G20 - 1 Trillion Dollars
Discussion
BigJonMcQuimm said:
Winky is sending another 2000 troops to Afgan
Great ... er how will we pay for this?
Well, as well as being the world's second biggest debtor, the UK is also the world's second biggest 'helper outer' with economic aid and the third biggest defence spender. More reasons we're buried under debt. Great ... er how will we pay for this?
Winky is a bit like Mrs Jellyby in Dickens' Bleak House who was rather over-occupied with good causes while her family starved.
bosscerbera said:
BigJonMcQuimm said:
Winky is sending another 2000 troops to Afgan
Great ... er how will we pay for this?
Well, as well as being the world's second biggest debtor, the UK is also the world's second biggest 'helper outer' with economic aid and the third biggest defence spender. More reasons we're buried under debt. Great ... er how will we pay for this?
Winky is a bit like Mrs Jellyby in Dickens' Bleak House who was rather over-occupied with good causes while her family starved.
4th according to this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_...
perhaps not the best source I know.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_...
perhaps not the best source I know.
Marf said:
4th according to this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_...
perhaps not the best source I know.
I had France narrowly behind the UK, happy to stand corrected. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_...
perhaps not the best source I know.
Still shocking though that after USA and China, who one would expect to be big spenders, that UK and France spend some 20% more than (of all nations!) Russia. Really, WTF do we have to defend? There are no natural resources to guard and we sold our gold and utility industries.
The Bank of England prints money, and then lends that money into the banking system, the banking system can then use the money to buy up government bond issues, thereby financing government debt. Under the Basel rules, lending into OECD governments creates tier 1 capital, and therefore means that the banks are seen as meeting capital adequacy rules. In other words, the banks return to (apparent) solvency, and the government manages to continue borrowing, and does not default on the loans. In the meantime an Act of 1844 that required the Bank of England to publish the amount of currency issued was abolished.
The first point is that it does not create value, but transfers value from the existing supply of money. You cannot create value out of thin air. If there are 100 units of currency, and you just print 10 more, all you are doing is spreading the value of the 100 units into 110, such that all of the currency is devalued. This is, of itself, highly inflationary. It is also a form of taxation. In transferring some of the value from the currency in supply into the newly printed currency, there is a movement of value to the printer of the money - the Bank of England, and eventually the government. The government are quietly taxing ever more money to pay for their borrowing. It is the ultimate stealth tax.
The original question is the wrong one. It’s not where the money comes from, but the value that money represents. That comes from the labour of the workers within the system. It is the work you, I and our great grandchildren will perform.
The first point is that it does not create value, but transfers value from the existing supply of money. You cannot create value out of thin air. If there are 100 units of currency, and you just print 10 more, all you are doing is spreading the value of the 100 units into 110, such that all of the currency is devalued. This is, of itself, highly inflationary. It is also a form of taxation. In transferring some of the value from the currency in supply into the newly printed currency, there is a movement of value to the printer of the money - the Bank of England, and eventually the government. The government are quietly taxing ever more money to pay for their borrowing. It is the ultimate stealth tax.
The original question is the wrong one. It’s not where the money comes from, but the value that money represents. That comes from the labour of the workers within the system. It is the work you, I and our great grandchildren will perform.
ked, aren't we?
Just found a post I made back in 2006 from this thread:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
"I have a feeling that after a few months of Brown, we'll look back on Tony Time as the good old days.
I REALLY hope I'm wrong."
I wasn't.
The thread makes interesting reading, especially understatement of the year from lenny007:
"The final comment i'd like to make is this. We're all hoping that slack jaw gets in and really mucks up so that Labour bite the bullet, but he's going to cause some damage to the country during that time - damage which could take the whole of the next government's first term to repair. Sobering thought."
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
"I have a feeling that after a few months of Brown, we'll look back on Tony Time as the good old days.
I REALLY hope I'm wrong."
I wasn't.
The thread makes interesting reading, especially understatement of the year from lenny007:
"The final comment i'd like to make is this. We're all hoping that slack jaw gets in and really mucks up so that Labour bite the bullet, but he's going to cause some damage to the country during that time - damage which could take the whole of the next government's first term to repair. Sobering thought."
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