CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 8)

[isaldiri]

vulture1 said:

Nobody gives a fk now at 0.3% or whattever it is of fatalities. Supermarket today was rammed no distancing and everyone buying far more drink than 3 household minimum.

IMO go for survival of the fittest open everything up no restrictions and anyone wanting to shield can and get supported.

Ok and are you also going to suggest refusing treatment for any over 70s with covid symptoms to ensure that hospitals don't get clogged up as they should have known better and been shielding so it's their fault for getting ill....?

[Vanden Saab]

JohnnyJones said:

Not-The-Messiah said:

Pesty said:

This is odd WHO has changed their tune

welcome to our new world of selective truth and facts chosen for use by a moral superiors.

It really is getting like 1984.

Are we really living in this crazy parody of our world?

Science has returned to the middle ages. Told what to say by religious cults and crushing all opposition. .

[johnboy1975]

ruggedscotty said:

cold herd - where immunity is achieved through people being exposed to the virus, people going through the risks presented by contracting the disease with no pre programmed vaccine response. or hot herd where people are primed by innoculation...

i know id lean towards hot herd principles

First time I'd 'heard' (see what I did there.....) about hot and cold herd immunity.

All things being equal, I'd also go for hot herd

As this is the real world, you also need to weigh up the costs. 400b + 70,000 dead people vs "A few billion" and (arguably) a greater number of deaths.

But - on that note - I reckon I could get below 70k deaths for 50b:

8 weeks isolation for the vunerable starting 1st Feb. Care homes enforced live in (with stupid salaries). Vunerable in the community identified, furloughed, and helped by members of the community or the government. 'Hot' and 'Cold' hospitals set up. Vunerable non covid patients not to be anywhere near anything that might be covid, no staff moving between areas.

Everyone else crack on. Football goes ahead. Fully occupied tube carriages go ahead. Pubs, nightclubs, restaurants, hotels, weddings - all fine. No WFH (unless vunerable). Schools open (vunerable teachers WFH)

Other stuff to be ironed out? (That's what the bloody government is for! None of this "its too hard so we won't bother trying")

You'd get some deaths. On a personal level every death is tragic. But 10,000 deaths at a population level is insignificant:

A when compared to flu
B when compared to 70k deaths
C when compared to spending 400b trying to keep people alive, a good chunk of which are only alive because of recent mild winters.

At the end of the 8 weeks, you'd review via PCR and Antibody data. Rinse and repeat until you get the %age of the population that you want "immune".

And clap for care home workers. Every night. They do a brilliant job for £8 a sodding hour, cleaning up old peoples piss and st and dealing with dementia on a daily basis. When it is all over, find some money to fund care in the community better, including (at least) a 25% pay rise for these unsung heroes.

If we have 400b to 'spaff'.....the good it could do is immeasurable. Paying fit and healthy people to sit on their arse for a year, and buying eleventy million PCR tests is an absolute outrage. If it "needs" to be done to save us from an existential crisis such as Motaba or MERS or RAGE (fictional references), then so be it. I'm far from convinced covid19 is it.......

Edited by johnboy1975 on Thursday 24th December 22:39

Edited by johnboy1975 on Thursday 24th December 22:40

[pocty]

isaldiri said:

vulture1 said:

Nobody gives a fk now at 0.3% or whattever it is of fatalities. Supermarket today was rammed no distancing and everyone buying far more drink than 3 household minimum.

IMO go for survival of the fittest open everything up no restrictions and anyone wanting to shield can and get supported.

Ok and are you also going to suggest refusing treatment for any over 70s with covid symptoms to ensure that hospitals don't get clogged up as they should have known better and been shielding so it's their fault for getting ill....?

Not that I agree with it buts actually its not such a mad idea. Imagine being 70 plus and spending the rest of your days on a cruise, travelling or doing something special before you die.

Pocty

[Not-The-Messiah]

HoHoHo said:

stevensdrs said:

Pesty said:

This is odd WHO has changed their tune

The WHO can be put on the ignore list after publishing that nonsense.

