Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 5
Discussion
Big Rod said:
rovermorris999 said:
OpulentBob said:
I want a Yes vote more and more each day.
Me too.
tes disappear up their own aholes. And point and laugh at them from the borderandymadmak said:
Scotland for Business (i.e., Yesser) bod on R4 this morning claiming that Scottish businesses are charged to use UK embassies abroad for trade services/facilities etc while businesses from the rest of the UK are not.
A total bare faced lie. BBC has just confirmed as such.
(Faor the record, as an English business I can confirm that we are also charged for using embassy services, and the fees we are charged are the same as those levied on Scottish businesses.)
It seems the YES camp just make things up as they go along, and hope that those gullible enough will just soak it up..
Heard this too - they made a big thing about it, however R4 then received a call/communication from the UK embassy in Rome stating that this is utterly incorrect they checked this out with the UK embassy and it has been verified as an absolute lie. A total bare faced lie. BBC has just confirmed as such.
(Faor the record, as an English business I can confirm that we are also charged for using embassy services, and the fees we are charged are the same as those levied on Scottish businesses.)
It seems the YES camp just make things up as they go along, and hope that those gullible enough will just soak it up..
Like to hear from Burger on this one please - actually if the Scottish businesses believe this is the case then who has been telling them these lies? In fact I wonder how many of the 200 who signed have actually have experienced these charges (probably few if any) then somehow simply assume oh s
t Scotland pay for this England and rUK don't fecking Torys. Its lies like this which need to be aired and made clear they are utter lies and then those who made the claim questioned on the Radio/TV.
Hopefully R4 bring back that chap to question this point a point which he made so much about. It would be very good if he did come back on and say fair play didn't realise that we were wrong.
andymadmak said:
Scotland for Business (i.e., Yesser) bod on R4 this morning claiming that Scottish businesses are charged to use UK embassies abroad for trade services/facilities etc while businesses from the rest of the UK are not.
A total bare faced lie. BBC has just confirmed as such.
(Faor the record, as an English business I can confirm that we are also charged for using embassy services, and the fees we are charged are the same as those levied on Scottish businesses.)
It seems the YES camp just make things up as they go along, and hope that those gullible enough will just soak it up..
I caught this on my way in to work this morning. It should have come with a health warning as I laughing so much.A total bare faced lie. BBC has just confirmed as such.
(Faor the record, as an English business I can confirm that we are also charged for using embassy services, and the fees we are charged are the same as those levied on Scottish businesses.)
It seems the YES camp just make things up as they go along, and hope that those gullible enough will just soak it up..
The Scotland for business idiot was drowning from the get go, it was obvious that Evan Davis didn’t believe a word he was saying and when the fool tried to imply an conspiracy against Scottish business with the wonderful line “now why do you think that is?” it was like listening to an episode of dead ringers.
I also love the fact he went on about when he needs to pay air duty twice as he has to take two flights to get to berlin, where someone flying from London only has to pay once. The reason he has to take two flights is because there isn’t enough demand for the route from his airport. Not a very astute business man if he doesn’t understand the concept of supply and demand.
All todays interview proved is that even the mouth pieces for the Yes campaign are thick, if that is the best they can get to represent them, I'd hate to meet the rest…
barryrs said:
I think i would quite like to see DC debate with Salmond now.
I know Salmond would turn it into Tory bashing exercise but a strong showing from DC and a rabid Salmond set to explode with anti Tory rhetoric would out his true colours.
I'd like to see Galloway have a go. Can't stand the guy's views in general but did enjoy his speech somebody posted on here*, plus have heard him take people apart several times on various other topics. Couldn't help but form a grudging respect for him.I know Salmond would turn it into Tory bashing exercise but a strong showing from DC and a rabid Salmond set to explode with anti Tory rhetoric would out his true colours.
Anglade said:
Is it just me or does Salmond come across as a primary school child. The way he (yet again) avoided the reporters question on currency is very reminiscent of arguments I had in the school yard as a child.
This is what this debate has been about all along - Salmond fishing for sound bytes - and unfortunately Darling fell into this trap during the second debate.
At no point has it been stated that iScotland can't use the pound unilaterally. That's all Darling reiterated - yet Salmond has jumped all over it as if its an admission that a currency union is a certainty. When the sky reporter pointed this out to Salmond - he just mocked him like an 8 year old would. The only thing missing was him saying "nah, na, na-naaah, naaaah" and pulling tongues at the reporter.
