Discussion
Tryke3 said:
powerstroke said:
For me I've disliked the EU its rules , petty regulations and set up as long as I've been politicly aware some 35 plus years , winning the referendum was and still joyous, possibly the best political event in my lifetime ,
Haw advance is the dementia, you seem of your rocker ?
MC Bodge said:
Sway said:
And yet over one in ten voters across the country were voting for a party whose door raison d'etre was opposition to our membership of the EU...
9 in 10 didn't, though...Further, when both the Conservatives and Labour were promising a referendum (the only difference being the timing, and the previous Labour administration ignoring their manifesto pledge under similar circumstances) then it's clear (especially once the referendum turnout and vote was measured) that EU membership was something a very large percentage of the electorate were interested in.
I suppose it's easier to blame the party for something you don't like, than the 17.4M.
powerstroke said:
For me I've disliked the EU its rules , petty regulations and set up as long as I've been politicly aware some 35 plus years , winning the referendum was and still joyous, possibly the best political event in my lifetime ,
That says more about you than it does about the European Project. I find your view and your joy more than a little sad.The EU is not them, it is us.
The UK is one of the the big players and has been a large contributor of rules. The standardisation and harmonisation have been a good thing, but people were never going to be fired up and excited by regulations in the power, environmental, science, transport sectors were they? Even human rights were seen as a bad thing....
Sway said:
True. However to ignore that and suggest the referendum was purely down to party squabbles is disingenuous - when those ten percent represent those for whom the EU was the primary motivation for voting choice, it's clear that there was a bell curve covering a significant percentage of the population for whom EU membership was an element of their thinking...
Further, when both the Conservatives and Labour were promising a referendum (the only difference being the timing, and the previous Labour administration ignoring their manifesto pledge under similar circumstances) then it's clear (especially once the referendum turnout and vote was measured) that EU membership was something a very large percentage of the electorate were interested in.
I suppose it's easier to blame the party for something you don't like, than the 17.4M.
I blame the long-standing silly jingoism and British Supremacy ideas that presented us as different to (and better than) our neighbours. Further, when both the Conservatives and Labour were promising a referendum (the only difference being the timing, and the previous Labour administration ignoring their manifesto pledge under similar circumstances) then it's clear (especially once the referendum turnout and vote was measured) that EU membership was something a very large percentage of the electorate were interested in.
I suppose it's easier to blame the party for something you don't like, than the 17.4M.
The 16.8 million that voted the opposite way didn't feel that it was worth leaving the EU for. Perhaps people who did not vote may be more inclined to vote in future.
MC Bodge said:
I blame the long-standing silly jingoism and British Supremacy ideas that presented us as different to (and better than) our neighbours.
The 16.8 million that voted the opposite way didn't feel that it was worth leaving the EU for. Perhaps people who did not vote may be more inclined to vote in future.
Ah, so we're back to leave voters being misguided jingoistic isolationist... The 16.8 million that voted the opposite way didn't feel that it was worth leaving the EU for. Perhaps people who did not vote may be more inclined to vote in future.
Perhaps the 16.8 million (who gave two out of the top three reasons for remaining as being fear of the future) will educate themselves on Target2, and consider where the larger risk lies.
MC Bodge said:
[ ]I blame the long-standing silly jingoism and British Supremacy ideas that presented us as different to (and better than) our neighbours. [/b]
The 16.8 million that voted the opposite way didn't feel that it was worth leaving the EU for. Perhaps people who did not vote may be more inclined to vote in future.
The 16.8 million that voted the opposite way didn't feel that it was worth leaving the EU for. Perhaps people who did not vote may be more inclined to vote in future.
We are different, we aren’t necessarily better. HTH
Sway said:
MC Bodge said:
Sway said:
And yet over one in ten voters across the country were voting for a party whose door raison d'etre was opposition to our membership of the EU...
9 in 10 didn't, though...Further, when both the Conservatives and Labour were promising a referendum (the only difference being the timing, and the previous Labour administration ignoring their manifesto pledge under similar circumstances) then it's clear (especially once the referendum turnout and vote was measured) that EU membership was something a very large percentage of the electorate were interested in.
I suppose it's easier to blame the party for something you don't like, than the 17.4M.
I do wonder when I see coverage of the placard protests of angry youth how many of them quietly didn't bother to vote, but can't now ever admit it.
SpeckledJim said:
It's ultimately not the 17.4m to blame for Remain's defeat. It's the few million strident Remainers who didn't actually vote who are to blame. Idle soldiers, members of the army, but absent from the battlefield.
I do wonder when I see coverage of the placard protests of angry youth how many of them quietly didn't bother to vote, but can't now ever admit it.
It's not as if the referendum was held in a darkened room somewhere on Bodmin Moor. Those who didn't vote just didn't care whether we stayed or left. to say anything else after the vote is palpable nonsense.I do wonder when I see coverage of the placard protests of angry youth how many of them quietly didn't bother to vote, but can't now ever admit it.
MC Bodge said:
SpeckledJim said:
I do wonder when I see coverage of the placard protests of angry youth how many of them quietly didn't bother to vote, but can't now ever admit it.
Very, very few I would imagine. Politically active people were likely to vote!There's no way as many voted as are now distraught and terrified and hoarding beans and requiring counselling, etc, otherwise they'd have won.