Sadly when it counts not by those who currently make the rules.

^This and now you will get all the fact checking idiots using that new made up definition and if you don't agree you will be silenced as some sort of conspiracy loon.

[pocty]

Not-The-Messiah said:

HoHoHo said:

stevensdrs said:

Pesty said:

This is odd WHO has changed their tune

The WHO can be put on the ignore list after publishing that nonsense.

Sadly when it counts not by those who currently make the rules.

^This and now you will get all the fact checking idiots using that new made up definition and if you don't agree you will be silenced as some sort of conspiracy loon.

Amazing how they can just rewrite history.

Pocty

[cherryowen]

V1nce Fox said:

HoHoHo said:

V1nce Fox said:

HoHoHo said:

Just to confirm the JHB interview with Tobias Elwood has not been removed as suggested by some posters.

The individual one has but the day’s radio show has not and he’s still very much there making a tt of himself.

Haven't seen that one, is it recent?

here’s the full show and hopefully a link directly to st-for-brains interview.

https://youtu.be/848cd9D3TWY

thanks i’ll be watching that.

Elwood starts at about 21:00 in, but the whole slot is worth viewing; JHB at her irascible best and questioning everything.

BTW, good that markyb is back on board

Edited by cherryowen on Thursday 24th December 22:55

[Uggers]

johnboy1975 said:

First time I'd 'heard' (see what I did there.....) about hot and cold herd immunity.

All things being equal, I'd also go for hot herd

As this is the real world, you also need to weigh up the costs. 400b + 70,000 dead people vs "A few billion" and (arguably) a greater number of deaths.

But - on that note - I reckon I could get below 70k deaths for 50b:

8 weeks isolation for the vunerable starting 1st Feb. Care homes enforced live in (with stupid salaries). Vunerable in the community identified, furloughed, and helped by members of the community or the government. 'Hot' and 'Cold' hospitals set up. Vunerable non covid patients not to be anywhere near anything that might be covid, no staff moving between areas.

Everyone else crack on. Football goes ahead. Fully occupied tube carriages go ahead. Pubs, nightclubs, restaurants, hotels, weddings - all fine. No WFH (unless vunerable). Schools open (vunerable teachers WFH)

Other stuff to be ironed out? (That's what the bloody government is for! None of this "its too hard so we won't bother trying")

You'd get some deaths. On a personal level every death is tragic. But 10,000 deaths at a population level is insignificant:

A when compared to flu
B when compared to 70k deaths
C when compared to spending 400b trying to keep people alive, a good chunk of which are only alive because of recent mild winters.

At the end of the 8 weeks, you'd review via PCR and Antibody data. Rinse and repeat until you get the %age of the population that you want "immune".

And clap for care home workers. Every night. They do a brilliant job for £8 a sodding hour, cleaning up old peoples piss and st and dealing with dementia on a daily basis. When it is all over, find some money to fund care in the community better, including (at least) a 25% pay rise for these unsung heroes.

If we have 400b to 'spaff'.....the good it could do is immeasurable. Paying fit and healthy people to sit on their arse for a year, and buying eleventy million PCR tests is an absolute outrage. If it "needs" to be done to save us from an existential crisis such as Motaba or MERS or RAGE (fictional references), then so be it. I'm far from convinced covid19 is it.......

Edited by johnboy1975 on Thursday 24th December 22:39

Edited by johnboy1975 on Thursday 24th December 22:40

I did wonder about the chances of doubling care home workers salaries per hour, and pay them on a 24 hour basis. With portacabins at the back of premises for the people to sleep in.

That's around £500ish per day for car home staff to 'live in' doing 6 on 6 off.

I do the same rotation offshore for less than that and I'm on a rig sitting on top of millions of gallons of high pressure flammable oil.

We have spunked nearly £400billion and reduced the tax take by however much over the last 9 months. Just imagine what we could have done with that improving and protecting the chances of the vulnerable. But instead we paid that for people to stay at home isolating or furlough.

But I guess we will continue with the same strategy that obviously doesn't work. And continue to blame the population for not obeying the laws.

