High fuel prices? you aint seen nothin' yet
Discussion
Engineer1 said:
Mclovin said:
the press is starting to realise the price we pay at the pumps will be dependent on whether the markets think the deficit is being taken care of....so present useless gov still in power or hung parl we will be paying at least 2 maybe even 3 quid a litre by next year....
No if fuel gets to £2/£3 a litre then there will be quite roads at that point a commute to work and general living costs become unworkable, people's budgets don't have that slack.Deva Link said:
croyde said:
Monki said:
ln1234 said:
musclecarmad said:
I agree with deva it does make a diff. I'd like 1.50 fuel to be honest as it will affect others more than me and I want less traffic!
I drive through the London Congestion Charge zone on a regular basis, and the £8 daily charge doesn't seem to put a lot of people off - there are still traffic jams. I think even at £2 a litre most drivers wouldn't consider alternative modes of transport.
I was gonna take 2 of my kids to so my Brother in Folkestone, about 70 miles away.
Cost by train for all of us would have been £75 return, that was pre-booking the cheapest ticket.
Cost by 2.5L BMW was about £30 plus no taxis to be paid for to and from the station (NO BUSES).
So for the Train money, I traveled by car, in more comfort and in a quicker time plus had enough cash left over for a slap up feed at a Tex Mex.
Until the gubberment do something about our very expensive and crap public transport system, I'm sticking to my 17 mpg round town car.
What's the *real* per mile cost of running your car? The AA figures would probably put it around £1 per mile. How does the cost compare then?
Be careful what you wish for - there's a simple solution to equalising the cost, and that's by using tolls (or road pricing).
A quick calculation has the running costs for my car at 46p/mile thus that trip would have cost me £64 so just a bit cheaper and I should not have splurged on that Tex Mex. D'oh!
The AA published this today.
AA calls for investigation into 17% rise in petrol wholesale prices
A 17% rise in European wholesale petrol prices since late January is threatening to push UK average pump prices above the July 2008 record, warns the AA. Britain's largest motoring organisation, with around 15 million members, is calling on the Government to investigate the sudden surge.
A weaker pound is aggravating the potential for price rises, with 120p a litre possible – even before the Government is scheduled on 1 April to add 3p in fuel duty and VAT on to the cost of petrol and diesel*.
When UK petrol prices levelled at 112p a litre for almost a month in late January and February this year, wholesale petrol prices stabilised around $680 a tonne. By the end of last week, wholesale prices had reached $795, a 16.9% increase. This and a weaker pound have lifted the wholesale price in pence per litre from around 32p a litre to above 39p a litre. With VAT, that could add 8p to the January/February price.
On Sunday, average UK petrol prices rose to 115.93p a litre and, compared to late January/early February prices, the price of a tank of petrol could increase by £4. A family with two petrol cars could see the monthly cost of fuel rise £16.99 above what it was earlier this year.
Comment
"The UK is barely out of recession yet petrol prices threaten to rise to record prices seen during the boom of 2008 – shortly before the collapse into recession. If families, drivers on fixed incomes and those on low pay were unable to cope with record prices then, they are even less likely now," says Edmund King, the AA's president.
"Before this wholesale price surge works it way through to consumer spending and hits economic revival, the AA believes the Government should look at what is behind it. With refiners in Europe closing sites or looking to sell them, soaring wholesale prices could drive down demand and weaken the sector further.
"Political parties have started to jump on the bandwagon of high fuel prices, calling for a fuel price/tax stabiliser. In the AA's opinion, the easiest and quickest stabiliser would be to freeze the fuel duty increase on 1 April."
Factfile
AA calls for investigation into 17% rise in petrol wholesale prices
A 17% rise in European wholesale petrol prices since late January is threatening to push UK average pump prices above the July 2008 record, warns the AA. Britain's largest motoring organisation, with around 15 million members, is calling on the Government to investigate the sudden surge.
A weaker pound is aggravating the potential for price rises, with 120p a litre possible – even before the Government is scheduled on 1 April to add 3p in fuel duty and VAT on to the cost of petrol and diesel*.
