Electric Scooters

[Hoofy]

frisbee said:

Hoofy said:

frisbee said:

PF62 said:

shouldbworking said:

e scooters are a non event

If used sensibly, then yes.

However almost every one you see is being ridden on the pavement by a complete moron at inappropriate speeds expecting people to move out of their way (it is fking hilarious when you don't though).

Yep, get them off the pavement:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/charing-cros...

Your point? We should not be concerned with escooter safety until cars are driven 100% safely?

Just as relevant: https://www.tampabay.com/features/humaninterest/ra...

My point is you are far more likely to be killed or injured by a car while walking on the pavement.

HTH

That's probably just for the moment, though. If the govt give the green light without any legislation, I'd expect things to be far worse if escooters are allowed on the pavement, unless they are restricted to 5mph or something.

[Xcore]

Compulsory insurance and make them ride on the road. Job done

[PF62]

Hoofy said:

frisbee said:

Hoofy said:

frisbee said:

PF62 said:

shouldbworking said:

e scooters are a non event

If used sensibly, then yes.

However almost every one you see is being ridden on the pavement by a complete moron at inappropriate speeds expecting people to move out of their way (it is fking hilarious when you don't though).

Yep, get them off the pavement:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/charing-cros...

Your point? We should not be concerned with escooter safety until cars are driven 100% safely?

Just as relevant: https://www.tampabay.com/features/humaninterest/ra...

My point is you are far more likely to be killed or injured by a car while walking on the pavement.

HTH

That's probably just for the moment, though. If the govt give the green light without any legislation, I'd expect things to be far worse if escooters are allowed on the pavement, unless they are restricted to 5mph or something.

5mph - far too fast. They need to be limited to similar to walking pace if they are to be allowed on the pavement so half that speed.

[jakesmith]

I saw these things being used all the time in San Diego, they work because there are lots of wide open spaces and huge sidewalks and also the inhabitants, unlike towns in the U.K., aren’t massive bell ends

[untakenname]

A couple of weeks back a teenager hit a bus stop near me and was hospitalised, haven't heard anything since so assume they didn't die.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk...

See quite a few of them zooming along the pavement silently, imo they should be limited to running speed.

Edited by untakenname on Sunday 4th August 17:57

[shouldbworking]

PF62 said:

5mph - far too fast. They need to be limited to similar to walking pace if they are to be allowed on the pavement so half that speed.

Make anyone who wants to go for a run do so in the road too, or wear a flashing warning light and siren on their head.

[PF62]

shouldbworking said:

PF62 said:

5mph - far too fast. They need to be limited to similar to walking pace if they are to be allowed on the pavement so half that speed.

Make anyone who wants to go for a run do so in the road too, or wear a flashing warning light and siren on their head.

So are you one of the tts who tries to do their morning jog down a crowded London street?

[the tribester]

These things are like mini motos. There are rules by which you can and cannot use them, but people buy them, and then want to use them as they wish.

Next someone will market a cheap lithium batteried helicopter, and people will rush out and buy them, and then protest that they shouldn't have to need a licence to fly them.

[Down and out]

So there's no hope of them ever catching on as it seems everyone wants them restricted, tested/tests, helmets, tax, insurance etc
What a brainwashed society we've become.

[anonymous-user]

Offer them as an option under the Motability Scheme and watch sales fly.

[Pippage]

I’m torn on this.

I walk and drive in central London and for the last year or so I been using a manual kick scooter sometimes too; I look like a prat but it halves walking time and is actually massive fun, and as far as I can make out perfectly legal to ride one anywhere, road or path, and ok if done considerately.

I’ve noticed a big increase in electric scooters and boards recently, and although I agree that they’re a great idea for low local emission transport I find them problematic. I think the difference with these compared to bikes, pedestrians, kick-scooters etc. is that the rider is generally stood stock-still but is moving very fast, and has a small ‘visual footprint’. The human eye just doesn’t notice them and identify them as moving objects when they’re approaching head-on, as it’s designed to pick up on changes to in the visual field; it notices a cyclist’s pedalling, a pedestrian’s moving legs and arms, but a ‘still’ e-scooter rider doesn’t seem to register in the same way. Added to this they also seem to be able to move very quickly, 20-25mph I estimate and not wear any sort of hi-viz.