[Pesty]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9085225/B...

Scientist warns there are 'no guarantees' that vaccines will work on new South African strain: Final flight from mutant-virus stricken Johannesburg touches down hours before travel ban
Two cases of the South African variant of the virus — called 501.V2 — have been detected so far in the UK
Second mutated strain to be found in as many weeks and this version is even 'more transmissible' than first
Matt Hancock said discovery was 'highly concerning' and slapped immediate travel bans on South Africa
Unrelated cases found in London and the North West suggest the virus is likely all over England already


Some passengers managed to arrive in the UK on the last flights from South Africa ahead of the travel ban, including one that arrived from Cape Town just before 5am and one from Johannesburg that arrived at Heathrow at 7am.

Passengers arriving on the last direct flight into Heathrow from South Africa shared their surprise at the lack of precautions at the airport and said they 'breezed through immigration'.

One couple said: 'We just breezed through immigration and nothing was said. There was not a lot of clarity over this new strain of the virus,' said the passenger who asked not to be named.


Hospitals were not overran in spring. We are mid flu season and we are thousands of beds occupied lower,

Meanwhile hospitals all over the country have built extra ICU capacity.

Edited by Pesty on Thursday 24th December 22:59

[smashing]

Pesty said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9085225/B...

Scientist warns there are 'no guarantees' that vaccines will work on new South African strain: Final flight from mutant-virus stricken Johannesburg touches down hours before travel ban
Two cases of the South African variant of the virus — called 501.V2 — have been detected so far in the UK
Second mutated strain to be found in as many weeks and this version is even 'more transmissible' than first
Matt Hancock said discovery was 'highly concerning' and slapped immediate travel bans on South Africa
Unrelated cases found in London and the North West suggest the virus is likely all over England already


Some passengers managed to arrive in the UK on the last flights from South Africa ahead of the travel ban, including one that arrived from Cape Town just before 5am and one from Johannesburg that arrived at Heathrow at 7am.

Passengers arriving on the last direct flight into Heathrow from South Africa shared their surprise at the lack of precautions at the airport and said they 'breezed through immigration'.

One couple said: 'We just breezed through immigration and nothing was said. There was not a lot of clarity over this new strain of the virus,' said the passenger who asked not to be named.

around and around and around we go

[anonymous-user]

So, our biggest test processing centre... has had an outbreak of the virus.

I'm not an expert, but I did do a chemistry degree.

Surely if the people processing the test are positive themselves, they're contaminating the fking tests.

Which may just go some way to explain the weird spike in results recently.

You really can't make this st up anymore.

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/134224363654998...

[Pesty]

https://www.theblaze.com/news/ready-nyt-fauci-admi...

NYT: Fauci admits to deceiving the public about herd immunity because he wanted more people to get vaccinated


In a startling interview with the New York Times, Dr. Anthony Fauci, head of the government's coronavirus taskforce, admitted that he did not level with the American people about how many people would need to be vaccinated in order to achieve herd immunity because he didn't think the public was ready to hear his true thoughts, which he feared might discourage people from getting vaccinated.

[Pesty]

Landcrab_Six said:

So, our biggest test processing centre... has had an outbreak of the virus.

I'm not an expert, but I did do a chemistry degree.

Surely if the people processing the test are positive themselves, they're contaminating the fking tests.

Which may just go some way to explain the weird spike in results recently.

You really can't make this st up anymore.

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/134224363654998...

Yeah but look on the bright side,

This might slow down testing this reducing the numbers of people with covid.

Hence it will prove the lockdown worked

[RickSanchez]

Pesty said:

Landcrab_Six said:

So, our biggest test processing centre... has had an outbreak of the virus.

I'm not an expert, but I did do a chemistry degree.

Surely if the people processing the test are positive themselves, they're contaminating the fking tests.

Which may just go some way to explain the weird spike in results recently.

You really can't make this st up anymore.

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/134224363654998...

Yeah but look on the bright side,

This might slow down testing this reducing the numbers of people with covid.

