CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 11)

[Alucidnation]

Covid laws extended until September?

I thought they were in until then anyway.

Non DM link.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56521358

[anonymous-user]

Ntv said:

Smollet said:

Ntv said:

I do think state pension should be zero increase FWIW

Care to explain unless of course you think pensioners are exempt from cost of living increases in food, utilities, council tax etc??

Nobody has just the state pension. Or if they do there are other substantial benefits they are entitled to.

But this is a case of sharing the pain fairly. Public sector pay freeze. Many pay freezes and reductions in the private sector, and much worse, unemployment for hundreds of thousands, probably millions over time.

A huge cost has been imposed on society for the benefit of the elderly.

Care to explain why you think they should be exempt from also making a contribution towards that cost?

Not sure I follow your logic entirely.

Are you saying that anyone has benefitted from what has happened in the last year and, if they have, it is only the elderly?

How does a private sector pay freeze contribute towards the cost? What about the private sector employees that haven't had pay freezes?

Are all public sector workers subject to a pay freeze?

Why should an elderly person reliant solely on the state pension be expected to endure disproportionate hardship?

[mnh]

Do these ‘journalists’ ever consider what they are reporting? Isn’t the instant reaction to news like that to wonder why? Whether there is any particular recent reason why that particular demographic might be ‘suffering’ a significant rise in positive tests? Or is journalism done by primitive AI these days ?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-...

[grumbledoak]

SCEtoAUX said:

It's as clear as day to me, they are going to bring in what is basically a "social life passport". If you wish to go to any kind of venue, pub, restaurant, hotel, music event you will need a digital passport.

Coercion as clear as night follows day. They can't hold you down and force you to have a vaccine, but they can effectively stop people having any kind of social interraction and enjoyment to make the vaccine unavoidable.

They are going to force ten million young people to be injected with a drug that has absolutely no benefit to them.

Disgusting, tyrannical, draconian and downright evil.

Social credit scoring. A health tyranny. The New Normal.

[MDMetal]

SCEtoAUX said:

But it isn't that simple, and people live under the tyranny they will tolerate. Always have done, always will. As soon as they have a working system that requires everyone to have a digital passport on their phone, they will use it in every way possible to control freedoms.

Next will be the winter flu jab. Not had one? Well you can't come in to this pub, we're protecting other people you see,
Job interviews... "Ever had a drugs problem or been treated for depression?" Show use your phone please.
Want to fly somewhere? Show your digital health passport at check-in, we don't want people on our plane who haven't had the booster for the Norwegian varient.

Far fetched? Possibly. But there has not been one single act undertaken, not one single statement, not one policy decision by this Government that suggests to me that they have any intention of returning the kind of freedoms to people that they had before COVID. Yes, the restrictions are easing, but just today the powers have been extended for months.

Yup, every precedent set, every removal of rights and freedoms can't be undone. Even if the rights and freedoms are returned the mechanism and justification to remove them again exists. We know 500,000 predicted deaths is enough, next time it'll be lower or comparatively lower. You've got to always resists the erosion of liberties, governments never willing hand out freedoms, they're always pulled out slowly by the public.

[Sahjahd]

"Alucidnation

15,800 posts

133 months

[report][news]13:35quotequote all
Elysium said:
Fortunately, this large scale gamble seems to have mostly worked out and severe adverse reactions have been thankfully rare.
It wasn't a gamble.

They was no way they would just issue and pass a vaccine because someone said 'it would probably be ok'."

They know very well that there are likely to be many severe adverse reactions; that's why the pharmas have been given a pass on them.

[Thin White Duke]

76 MP's voted against the new legislation.

Is that the biggest rebellion so far?

Here are the ones who voted No. The list to my shock contains 10 Lib Dems.

https://votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Commons/Division...

[R Mutt]

Elysium said:

Terminator X said:

This is from the Govt "nudge dept" which I note has now been split from the Govt, interesting to see what they say about vaccine messages used to increase uptake:

https://www.bi.team/blogs/four-messages-that-can-i...

"1. Helping Loved Ones tapped into people’s desire to protect and support their friends and family.

2. Approved by Healthcare Workers used the credibility and authority of healthcare workers as trusted messengers.

3. Getting Lives Back drew on the powerful motivation to return to the activities and people they are missing, without promising that life will ever fully go back to “normal.”

4. Tested by Thousands built trust in the vaccine development process, without getting bogged down in overly technical details or medical jargon."

TX.

I can live with this. In fact I broadly support the promotion of vaccination.

When it turns into coercion it crosses the line. The third one sails close to that. Vaccination can help us return to normal life, but it should never be an express condition of it.

I'd really like to get to the bottom of how much this really was a psychological gambit with the hope of scaring people in to following the rules while we awated the vaccine. It's no coincidence this approach is still prevalent in the context of vaccine uptake.