We know that if the 18-35 had turned out in the same proportions as the over 50's then the result would likely have been different.
I just find it entertaining to think about how many must be publicly decrying all this, while staying firmly schtum to their right-on mates about actually sitting in their pants watching Hollyoaks when they should have popped out to vote!
Ean218 said:
SpeckledJim said:
It's ultimately not the 17.4m to blame for Remain's defeat. It's the few million strident Remainers who didn't actually vote who are to blame. Idle soldiers, members of the army, but absent from the battlefield.
I do wonder when I see coverage of the placard protests of angry youth how many of them quietly didn't bother to vote, but can't now ever admit it.
It's not as if the referendum was held in a darkened room somewhere on Bodmin Moor. Those who didn't vote just didn't care whether we stayed or left. to say anything else after the vote is palpable nonsense.I do wonder when I see coverage of the placard protests of angry youth how many of them quietly didn't bother to vote, but can't now ever admit it.
Multiply that complacency by 2m people and a victory becomes a defeat.
Salutatory lesson why you should never get in cohorts with the DUP.
The DUP are poisonous like opiods, on one hand they can provide you with immediate relief, but they will ultimately f
k you up.
"Sammy Wilson MP has warned Theresa May that the DUP doesn't trust her judgment and that it if she crosses its red line in her efforts to secure a Brexit deal "there'll be consequences".
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-i...
The DUP are poisonous like opiods, on one hand they can provide you with immediate relief, but they will ultimately f
k you up."Sammy Wilson MP has warned Theresa May that the DUP doesn't trust her judgment and that it if she crosses its red line in her efforts to secure a Brexit deal "there'll be consequences".
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-i...
Edited by JuniorD on Friday 12th October 12:54
SpeckledJim said:
I think some non-voters care very much, they just didn't put 2 and 2 together and realise that their vote would actually, definitely, count.
Multiply that complacency by 2m people and a victory becomes a defeat.
No doubt there were also some people who had decided that, with the status quo favouring remain, supported by the government-subsidised ‘project fear’, there was no point voting for ‘leave’!Multiply that complacency by 2m people and a victory becomes a defeat.
Not sure if there were 2m of them though!
Is it beyond the realms of possibility that the English voting to leave the EU, will end up with them leaving the United Kingdom too? Northern Ireland and Scotland wanted to stay in the EU - and that could well happen now, with only England leaving the EU. Or is that just a chain of events that realistically, will never happen?
soupdragon1 said:
Is it beyond the realms of possibility that the English voting to leave the EU, will end up with them leaving the United Kingdom too? Northern Ireland and Scotland wanted to stay in the EU - and that could well happen now, with only England leaving the EU. Or is that just a chain of events that realistically, will never happen?
Yes.Edited by sidicks on Friday 12th October 11:16
MC Bodge said:
I don't belive that many people were that bothered about leaving the EU prior to the referendum build up.
It certainly wasn't a topic of conversation, even for my "reactionary, little England, man in the street, state of the nation swingometer" Father in Law.
Muslims and the islamification of the UK were more his concern than Eastern Europeans, (along with disliking Labour and liking the Royals/Diana, but not Price Charles). Living as he does in an affluent Cheshire village.
The referendum allowed him to (Daily) Express himself and "sovereignty" appealed to him and his love of Royalty, along with fears of "immigrants" (ie. muslims).
He told me that for him it was about "gut feel", not facts.
I think these comments also highlight your own prejudices, I mean how dare anyone have an opinion contrary to yours?It certainly wasn't a topic of conversation, even for my "reactionary, little England, man in the street, state of the nation swingometer" Father in Law.
Muslims and the islamification of the UK were more his concern than Eastern Europeans, (along with disliking Labour and liking the Royals/Diana, but not Price Charles). Living as he does in an affluent Cheshire village.
The referendum allowed him to (Daily) Express himself and "sovereignty" appealed to him and his love of Royalty, along with fears of "immigrants" (ie. muslims).
He told me that for him it was about "gut feel", not facts.
Oilchange said:
MC Bodge said:
I don't belive that many people were that bothered about leaving the EU prior to the referendum build up.
It certainly wasn't a topic of conversation, even for my "reactionary, little England, man in the street, state of the nation swingometer" Father in Law.
Muslims and the islamification of the UK were more his concern than Eastern Europeans, (along with disliking Labour and liking the Royals/Diana, but not Price Charles). Living as he does in an affluent Cheshire village.
The referendum allowed him to (Daily) Express himself and "sovereignty" appealed to him and his love of Royalty, along with fears of "immigrants" (ie. muslims).
He told me that for him it was about "gut feel", not facts.
I think these comments also highlight your own prejudices, I mean how dare anyone have an opinion contrary to yours?It certainly wasn't a topic of conversation, even for my "reactionary, little England, man in the street, state of the nation swingometer" Father in Law.
Muslims and the islamification of the UK were more his concern than Eastern Europeans, (along with disliking Labour and liking the Royals/Diana, but not Price Charles). Living as he does in an affluent Cheshire village.
The referendum allowed him to (Daily) Express himself and "sovereignty" appealed to him and his love of Royalty, along with fears of "immigrants" (ie. muslims).
He told me that for him it was about "gut feel", not facts.
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