When UK petrol prices levelled at 112p a litre for almost a month in late January and February this year, wholesale petrol prices stabilised around $680 a tonne. By the end of last week, wholesale prices had reached $795, a 16.9% increase. This and a weaker pound have lifted the wholesale price in pence per litre from around 32p a litre to above 39p a litre. With VAT, that could add 8p to the January/February price.
On Sunday, average UK petrol prices rose to 115.93p a litre and, compared to late January/early February prices, the price of a tank of petrol could increase by £4. A family with two petrol cars could see the monthly cost of fuel rise £16.99 above what it was earlier this year.
Comment
"The UK is barely out of recession yet petrol prices threaten to rise to record prices seen during the boom of 2008 – shortly before the collapse into recession. If families, drivers on fixed incomes and those on low pay were unable to cope with record prices then, they are even less likely now," says Edmund King, the AA's president.
"Before this wholesale price surge works it way through to consumer spending and hits economic revival, the AA believes the Government should look at what is behind it. With refiners in Europe closing sites or looking to sell them, soaring wholesale prices could drive down demand and weaken the sector further.
"Political parties have started to jump on the bandwagon of high fuel prices, calling for a fuel price/tax stabiliser. In the AA's opinion, the easiest and quickest stabiliser would be to freeze the fuel duty increase on 1 April."
Factfile
- Fuel duty on 1 April is due to increase by inflation + 1p, potentially 2.5p to 3p on the pump price of a litre of petrol and diesel.
Windy Vortex said:
The AA published this today.
Factfile
Increasing fuel duty above the rate of inflation in a year when many people have not got pay increases due to the recession is absolute madness in my opinion. What is their excuse for it?Factfile
- Fuel duty on 1 April is due to increase by inflation + 1p, potentially 2.5p to 3p on the pump price of a litre of petrol and diesel.
paddy27 said:
Engineer1 said:
Mclovin said:
the press is starting to realise the price we pay at the pumps will be dependent on whether the markets think the deficit is being taken care of....so present useless gov still in power or hung parl we will be paying at least 2 maybe even 3 quid a litre by next year....
No if fuel gets to £2/£3 a litre then there will be quite roads at that point a commute to work and general living costs become unworkable, people's budgets don't have that slack.croyde said:
Deva Link said:
croyde said:
Monki said:
ln1234 said:
musclecarmad said:
I agree with deva it does make a diff. I'd like 1.50 fuel to be honest as it will affect others more than me and I want less traffic!
I drive through the London Congestion Charge zone on a regular basis, and the £8 daily charge doesn't seem to put a lot of people off - there are still traffic jams. I think even at £2 a litre most drivers wouldn't consider alternative modes of transport.I was gonna take 2 of my kids to so my Brother in Folkestone, about 70 miles away.
Cost by train for all of us would have been £75 return, that was pre-booking the cheapest ticket.
Cost by 2.5L BMW was about £30 plus no taxis to be paid for to and from the station (NO BUSES).
So for the Train money, I traveled by car, in more comfort and in a quicker time plus had enough cash left over for a slap up feed at a Tex Mex.
Until the gubberment do something about our very expensive and crap public transport system, I'm sticking to my 17 mpg round town car.
What's the *real* per mile cost of running your car? The AA figures would probably put it around £1 per mile. How does the cost compare then?
Be careful what you wish for - there's a simple solution to equalising the cost, and that's by using tolls (or road pricing).
A quick calculation has the running costs for my car at 46p/mile thus that trip would have cost me £64 so just a bit cheaper and I should not have splurged on that Tex Mex. D'oh!
s2art said:
Not really, as you would have had the fixed costs whether or not you made the trip. Basically once you have the car it makes sense to use it, to 'sweat the asset'.
That's true, but like I said, road pricing soon fixes that.There really ought to be cheaper ways for families to travel - some friends were telling us that 3 miles into town on the bus for a family of 4 costs £12 for the rond trip.
Galsia said:
What is their excuse for it?
Because the Treasury needs the money.It's a law of diminishing returns on fuel duty - the more you put it up, the more people drive less and/or buy more efficient cars, the less revenue it generates, so the more it has to go up.