Another poster claimed with the one-way flow from SPI-B to SAGE to the government that everything was pretty transparent in the form of the minutes from the meetings, but we have the SAGE documents that prove they wished to ramp up the fear and entire lists strategies which amounted to emotional blackmail, all before the vaccine. Of course this is entirely separate from the psychology employed in government spin. A prime early example being the Stay Home campaign having already been purchased while we were still floating the herd immunity idea, allegedly to build oppostion to than and thus support for lockdowns, which Fergusson was worried 'We'd never get away with'.

Now it's clear the mere idea of vaccine passports gained a lot of momentum prompting many to get vaccinated to secure a foreign holiday. Does anyone think this was just a coincidence?

[Ashfordian]

The same people that today are constantly telling us that the vaccine is safe (short term it is safe, long term though?)

- Were telling us in March 2020 that masks were useless and even banned the Ads for masks for Covid
- Introduced the 10pm pub curfew
- Said that you could only drink in a pub with a substantial meal
- Made the Kent variant sound so scary that the UK became an isolated country within 48 hours.

And many, many more lies, mistruths and propaganda statements.

If I was over 60 I would have the vaccine when called. If I was in my 50's I would undecided. As I am in my 40's there is no rush and I can wait a couple of years and make the decision on the data, not dates. If I was in my 30's or younger you can afford to wait for a decade or longer and see how things evolve.

[London424]

RSTurboPaul said:

London424 said:

Ntv said:

Nickgnome said:

oyster said:

To add:
Public sector workers - pay freeze
Pensioners - inflation-busting pay rise

I am one of those pensioners and for many of us it is entirely wrong.

However there are millions of pensioners whose only income is that state pension It is about £175/week which does not go far if you are in rented accommodation.

To be fair, housing benefit and Pension Credit would be available to many such people.

But your point is a fair one.

I do think state pension should be zero increase FWIW

The public sector freeze also isn’t correct. They’ll still move an increment on the scale.

Not all the public sector automatically get an increment. Many are moving (already moved) to a Performance Related Pay regime, which sees lower value increments and 'one off bonuses' that mean lower pension contributions in the longer term and much longer timescales needed to 'climb the ladder' between the bottom and top of pay scales.

That’s a lot of words that say the same thing as me. Not a pay freeze.

[320d is all you need]

Elysium said:

SCEtoAUX said:

It's as clear as day to me, they are going to bring in what is basically a "social life passport". If you wish to go to any kind of venue, pub, restaurant, hotel, music event you will need a digital passport.

Coercion as clear as night follows day. They can't hold you down and force you to have a vaccine, but they can effectively stop people having any kind of social interraction and enjoyment to make the vaccine unavoidable.

They are going to force ten million young people to be injected with a drug that has absolutely no benefit to them.

Disgusting, tyrannical, draconian and downright evil.

I was worried about the vaccination of the at risk groups, but that seems to have worked out.

I actually think its going to be OK and that the vaccine passport bks is going to turn out to be just that. bks. I'm probably wrong, but I have decided to be optimistic about it.

I have come to the conclusion that this has driven a form of mental illness in most people, causing them to lose their sense of proportion and morality. Its going to be interesting to see how this is going to unwind. In the meantime, most people, including me, are already ignoring the lockdown.

Unfortunately it is all over the news today, BBC, ITV, Ch4, Sky News

Vaccine Passport this & that.

To go into a pub.

Of course everyone on the street they've asked says things like "Well if it helps everyone get back to normal....!"


This is a fking scandal and I'm very tempted to do something very illegal about it.

[R Mutt]

320d is all you need said:

Unfortunately it is all over the news today, BBC, ITV, Ch4, Sky News

Vaccine Passport this & that.

To go into a pub.

Of course everyone on the street they've asked says things like "Well if it helps everyone get back to normal....!"


This is a fking scandal and I'm very tempted to do something very illegal about it.

Like go in to a pub?

You know why this has started circulating? Because people got the vaccine to go on holiday before being told they couldn't go on holiday, so now they need to extend the idea to pubs to renew the incentive.

Having been out with a government press secretary I know how much everything is stage managed.

[CoolC]

Thin White Duke said:

76 MP's voted against the new legislation.

Is that the biggest rebellion so far?

Here are the ones who voted No. The list to my shock contains 10 Lib Dems.

https://votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Commons/Division...

Glad to see my MP is one of them.

[johnboy1975]

Thin White Duke said:

76 MP's voted against the new legislation.

Is that the biggest rebellion so far?

Here are the ones who voted No. The list to my shock contains 10 Lib Dems.

https://votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Commons/Division...

Boringvolvodriver said:

So only 76 MPs have the balls to vote against - Lib Dems were saying they would vote against!

I'm shocked too.

Predictably I've not seen MSM cover this, and I've seen a lot of news over the last year week.

Whats the story - worried about our civil liberties all of a sudden? Fair enough, at least it's woke them up

So (with 20 odd Labour MPs also voting against) - only about half of the covid recovery group voted against? That's like The Brexit Party voting for the Euro.....