McWigglebum4th said:
Give me a decent job and decent house south of the border i'd happily vote YES and laugh my tits off as the bravehearts end up broke
I'm fortunate enough that I WFH so can live pretty much anywhere with a half decent broadband connection but my family aren't keen on moving.If it was up to me we'd be off the minute a result in favour of independence was announced.
Moonhawk said:
At no point has it been stated that iScotland can't use the pound unilaterally. That's all Darling reiterated - yet Salmond has jumped all over it as if its an admission that a currency union is a certainty. When the sky reporter pointed this out to Salmond - he just mocked him like an 8 year old would. The only thing missing was him saying "nah, na, na-naaah, naaaah" and pulling tongues at the reporter.
I'd love to find a clip of it but I can't, but this reminds me of the episode of The Simpsons when Lisa becomes a vegetarian and the other kids are teasing her:Edit: This will have to do.
Edited by Wrathalanche on Thursday 28th August 09:53
budgie smuggler said:
I'd like to see Galloway have a go. Can't stand the guy's views in general but did enjoy his speech somebody posted on here*, plus have heard him take people apart several times on various other topics. Couldn't help but form a grudging respect for him.
It is well known that Galloway has in fact secretly been a member of the Tory party for 30 years.MintyChris said:
Axionknight said:
Calvib! Welcome back! We've found out PLENTY about the lying nats and their shameful tactics whilst you have been gone, I'm surprised you weren't around to defend the liars......
Yes but they are fairer, more democratic lies if told by a Nationalist.Taking politics & the misguided understanding of what can & cannot be achieved under a Scottish government out of the equation, I have noticed something rather strange.
Every Car, House or Jacket with a YES sticker on it either belongs to someone who forgot they left student life some time ago or a frumpy oldie who are never happy at anything and have nothing to lose as they will be well gone by the time the rest of us get brought to our knees.
Every Car, House or Jacket with a YES sticker on it either belongs to someone who forgot they left student life some time ago or a frumpy oldie who are never happy at anything and have nothing to lose as they will be well gone by the time the rest of us get brought to our knees.
MintyChris said:
Axionknight said:
Calvib! Welcome back! We've found out PLENTY about the lying nats and their shameful tactics whilst you have been gone, I'm surprised you weren't around to defend the liars......
Yes but they are fairer, more democratic lies if told by a Nationalist.The more I think about it, the more I'm certain the SNP are NOT suitable to run a Government. After the no result we should be unwinding devolution, pulling power away from these cretinous liars. This cannot happen again.
jonny996 said:
Taking politics & the misguided understanding of what can & cannot be achieved under a Scottish government out of the equation, I have noticed something rather strange.
Every Car, House or Jacket with a YES sticker on it either belongs to someone who forgot they left student life some time ago or a frumpy oldie who are never happy at anything and have nothing to lose as they will be well gone by the time the rest of us get brought to our knees.
You've hit on something. I notive a large number of Kias, old Nissans, clapped out Toyotas and other such brands with Yes stickers (usually about 3 in the front screen, two on the back and often a Saltire because apparantly a Saltire signifies independence..... Very few european cars...Every Car, House or Jacket with a YES sticker on it either belongs to someone who forgot they left student life some time ago or a frumpy oldie who are never happy at anything and have nothing to lose as they will be well gone by the time the rest of us get brought to our knees.
Maybe we should start a new thread where we post what type of cars have Yes and No stickers...could be a new angle of looking at it!
How have the SNP calculated their claim to existing UK MoD defence assets, eg 12 x Typhoons, 6 x C130Js, 2 x Frigates, 4 x MCMVs etc..... I find their approach to the defence issue truly barking to be honest, for the first decade it is solely reliant on a suitable number of appropriate ranks from all three services with experience in each branch (logs, engineering etc) as required leaving the UK MoD (serving and civvies) to join the SDF before, it would appear, they approach the Commonwealth to fill the gaps....
Furthermore, the personnel figures dont appear to add up, their aspirational figures for regulars is about 10,000 within the first term of Parliament. Using a civvy:serving ratio of 2:1 (which is very lean) they have an SDF of approx 30,000 personnel. Assuming an avg salary across the board is £30k per annum (again quite lean), thats £1bn per annum of the total £2.5Bn defence budget (before we mention pensions etc) leaving £1.5Bn per annum for equipment acquisition and support, infrastructure etc etc
If there is no currency union, the Scots reject their debt liabilities, how can they still claim those aforementioned assets? Surely if they dont accept the debt liabilities they dont get the fruits of the UK? If there is a currency union, would they have a greater right of claim?