But then Governments, especially the current one, have never really grasped the really complex concepts like that.
Deva Link said:
s2art said:
Not really, as you would have had the fixed costs whether or not you made the trip. Basically once you have the car it makes sense to use it, to 'sweat the asset'.
That's true, but like I said, road pricing soon fixes that.There really ought to be cheaper ways for families to travel - some friends were telling us that 3 miles into town on the bus for a family of 4 costs £12 for the rond trip.
Windy Vortex said:
The AA published this today.
AA calls for investigation into 17% rise in petrol wholesale prices
A 17% rise in European wholesale petrol prices since late January is threatening to push UK average pump prices above the July 2008 record, warns the AA. Britain's largest motoring organisation, with around 15 million members, is calling on the Government to investigate the sudden surge.
Conveniently for the AA's argument, they haven't mentioned that in July 2008, $1 was ~50p. Now, $1 is ~65p.AA calls for investigation into 17% rise in petrol wholesale prices
A 17% rise in European wholesale petrol prices since late January is threatening to push UK average pump prices above the July 2008 record, warns the AA. Britain's largest motoring organisation, with around 15 million members, is calling on the Government to investigate the sudden surge.
At $150/bl in Jul 2008, 1 barrel of oil would have been £75. I imagine that large buyers would have pre-arranged a more competitive price, so they wouldn't actually be paying that much. Let's say, for the sake of argument, $90/bl. (It was that price at the start of 2008, and $1 was ~50p then, too.) So, working on this assumption, 1 barrel of oil was £45.
Today, 1 barrel of oil is $80. (It was about that 6 months ago, and the exchange rate was about the same then too.) So, that's... £49-52, depending on when the bulk of the money was actually forked out. (I've been unable to find any good information on how these transactions actually work.)
Conveniently for MY argument, that's the better part of a 17% increase.
There will presumably be other factors at play, and this is only the sketch of an argument anyway, but my suspicion is (if it isn't obvious) that the AA is just blowing smoke.
ds.Am I on my own not only seeing all the bad side of petrol price increases/smoking bans/immigration etc etc.
I used to drive Lancashire to Hertfodshire and the journey took 4-6 hours depending on traffic. It now takes less than 4 hours as there is less traffic.
Half of the pubs around me have closed but those that have are now better offering either specialist beers or high quality food at lower than restaurant prices. We never have stinging eyes or cigarette stinking clothes when we come home because of the one selfish ba$tard who insists on smoking in the no smoking area.
We don't go to the pub much, friends and relatives go to each others houses where we can socialise better than in the pub where you risked getting glassed on a Friday night by some pi$$head.
We go for walks in the countryside and cycle just for the fun of it and to stay healthy.
I have Indian, Chinese, Thai, Turkish, Iranian and Vietnamese restaurants and takeaways all staffed by people earning a decent wage and probably working legally. They offer great food that even 20 years ago would have been considered exotic.
If I need a plumber or other tradesman, I can get Olaff or Laszlo to give me a quote which doesn't make me feel as if I took a wrong carreer decision to earn a decent wage and they will do the job the day they said they would.
At work there are less of us still doing the same amount of work so we are all pulling together trying to get the job done instead of looking over our shoulders wondering who is getting what perk. We are all glad to have a job!
Petrol has increased in price but I spend less on petrol than I did 5 years ago because my car is more economical and I drive less.
If I want to upgrade my house, I have to find less money to make the upgrade and I'm not likely to get some bu99er gazumping me at the last minute.
We may not be richer but life is better, more fun and of a higher quality.
I used to drive Lancashire to Hertfodshire and the journey took 4-6 hours depending on traffic. It now takes less than 4 hours as there is less traffic.
Half of the pubs around me have closed but those that have are now better offering either specialist beers or high quality food at lower than restaurant prices. We never have stinging eyes or cigarette stinking clothes when we come home because of the one selfish ba$tard who insists on smoking in the no smoking area.
We don't go to the pub much, friends and relatives go to each others houses where we can socialise better than in the pub where you risked getting glassed on a Friday night by some pi$$head.