Full list here (set to ayes by default) (duplication of Thin White Duke's)

My MP voted Aye.....

https://votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Commons/Division...

[JuanCarlosFandango]

https://mobile.twitter.com/hondanhon/status/137444...

Being anti mask is racist!

[anonymous-user]

mnh said:

Do these ‘journalists’ ever consider what they are reporting? Isn’t the instant reaction to news like that to wonder why? Whether there is any particular recent reason why that particular demographic might be ‘suffering’ a significant rise in positive tests? Or is journalism done by primitive AI these days ?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-...

Msm do it all the time. There was a link to an article on the last volume that there were 138 places where cases were rising, some by as much as 3! No mention of the huge increase in testing, which is actually a good news story, spun into scaremongering.

It is verging on being irresponsible, but with a government mandate to help push the narrative.

[anonymous-user]

We have gone into a national lockdown All teachers and kindergarten staff have been vaccinated so obviously they have to close. All diy and builders merchants close this time (they didn’t last time) Limits on the number of people allowed in supermarkets have been introduced however churches are open with no limits. Given the average age of a church attendee they are the most at risk of this terrible virus that we must have a test to check if we have it or not any logic that was once used in this country has now gone out of the window.

Thankfully there is a lot of push back this time and all COVID fines issued last year have been rendered null and void by the Supreme Court.

The whole situation is starting to get to both myself and my wife now. Seriously missing family back in the uk and for the first time ever genuinely worried about what is happening in the uk. Scarily my mother is accepting all of this and telling me to stay safe which has to be amongst one of the most irritating things anyone can say at the moment.

[RSTurboPaul]

London424 said:

RSTurboPaul said:

London424 said:

Ntv said:

Nickgnome said:

oyster said:

To add:
Public sector workers - pay freeze
Pensioners - inflation-busting pay rise

I am one of those pensioners and for many of us it is entirely wrong.

However there are millions of pensioners whose only income is that state pension It is about £175/week which does not go far if you are in rented accommodation.

To be fair, housing benefit and Pension Credit would be available to many such people.

But your point is a fair one.

I do think state pension should be zero increase FWIW

The public sector freeze also isn’t correct. They’ll still move an increment on the scale.

Not all the public sector automatically get an increment. Many are moving (already moved) to a Performance Related Pay regime, which sees lower value increments and 'one off bonuses' that mean lower pension contributions in the longer term and much longer timescales needed to 'climb the ladder' between the bottom and top of pay scales.

That’s a lot of words that say the same thing as me. Not a pay freeze.

Fair comment

They are not massive increments (any more) though.

IIRC it now takes about double the time to climb from the bottom to the top of the increments within a band - assuming they are awarding increments at all.

[RSTurboPaul]

CDB1983 said:

We have gone into a national lockdown All teachers and kindergarten staff have been vaccinated so obviously they have to close. All diy and builders merchants close this time (they didn’t last time) Limits on the number of people allowed in supermarkets have been introduced however churches are open with no limits. Given the average age of a church attendee they are the most at risk of this terrible virus that we must have a test to check if we have it or not any logic that was once used in this country has now gone out of the window.

Thankfully there is a lot of push back this time and all COVID fines issued last year have been rendered null and void by the Supreme Court.

The whole situation is starting to get to both myself and my wife now. Seriously missing family back in the uk and for the first time ever genuinely worried about what is happening in the uk. Scarily my mother is accepting all of this and telling me to stay safe which has to be amongst one of the most irritating things anyone can say at the moment.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who grinds my teeth whenever someone tells me to 'stay safe' - just before I climb into a 30-year old car with zero safety features and DIY work by my own hands... lol


Whereabouts are you? It's still mindboggling to think pretty much the entire world is enduring this same stshow.

[RSTurboPaul]

johnboy1975 said:

Thin White Duke said:

76 MP's voted against the new legislation.

Is that the biggest rebellion so far?

Here are the ones who voted No. The list to my shock contains 10 Lib Dems.

https://votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Commons/Division...

Boringvolvodriver said:

So only 76 MPs have the balls to vote against - Lib Dems were saying they would vote against!

I'm shocked too.

Predictably I've not seen MSM cover this, and I've seen a lot of news over the last year week.

Whats the story - worried about our civil liberties all of a sudden? Fair enough, at least it's woke them up

So (with 20 odd Labour MPs also voting against) - only about half of the covid recovery group voted against? That's like The Brexit Party voting for the Euro.....

Full list here (set to ayes by default) (duplication of Thin White Duke's)

My MP voted Aye.....

https://votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Commons/Division...

Jeremy Corbyn voted against??

At least it suggests there might (finally...) be some awakening and opposition.


I'm surprised IDS and May didn't vote against and only abstained - IDS has been pretty damning on TalkRADIO.

Have some balls, people, FFS.