Discussion
Grumfutock said:
Really? Who attacked in 1948? Remind me how many nations were involved? Now was that in 48? When was the history of that one written? Hmmmmmmm 
What's this in reference to? Who attacked when? The Israeli ethnic cleansing began in '47. How many times! When was the history written? THE HISTORY IS STILL BEING WRITTEN. We cannot, for example, write the full history of Deir Yassin until the Israeli Government opens the archive.
Leader of Hezbollah, has some strong words about the attack in Paris. The leader of the Lebanese Hezbollah group says Islamic extremists have insulted Islam and the Prophet Muhammad more than those who published satirical cartoons mocking the religion.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/sheikh-hassan-na...
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/sheikh-hassan-na...
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Leader of Hezbollah, has some strong words about the attack in Paris. The leader of the Lebanese Hezbollah group says Islamic extremists have insulted Islam and the Prophet Muhammad more than those who published satirical cartoons mocking the religion.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/sheikh-hassan-na...
I always said that fraternisation with the YPG (which some Arabists are suggesting has happened) would lead to the subversion of Hezbollah! They'll turn into radical feminists next! http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/sheikh-hassan-na...
Someone said that Hamas mirrored Hezbollah in condemning the Paris murders. But I've not looked at the ToI yet.
Meanwhile, the pushback in Kobane continues:
Here it is, in the Jerusalem Post http://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Hamas-condemns-...
Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Saturday 10th January 19:33
TheRealFingers99 said:
Grumfutock said:
Really? Who attacked in 1948? Remind me how many nations were involved? Now was that in 48? When was the history of that one written? Hmmmmmmm
What's this in reference to? Who attacked when? The Israeli ethnic cleansing began in '47. How many times! When was the history written? THE HISTORY IS STILL BEING WRITTEN. We cannot, for example, write the full history of Deir Yassin until the Israeli Government opens the archive.
Oh and here is a small clue as to how history works, it is written at the time! So for the naked aggressive attack by the arabs in 48, guess when that was written? 1948! Dear god you are either one massive wind up merchant or so in denial it is unbelievable.
Grumfutock said:
I rest my case! I ask about 48, you refer to 47!
Oh and here is a small clue as to how history works, it is written at the time! So for the naked aggressive attack by the arabs in 48, guess when that was written? 1948! Dear god you are either one massive wind up merchant or so in denial it is unbelievable.
I refer to '47 because it's more pertinent to the ethnic cleansing, which, clearly, evidently and categorically began way before the week after the declaration of the state of Israel! All else is nonsense! Oh and here is a small clue as to how history works, it is written at the time! So for the naked aggressive attack by the arabs in 48, guess when that was written? 1948! Dear god you are either one massive wind up merchant or so in denial it is unbelievable.
Let's take your statement about "when" history is written. Deir Yassin. A set of events happened. That constitutes an event, the past. At the time (or shortly afterwards) we had newspaper reports, a handful of eye witness accounts. A history was written. Researchers uncovered other witnesses. History was written again. And so on. When the Israelis eventually release the archives a more definitive history can finally be written. Why, pray tell, are the Israelis so reluctant to release them? My guess is that they're afraid that their history may be re-written!
But the attempt to define history (the study of the event) as the event itself is obviously both foolish and simple minded.
TheRealFingers99 said:
Grumfutock said:
I rest my case! I ask about 48, you refer to 47!
Oh and here is a small clue as to how history works, it is written at the time! So for the naked aggressive attack by the arabs in 48, guess when that was written? 1948! Dear god you are either one massive wind up merchant or so in denial it is unbelievable.
I refer to '47 because it's more pertinent to the ethnic cleansing, which, clearly, evidently and categorically began way before the week after the declaration of the state of Israel! All else is nonsense! Oh and here is a small clue as to how history works, it is written at the time! So for the naked aggressive attack by the arabs in 48, guess when that was written? 1948! Dear god you are either one massive wind up merchant or so in denial it is unbelievable.