We go for walks in the countryside and cycle just for the fun of it and to stay healthy.
I have Indian, Chinese, Thai, Turkish, Iranian and Vietnamese restaurants and takeaways all staffed by people earning a decent wage and probably working legally. They offer great food that even 20 years ago would have been considered exotic.
If I need a plumber or other tradesman, I can get Olaff or Laszlo to give me a quote which doesn't make me feel as if I took a wrong carreer decision to earn a decent wage and they will do the job the day they said they would.
At work there are less of us still doing the same amount of work so we are all pulling together trying to get the job done instead of looking over our shoulders wondering who is getting what perk. We are all glad to have a job!
Petrol has increased in price but I spend less on petrol than I did 5 years ago because my car is more economical and I drive less.
If I want to upgrade my house, I have to find less money to make the upgrade and I'm not likely to get some bu99er gazumping me at the last minute.
We may not be richer but life is better, more fun and of a higher quality.
company car with fuel benefit, seemed a good idea a few years back, glad that never gave it up, might well go for a long weekend in scotland, only concern will be finding a non motorway service station, company does not like paying the increased charges there...
one of the cheapest places in europe pre tax and the most expensive place to buy fuel post tax
one of the cheapest places in europe pre tax and the most expensive place to buy fuel post tax
markcoznottz said:
How the f**k do know what they earn?.
I can't speak for all of them but my neighbour does the accounts for 2 of them and she says they pay "decent wages" and the guy who delivers from the Turkish kebab shop was telling me he moved there because pay and conditions were good.I go back 10 years ago and my local kebab shop was staffed by people who were working without permits and only got a pittance.
Are you Charlie Whelan?
Just as long as you regard your heavily legislated and taxed existence as better I suppose it doesn't matter does it?
Eagerbeaver said:
Am I on my own not only seeing all the bad side of petrol price increases/smoking bans/immigration etc etc....
We may not be richer but life is better, more fun and of a higher quality.
So a crippled economy and 8 million economically inactive (in part due to immigration, and high taxation) is fine? Along with the disintegration of the hospitality business, the complete wrecking of any form of physical mobility, and huge swathes of youngsters not learning a (building) trade because the Poles have cornered the market at half the price is a good thing?We may not be richer but life is better, more fun and of a higher quality.
Just as long as you regard your heavily legislated and taxed existence as better I suppose it doesn't matter does it?
Dunk76 said:
So a crippled economy and 8 million economically inactive (in part due to immigration, and high taxation) is fine? Along with the disintegration of the hospitality business, the complete wrecking of any form of physical mobility, and huge swathes of youngsters not learning a (building) trade because the Poles have cornered the market at half the price is a good thing?
Just as long as you regard your heavily legislated and taxed existence as better I suppose it doesn't matter does it?
I only know a few of the "8 million economically inactive" but those I do are inactive through choice. I'm not saying most are - just those I know. There are some of us that are economically stunted but I'd rather be either of these today than 30 years ago.Just as long as you regard your heavily legislated and taxed existence as better I suppose it doesn't matter does it?
The UK "hospitality busuness" has been the butt of jokes around the world with our cr@p food and rubbish hotels for years. It is getting what it deserves and it's only those that give good value that will survive.
"Youngsters not learning a trade" is nothing new, that's how we ended up begging the Poles to come and rescue us in the first place. Buying my new house in 2003, I was held to ransom by the "bricky mafia", then the Poles came doing a quicker better job at 60% of the price. So that was a bad thing?
The world is changing and a lot of people don't like it. For those of us who get off our backsides, willing to contribute rather than just take from society, living within our means not our credit limit, the UK is a better, brighter place with more diverse culture and better facilities.
Don't even get me onto the NHS. I believed the stories about poor dirty hospitals, long waiting lists and poor facilities. In the last 12 months, me, my parents, in laws, and several friends have needed to use a wide range of services from casualty to cancer treatment. Did I find the headline grabbing dirty short staffed hospitals - No. OK, I appreciate that with the cutbacks talked about, this is not likely to last but you can hardly blame the NHS for that.
