any view on the cost of brexit to city of london tax receipts as well?
Where our money has been spent by the EU, do you mean?Funkycoldribena said:
You recall wrong.
http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/brexit-david-...
I can't believe I'm defending David Cameron, of all people, but he suggested the EU had maintained peace and security between members. Boris later started saying "WW3" to make it seem like Remain hyperbole.http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/brexit-david-...
mx5nut said:
I can't believe I'm defending David Cameron, of all people, but he suggested the EU had maintained peace and security between members. Boris later started saying "WW3" to make it seem like Remain hyperbole.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/brexit-could-trigger-world-war-7928607https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/09/i...
Then, of course, there's...
"Project fear"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...
Reality
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brex...
"Project fear"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...
Reality
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brex...
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