[anonymous-user]

Pippage said:

I’m torn on this.

I walk and drive in central London and for the last year or so I been using a manual kick scooter sometimes too; I look like a prat but it halves walking time and is actually massive fun, and as far as I can make out perfectly legal to ride one anywhere, road or path, and ok if done considerately.

I’ve noticed a big increase in electric scooters and boards recently, and although I agree that they’re a great idea for low local emission transport I find them problematic. I think the difference with these compared to bikes, pedestrians, kick-scooters etc. is that the rider is generally stood stock-still but is moving very fast, and has a small ‘visual footprint’. The human eye just doesn’t notice them and identify them as moving objects when they’re approaching head-on, as it’s designed to pick up on changes to in the visual field; it notices a cyclist’s pedalling, a pedestrian’s moving legs and arms, but a ‘still’ e-scooter rider doesn’t seem to register in the same way. Added to this they also seem to be able to move very quickly, 20-25mph I estimate and not wear any sort of hi-viz.

Good observation, however it's simply solved in my opinion. They come with LED headlight which should be on all the time. I put mine on every time as I do with my motorbikes. I haven't had any issues with people not seeing me so far. Although on the busy roads in London I can imagine it could be problematic but of course there will be a transition period as pedestrians and motorists become accustomed to them on the roads (I don't agree with them on pavements personally) - after that period they will be as safe on the road as any other mode of transport so long as caution is used in the use of them and the user abides by the same rules as any other car/truck/bike road user.

[DozyGit]

They should never be made legal as they are inherently dangerous for the following reasons;
1. Small wheels, hit an uneven paver or pebble and you are thrown off.
2. Very very poor braking capacity due to high CofG
3. Very poor stability at speeds over 25kph due to shimmy effect.
4. Use it daily and say goodbye to you knee joints due to vibrations from rough road surfaces.

Instead of all this nonsense engineer proper tube and ebus systems that cover most of the city. People who want this are trying to profiteer from non engineers.

For the record I have a decathlon kick scooter with largest wheels and it’s really a hobby machine

[Pippage]

DoubleTime said:

Pippage said:

I’m torn on this.

I walk and drive in central London and for the last year or so I been using a manual kick scooter sometimes too; I look like a prat but it halves walking time and is actually massive fun, and as far as I can make out perfectly legal to ride one anywhere, road or path, and ok if done considerately.

I’ve noticed a big increase in electric scooters and boards recently, and although I agree that they’re a great idea for low local emission transport I find them problematic. I think the difference with these compared to bikes, pedestrians, kick-scooters etc. is that the rider is generally stood stock-still but is moving very fast, and has a small ‘visual footprint’. The human eye just doesn’t notice them and identify them as moving objects when they’re approaching head-on, as it’s designed to pick up on changes to in the visual field; it notices a cyclist’s pedalling, a pedestrian’s moving legs and arms, but a ‘still’ e-scooter rider doesn’t seem to register in the same way. Added to this they also seem to be able to move very quickly, 20-25mph I estimate and not wear any sort of hi-viz.

Good observation, however it's simply solved in my opinion. They come with LED headlight which should be on all the time. I put mine on every time as I do with my motorbikes. I haven't had any issues with people not seeing me so far. Although on the busy roads in London I can imagine it could be problematic but of course there will be a transition period as pedestrians and motorists become accustomed to them on the roads (I don't agree with them on pavements personally) - after that period they will be as safe on the road as any other mode of transport so long as caution is used in the use of them and the user abides by the same rules as any other car/truck/bike road user.

I can understand you’ve had no problems on a seaside promenade, I think it’s a different kettle of fish when they’re mixing it with the buses, taxis and pedestrians in the West End of London. That said, you’re right to point out that as they become a more familiar part of our surroundings and people are on the look out for them things will be a bit better.