Lastly!, the SNP appear to be claiming RAF Leuchars and Lossiemouth for the SDF, why would these not remain as UK Sovereign territory similar to RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus? what right odes the independant Scotalnd have to claim a UK asset as their own?
Furthermore, the personnel figures dont appear to add up, their aspirational figures for regulars is about 10,000 within the first term of Parliament. Using a civvy:serving ratio of 2:1 (which is very lean) they have an SDF of approx 30,000 personnel. Assuming an avg salary across the board is £30k per annum (again quite lean), thats £1bn per annum of the total £2.5Bn defence budget (before we mention pensions etc) leaving £1.5Bn per annum for equipment acquisition and support, infrastructure etc etc
If there is no currency union, the Scots reject their debt liabilities, how can they still claim those aforementioned assets? Surely if they dont accept the debt liabilities they dont get the fruits of the UK? If there is a currency union, would they have a greater right of claim?
Lastly!, the SNP appear to be claiming RAF Leuchars and Lossiemouth for the SDF, why would these not remain as UK Sovereign territory similar to RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus? what right odes the independant Scotalnd have to claim a UK asset as their own?
pablo said:
what right odes the independant Scotalnd have to claim a UK asset as their own?
Absolutely none. ALL assets (and liabilities) will have to be split by negotiation. The YES campaign are just setting out a claim/wishlist that they think will appeal to voters. They could claim that an iScotland will have 100% of the oil, 100% of the gas, 100% of any shale gas, 100% of the UK income tax receipts, 0% of the debt, 0% of any pension liabilities, unicorns for everyone etc - until something has been negotiated with and agreed to by the rUK then it remains just a claim/wishlist. From Facebook
1. We would walk away from a share of UK debt
2. We would also walk away from a share of UK assets
3. We would start as an independent country with no army, air force, navy, no embassies, no central bank and most importantly no credit history to speak of
4. We would have to borrow money to pay for everything in step.3
5. We would have to borrow money at exorbitant interest rates as we would be seen as high risk by the international markets. We would be seen as a pariah state
6. We would need to but cash reserves to try and cover any hit we would take from a recession. After all, who is going to bail us out? Of course, i forgot, we would have no central bank!!!
7. We would pay higher interest ourselves for any money we personally borrow
8. We would pay higher income taxes to generate more cash for the Scottish government
9. We would pay for a higher cost of living as VAT goes through the roof
10. We would still have no control over our currency as it would still be administered by a foreign country
11. We would eventually be using the Euro. That is Salmond's real Plan A
1. We would walk away from a share of UK debt
2. We would also walk away from a share of UK assets
3. We would start as an independent country with no army, air force, navy, no embassies, no central bank and most importantly no credit history to speak of
4. We would have to borrow money to pay for everything in step.3
5. We would have to borrow money at exorbitant interest rates as we would be seen as high risk by the international markets. We would be seen as a pariah state
6. We would need to but cash reserves to try and cover any hit we would take from a recession. After all, who is going to bail us out? Of course, i forgot, we would have no central bank!!!
7. We would pay higher interest ourselves for any money we personally borrow
8. We would pay higher income taxes to generate more cash for the Scottish government
9. We would pay for a higher cost of living as VAT goes through the roof
10. We would still have no control over our currency as it would still be administered by a foreign country
11. We would eventually be using the Euro. That is Salmond's real Plan A
ralphrj said:
pablo said:
what right odes the independant Scotalnd have to claim a UK asset as their own?
Absolutely none. ALL assets (and liabilities) will have to be split by negotiation. The YES campaign are just setting out a claim/wishlist that they think will appeal to voters. They could claim that an iScotland will have 100% of the oil, 100% of the gas, 100% of any shale gas, 100% of the UK income tax receipts, 0% of the debt, 0% of any pension liabilities, unicorns for everyone etc - until something has been negotiated with and agreed to by the rUK then it remains just a claim/wishlist. TEKNOPUG said:
What's the figure of supposed iScot rUK debt post independence? Is it even big enough for rUK to be concerned about?
The treasury have already pledged to honor the full UK debt should Scotland refuse to accept its share as Salmonds stance was starting to spook investors and have repayment cost implications for us even before the referendum.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25707218
Last report i read suggested that if the rUK had to take on Scotland's share current growth would offset it in just a couple of years.
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