Hence it will prove the lockdown worked

They don’t even address the idea of a contaminated test anywhere in the article, like the possibility has not even crossed their mind!

Also, merry Christmas

[R Mutt]

Predicting 500k dead would have to be based on the entire population infected and the worst estimated fatality rate, with zero pre existing immunity. Absolute disgrace that's considered science

[RickSanchez]

R Mutt said:

Predicting 500k dead would have to be based on the entire population infected and the worst estimated fatality rate, with zero pre existing immunity. Absolute disgrace that's considered science

I was surprised to find there is no real consensus on the IFR and it is different in different countries, due (probably) to health, age distribution etc.

From what I have read the IFR in the UK is around 1 but varies significantly across different age groups, doubling for every 8 years of age, up to around 5% I think for over 80s (I aren’t going to check exact figures as I am sure someone has them, also it’s Xmas eve and I closed the tab on my browser)

I would have thought a more rational approach would have been to target intervention at those in the highest IFR, i.e the elderly, but Hancock said this was not possible.

Also I was thinking, cos I have had a drink and the creative juices are flowing....

Given Disneyland is pretty much closed, could it not be commandeered, filled with vaccinated staff, then let the kids lick each other and go on a 2-3 week jolly then come back to the rest of us when they are immune

Edit: it’s clearly Xmas day!

[markyb_lcy]

cherryowen said:

BTW, good that markyb is back on board

Thanks mate!

Merry Christmas to you!

[Red Devil]

Gadgetmac responding to tonker said:

I'd try civility instead of name calling. Just a thought.

The hubris is strong in that one.

Biker 1 said:

dandarez said:

I said this yesterday.
Why is it today heads don't roll anymore?
This man is an absolute dick - he thinks like a dick, and actually used it as his brain last time when he had to resign. Unbelievable that anyone would give credence to anything he spouts.

Isn't his missus a bit of a looker with nice legs? He looks like an ugly 4-eyed twit to me, but perhaps women find him very attractive & that's the reason he keeps getting re-hired(???) Sorry, but I've run out of alternative reasons why he is still listened to...........

.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2001-12...

isaldiri said:

A little slower than the million a week earlier predicted... I wonder if it's an issue of lack of doses from Pfizer being delivered or capacity to stick needles into people. Given the NHS manages 10+m flu shots over 2.5 ish months one would have to assume it's lack of doses.so when AZN gets approved (which it will nevermind the data being relatively much less robust) that should help.....

You may be forgetting that the annual 'flu jab is normally given at your GP's premises.
I don't know what it's like in your area, but the pandemic (in particular the social distancing requirements) has had a massive impact on the way mine operates.

RickSanchez said:

They have had months to do more research into other areas, the lack of any information coming to light about possible reasons behind the disparity only leads me back to the same conclusion, that they are so entrenched in the lockdown mantra and the current course of action despite the collateral damage that they are persisting with it at all costs to the exclusion of any other possibilities.

As Mike Tyson put it, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.

We have been punched in the face, no alternative plan so we will continue getting punched

Or: Kein Operationsplan reicht mit einiger Sicherheit über das erste Zusammentreffen mit der feindlichen Hauptmacht hinaus.
Helmut von Moltke the Elder

[DukeDickson]

R Mutt said:

Predicting 500k dead would have to be based on the entire population infected and the worst estimated fatality rate, with zero pre existing immunity. Absolute disgrace that's considered science

It was broadly based on Spanish Flu applied to current world, with a bit of soucant of I'd quite some more funding

[coanda]

Pesty said:

https://www.theblaze.com/news/ready-nyt-fauci-admi...

NYT: Fauci admits to deceiving the public about herd immunity because he wanted more people to get vaccinated


In a startling interview with the New York Times, Dr. Anthony Fauci, head of the government's coronavirus taskforce, admitted that he did not level with the American people about how many people would need to be vaccinated in order to achieve herd immunity because he didn't think the public was ready to hear his true thoughts, which he feared might discourage people from getting vaccinated.

For our (their) own good...