Should they be legislated against? Well, they already are but enforcement is and will continue to be an issue due to traffic police non-presence. Further education and enforcement might prevent those with a lot to lose (ie six points for no insurance, massively increased car insurance premiums) from using them, but the many others who don’t have ability or ambition to have a UK car licence will carry on.

So, should they therefore be legalised to bring the users within the law, as it’s better for society to have a compliant population? Taking that to the n’th I guess you could say that about any rule that’s ignored and we’d end up with our laws being written by the population’s behaviours rather than the behaviours being dictated by the laws. anarchy?

Hmmm

[anonymous-user]

Maybe they could look at a lot of variations of non car based transport.
The whole issue of the motorised wheelchair things - you know the ones that a lot of suspiciously fat lazy people seem to use. The ones that thunder along the pavements and expect you to jump out of the way

[Not-The-Messiah]

My god can you imagine cars being invented today!

"What is it?"

"It's a ton and half of metal on wheels capable of traveling well above 100mph"

"Are you fking mad? people cannot be trusted with such a thing".

They just wouldn't be allowed, half the population today are like the red flag and whistle brigade.

Tell you what let's just stick with the far more deadly, polluting ton and half metal box. A little electric scooter capable of propelling some at the same speed someone can run, are you mad!

[DozyGit]

Not-The-Messiah said:

My god can you imagine cars being invented today!

"What is it?"

"It's a ton and half of metal on wheels capable of traveling well above 100mph"

"Are you fking mad? people cannot be trusted with such a thing".

They just wouldn't be allowed, half the population today are like the red flag and whistle brigade.

Tell you what let's just stick with the far more deadly, polluting ton and half metal box. A little electric scooter capable of propelling some at the same speed someone can run, are you mad!

Not really, a car is a fundamentally sound design that can be engineered, the scooter is not.

Your argument is like we allow pyramids to be built because it was done ages ago but we don’t allow an upside down pyramid. Like I said basic engineering.

[Pippage]

Not-The-Messiah said:

My god can you imagine cars being invented today!

"What is it?"

"It's a ton and half of metal on wheels capable of traveling well above 100mph"

"Are you fking mad? people cannot be trusted with such a thing".

They just wouldn't be allowed, half the population today are like the red flag and whistle brigade.

Tell you what let's just stick with the far more deadly, polluting ton and half metal box. A little electric scooter capable of propelling some at the same speed someone can run, are you mad!

Cars largely adhere to rules and there’s traceability and accountability when they don’t. Perhaps the anarchic and unpredictable nature of scooters gets people’s goat?

[Not-The-Messiah]

DozyGit said:

Not really, a car is a fundamentally sound design that can be engineered, the scooter is not.

Your argument is like we allow pyramids to be built because it was done ages ago but we don’t allow an upside down pyramid. Like I said basic engineering.

What?

What is fundamental wrong a scooter?

If I drive my car at a curb at 50mph my wheels would explode and my suspension would fall to bits. Does that not make a car fundamentally flawed? With your logic it would.
Cars work well not just because of the design of the car but the infrastructure that goes with it. There is nothing stopping the infrastructure to be built that would make scooters work far better and cars not so.

[T-195]

Pippage said:

Not-The-Messiah said:

My god can you imagine cars being invented today!

"What is it?"

"It's a ton and half of metal on wheels capable of traveling well above 100mph"

"Are you fking mad? people cannot be trusted with such a thing".

They just wouldn't be allowed, half the population today are like the red flag and whistle brigade.

Tell you what let's just stick with the far more deadly, polluting ton and half metal box. A little electric scooter capable of propelling some at the same speed someone can run, are you mad!

Cars largely adhere to rules and there’s traceability and accountability when they don’t. Perhaps the anarchic and unpredictable nature of scooters gets people’s goat?

Bingo.

Just as cyclists seem to think they are somehow above the law and shouldn't have number plates.