Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8
Discussion
Alpacaman said:
Perhaps you should read this first which details how rubbish the SNP claims are=
https://chokkablog.blogspot.com/2019/12/the-snp-li...
Also Burger I can see you seem to worship Nicola and can't understand why anyone wouldn't, but to many of us she is a terrible single issue politician. Like you, she doesn't seem able to understand, or accept, thatmany a significant and consistent majority of people don't agree with her or believe she is right. She rarely faces any difficult questions, and when she does she struggles to come up with any reasonable answers, mainly because there are no sensible answers when it comes to independence. To those of us in Scotland, who have to put up with her on our screens far too regularly, she comes across very very badly, and we can see she is failing this country.
FTFY. https://chokkablog.blogspot.com/2019/12/the-snp-li...
Also Burger I can see you seem to worship Nicola and can't understand why anyone wouldn't, but to many of us she is a terrible single issue politician. Like you, she doesn't seem able to understand, or accept, that
hidetheelephants said:
Edinburger said:
You are becoming really boring.
The exact figures of Scottish income tax take and expenditure do not exist.
You say "the figures are known to the penny" followed by "carry a degree of estimate, but the estimates are accepted as 'accurate enough'"?
Dear oh dear.
Reading comprehension? "Degree of estimate" clearly refers to the source not the figures.The exact figures of Scottish income tax take and expenditure do not exist.
You say "the figures are known to the penny" followed by "carry a degree of estimate, but the estimates are accepted as 'accurate enough'"?
Dear oh dear.
amusingduck said:
I'd totally give Edinburger a pass on his shonky logic if he said the same thing pre-ref.
But you just know they were good enough for him back then, and I can imagine the kind of response you'd get if you challenged the governments figures at the time
Anyone can easily Google facts and figures which show that Scotland's balance book is in the black or is in the red.But you just know they were good enough for him back then, and I can imagine the kind of response you'd get if you challenged the governments figures at the time
simoid said:
Edinburger said:
I didn't lie. 
What did you do then? You told us “the UK is sinking fast” then rhymed off a list of “facts”, of which the first two I checked were bulls
t. Others are irrelevant to your claim, such as real wage growth slowing. And you won’t reveal where you read the stats because you made them up, or misunderstood catastrophically.Employment rates are down. They’re actually at their highest ever level
FTSE 250 is down since the EU referendum. It was about 16000 in June 2016 and is now above 20000 ETA - just short of its highest ever level too!
Edited by simoid on Monday 9th December 17:54
"The number of Scots in work fell by 43,000, to 2,643,000"
Scotland's employment falls faster and its unemployment rises faster than any other part of UK
As for the FTSE comment, markets fluctuate and I could bore you to death with facts and figures on that but it's not as plain as you seem to think.
Alpacaman said:
Edinburger said:
simoid said:
Edinburger said:
I think people discredit the figures because they're just not true. The exact figures of income tax take and expenditure do not exist.
But they’re good enough for the SNP to base their case for an independent Scotland on them...
I’m sure you recall their ridiculous claim that Scotland contributes more to the UK exchequer in taxes than is spent.
https://chokkablog.blogspot.com/2019/12/the-snp-li...
Also Burger I can see you seem to worship Nicola and can't understand why anyone wouldn't, but to many of us she is a terrible single issue politician. Like you, she doesn't seem able to understand, or accept, that many people don't agree with her or believe she is right. She rarely faces any difficult questions, and when she does she struggles to come up with any reasonable answers, mainly because there are no sensible answers when it comes to independence. To those of us in Scotland, who have to put up with her on our screens far too regularly, she comes across very very badly, and we can see she is failing this country.
Evercross said:
Edinburger said:
Evercross said:
Edinburger said:
I think people discredit the figures because they're just not true.
The figures are accurate - it is the interpretation of them that is subject to condition (see below).Edinburger said:
The exact figures of income tax take and expenditure do not exist.
Nationalist lie. The figures are known to the penny - it is just the attribution of source that has to carry a degree of estimate, but the estimates are accepted as 'accurate enough' within government. It is just when the same government of Nationalists put on their grievance hat that they go all two-faced and start casting doubt on them or cherry picking from them.But once again - straight out of the Nationalist playbook of lies and propaganda. We should start calling you Mr. Murrell (or is that b
h Sturgeon?!)The exact figures of Scottish income tax take and expenditure do not exist.
You say "the figures are known to the penny" followed by "carry a degree of estimate, but the estimates are accepted as 'accurate enough'"?
Dear oh dear.
Edited by Evercross on Monday 9th December 19:59
technodup said:
Alpacaman said:
Perhaps you should read this first which details how rubbish the SNP claims are=
https://chokkablog.blogspot.com/2019/12/the-snp-li...
Also Burger I can see you seem to worship Nicola and can't understand why anyone wouldn't, but to many of us she is a terrible single issue politician. Like you, she doesn't seem able to understand, or accept, thatmany a significant and consistent majority of people don't agree with her or believe she is right. She rarely faces any difficult questions, and when she does she struggles to come up with any reasonable answers, mainly because there are no sensible answers when it comes to independence. To those of us in Scotland, who have to put up with her on our screens far too regularly, she comes across very very badly, and we can see she is failing this country.
FTFY. https://chokkablog.blogspot.com/2019/12/the-snp-li...
Also Burger I can see you seem to worship Nicola and can't understand why anyone wouldn't, but to many of us she is a terrible single issue politician. Like you, she doesn't seem able to understand, or accept, that
hidetheelephants said:
technodup said:
Edinburger said:
She may very well be. Who else has the charisma and confidence?
Sorry, what?