Anyway, this all started about fuel prices. I'm not happy about having to pay big amounts out for petrol, gas, electricity but try living in some other countries where fuel is in cash terms similar to ours but incomes are much lower.
Eagerbeaver said:
Dunk76 said:
So a crippled economy and 8 million economically inactive (in part due to immigration, and high taxation) is fine? Along with the disintegration of the hospitality business, the complete wrecking of any form of physical mobility, and huge swathes of youngsters not learning a (building) trade because the Poles have cornered the market at half the price is a good thing?
Just as long as you regard your heavily legislated and taxed existence as better I suppose it doesn't matter does it?
I only know a few of the "8 million economically inactive" but those I do are inactive through choice. I'm not saying most are - just those I know. There are some of us that are economically stunted but I'd rather be either of these today than 30 years ago.Just as long as you regard your heavily legislated and taxed existence as better I suppose it doesn't matter does it?
The UK "hospitality busuness" has been the butt of jokes around the world with our cr@p food and rubbish hotels for years. It is getting what it deserves and it's only those that give good value that will survive.
"Youngsters not learning a trade" is nothing new, that's how we ended up begging the Poles to come and rescue us in the first place. Buying my new house in 2003, I was held to ransom by the "bricky mafia", then the Poles came doing a quicker better job at 60% of the price. So that was a bad thing?
The world is changing and a lot of people don't like it. For those of us who get off our backsides, willing to contribute rather than just take from society, living within our means not our credit limit, the UK is a better, brighter place with more diverse culture and better facilities.
Don't even get me onto the NHS. I believed the stories about poor dirty hospitals, long waiting lists and poor facilities. In the last 12 months, me, my parents, in laws, and several friends have needed to use a wide range of services from casualty to cancer treatment. Did I find the headline grabbing dirty short staffed hospitals - No. OK, I appreciate that with the cutbacks talked about, this is not likely to last but you can hardly blame the NHS for that.
Anyway, this all started about fuel prices. I'm not happy about having to pay big amounts out for petrol, gas, electricity but try living in some other countries where fuel is in cash terms similar to ours but incomes are much lower.
Are you a politician?
Flanders. said:
Eagerbeaver said:
Dunk76 said:
So a crippled economy and 8 million economically inactive (in part due to immigration, and high taxation) is fine? Along with the disintegration of the hospitality business, the complete wrecking of any form of physical mobility, and huge swathes of youngsters not learning a (building) trade because the Poles have cornered the market at half the price is a good thing?
Just as long as you regard your heavily legislated and taxed existence as better I suppose it doesn't matter does it?
I only know a few of the "8 million economically inactive" but those I do are inactive through choice. I'm not saying most are - just those I know. There are some of us that are economically stunted but I'd rather be either of these today than 30 years ago.Just as long as you regard your heavily legislated and taxed existence as better I suppose it doesn't matter does it?
The UK "hospitality busuness" has been the butt of jokes around the world with our cr@p food and rubbish hotels for years. It is getting what it deserves and it's only those that give good value that will survive.
"Youngsters not learning a trade" is nothing new, that's how we ended up begging the Poles to come and rescue us in the first place. Buying my new house in 2003, I was held to ransom by the "bricky mafia", then the Poles came doing a quicker better job at 60% of the price. So that was a bad thing?
The world is changing and a lot of people don't like it. For those of us who get off our backsides, willing to contribute rather than just take from society, living within our means not our credit limit, the UK is a better, brighter place with more diverse culture and better facilities.
Don't even get me onto the NHS. I believed the stories about poor dirty hospitals, long waiting lists and poor facilities. In the last 12 months, me, my parents, in laws, and several friends have needed to use a wide range of services from casualty to cancer treatment. Did I find the headline grabbing dirty short staffed hospitals - No. OK, I appreciate that with the cutbacks talked about, this is not likely to last but you can hardly blame the NHS for that.
Anyway, this all started about fuel prices. I'm not happy about having to pay big amounts out for petrol, gas, electricity but try living in some other countries where fuel is in cash terms similar to ours but incomes are much lower.
Are you a politician?
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