<snip>Is Johnson the best to Conservatives have got? Corbyn? Swinson? Jeez, clearly all the good people avoid politics.
As a nation we are being let down badly.
Edinburger said:
For the avoidance of doubt: your definition of a troll is obviously someone who doesn't back down when you speak up.
Nope - my definition of a troll is someone who repeats provocative statements in the face of unequivocal evidence to the contrary, potentially with the aim of provoking a reaction or continuing to spread misinformation. Someone who tells untruths about themselves and then ties themselves in knots over the lies they have told when they contradict each other.Edinburger said:
You have very high self-orientation.
Irony overload.Edinburger said:
If you think I'm a troll then report me. If not, shut up. You'll know the process for reporting people - you reported me before under your former PH profile and you;re probably angry the mods didn't agree with you.
If the speculation above was true then the account I am posting from would/could not exist, so it is about time you stopped making this false assertion (see provocative statements in the face of unequivocal evidence, above).Plus, why would we want you banned, because your presence is a shining light to our fellow English, Welsh, Irish and international PH contingent of what a corrosive and untrustworthy bunch Scottish Nationalists are - guiling by presenting themselves as a voice of reason but failing when put under the minutest degree of scrutiny, and inescapably motivated by the notions of separatism and xenophobia. You do not 'speak for Scotland'.
Edited by Evercross on Tuesday 10th December 06:52
Edinburger said:
Really?
"The number of Scots in work fell by 43,000, to 2,643,000"
Scotland's employment falls faster and its unemployment rises faster than any other part of UK
As for the FTSE comment, markets fluctuate and I could bore you to death with facts and figures on that but it's not as plain as you seem to think.
You really need to say you were wrong regarding the FTSE comment - most other stuff can be debated (say what is impact of moving Trident etc). The FTSE 250 level is just a clear fact. From the chart posted before it was maybe a month or three after Brexit it was lower, and now is around 20% higher. So unless the FT report was posted back in 2016 it cannot have been correct. So either you remembered wrong or the person lied who wrote it. And what does ‘it’s not as plain as you think’ mean? It’s a fixed value with a clear history and current value. Unless you mean it’s lower than predictions say it would have been - in which case you can argue it, but it was not what was posted. "The number of Scots in work fell by 43,000, to 2,643,000"
Scotland's employment falls faster and its unemployment rises faster than any other part of UK
As for the FTSE comment, markets fluctuate and I could bore you to death with facts and figures on that but it's not as plain as you seem to think.
The unemployment figure to refute yours from the previous poster was from the UK level - so depends which version you use there. However, if we cannot trust UK/Scotland breakdowns of budgets etc then can we trust the same for Scotland, or are those also estimates (which presumably cannot be trusted?).
I get you saying in the short-medium term Scotland would struggle, but over time the job market would change if the country adapts to create the market we want here (so current jobs/deficits would not be the same as now). That will take time and probably be painful. I’d also wonder how much we could change as part of the EU (for example Ireland’s recent success is helping companies avoid taxes in other countries - that loophole is being closed up in the EU so would not be an option for Scotland as part of EU). But the selective picking of facts is why many don’t trust independence. Tell the truth - it will take a lot of time, a lot of pain, but in the long term we think it is worth it in the long term. Not that it will happen quickly, we can get the world, it will cost just a few billion etc. Brexit shows that is nonsense if nothing else.
Edinburger said:
Really?
"The number of Scots in work fell by 43,000, to 2,643,000"
Scotland's employment falls faster and its unemployment rises faster than any other part of UK
As for the FTSE comment, markets fluctuate and I could bore you to death with facts and figures on that but it's not as plain as you seem to think.
You appear to be trying to sneak in a few links about Scottish unemployment in support of your claim that 'the UK is sinking fast'. Which is what you said, remember? Do you think people won't click back a few pages to check what you said? "The number of Scots in work fell by 43,000, to 2,643,000"
Scotland's employment falls faster and its unemployment rises faster than any other part of UK
As for the FTSE comment, markets fluctuate and I could bore you to death with facts and figures on that but it's not as plain as you seem to think.
How's that work?
Scotland is such a drag anchor as to sink the whole UK? Impressive Edinburger said:
technodup said:
Edinburger said:
She may very well be. Who else has the charisma and confidence?
Sorry, what?Have you seen the other party leaders?
He's got a relaxed style. Some would say too relaxed but I prefer that to the sense of humour bypass that is the magic grandpa, or the head girl right-on-ness of Swinson or the tedious repetition that comes out of you know who. I certainly can't imagine any of them cutting the mustard in a room of world leaders, I imagine Sturgeon's small talk is somewhat more dry than Boris'.
Edinburger said:
simoid said:
Edinburger said:
I didn't lie.
What did you do then? You told us “the UK is sinking fast” then rhymed off a list of “facts”, of which the first two I checked were bullst. Others are irrelevant to your claim, such as real wage growth slowing. And you won’t reveal where you read the stats because you made them up, or misunderstood catastrophically.Employment rates are down. They’re actually at their highest ever level
FTSE 250 is down since the EU referendum. It was about 16000 in June 2016 and is now above 20000 ETA - just short of its highest ever level too!
Edited by simoid on Monday 9th December 17:54
"The number of Scots in work fell by 43,000, to 2,643,000"
Scotland's employment falls faster and its unemployment rises faster than any other part of UK
As for the FTSE comment, markets fluctuate and I could bore you to death with facts and figures on that but it's not as plain as you seem to think.
FTSE is 25% higher than the EU referendum. How the f
k is that anything other than clear cut 
You’re ridiculous. Totally ridiculous.
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