Let's take your statement about "when" history is written. Deir Yassin. A set of events happened. That constitutes an event, the past. At the time (or shortly afterwards) we had newspaper reports, a handful of eye witness accounts. A history was written. Researchers uncovered other witnesses. History was written again. And so on. When the Israelis eventually release the archives a more definitive history can finally be written. Why, pray tell, are the Israelis so reluctant to release them? My guess is that they're afraid that their history may be re-written!
But the attempt to define history (the study of the event) as the event itself is obviously both foolish and simple minded.
Grumfutock said:
Sorry but what Frankie wrote suns up what I have said for months.
1. Your have a subversive agenda.
2. You have and believe in a revisionist version of history.
3. The Arabs can and have done no wrong, ever and can do no wrong in your opinion, PERIOD!
4. The complete opposite is true of Israel. In your version everything is their fault, PERIOD!
5. Israel must give everything up and the Arab must give up nothing.
You are a fantasist!
1. Your have a subversive agenda.
2. You have and believe in a revisionist version of history.
3. The Arabs can and have done no wrong, ever and can do no wrong in your opinion, PERIOD!
4. The complete opposite is true of Israel. In your version everything is their fault, PERIOD!
5. Israel must give everything up and the Arab must give up nothing.
You are a fantasist!
Grumfutock said:
All very clever but guess what, I wasn't talking about 47 or ethnic cleansing now was I! Others have seen you for what you are, so twist away my little adversary but you are and will remain as described below:
Then, Grumfutuck, maybe you can tell us what you were talking about? It gets difficult to work out exactly what you're chuntering on about. Grumfutock said:
Sorry but what Frankie wrote suns up what I have said for months.
1. Your have a subversive agenda.
2. You have and believe in a revisionist version of history.
3. The Arabs can and have done no wrong, ever and can do no wrong in your opinion, PERIOD!
4. The complete opposite is true of Israel. In your version everything is their fault, PERIOD!
5. Israel must give everything up and the Arab must give up nothing.
You are a fantasist!
1. Your have a subversive agenda.
2. You have and believe in a revisionist version of history.
3. The Arabs can and have done no wrong, ever and can do no wrong in your opinion, PERIOD!
4. The complete opposite is true of Israel. In your version everything is their fault, PERIOD!
5. Israel must give everything up and the Arab must give up nothing.
You are a fantasist!
I note no response to Deir Yassin.
No response to my critique of "your" somewhat Nietzschian view of "history".
No clarification of what my "subversive" agenda might be.
Come on, even the Kobane Rabbit has more fight than you!
franki68 said:
(rape...yeah sure see PLO leaders comments about how they spread that myth)anyway ignoring all the terrorist attacks on jewish settlements like safed in early 19th century where the almost the entire jewish population was wiped out.
realfingers99 said :
The rape stuff is documented both in Ben Gurion's War Diaries and in Pappe. One incident involves the gang rape of a 12 year old who was subsequently murdered. IIRC, this was IDF, not one of the Zionist terror gangs.
interesting that you quote ben gurion and pappe,a useful tool to show you what pappe is.
ben gurion wrote to his son amos 5/10/37
'we do not wish to ,we do not need to expel the arabs and take their place.All our aspirations are built upon the assumption -proven throughout all our activity in the land -that there is enough room in the country for ourselves and arabs'
this is I believe pappe's version of that text
'we must expel arabs and take their places .....The Arabs will have to go, but one needs an opportune moment for making it happen, such as a war.
so in the first part he changes 'we do not need to expel ' to 'we must expel' ,and the second part is a total fabrication,there is no documented evidence of this anywhere ,nor any record of ben gurion saying this.
(rape...yeah sure see PLO leaders comments about how they spread that myth)anyway ignoring all the terrorist attacks on jewish settlements like safed in early 19th century where the almost the entire jewish population was wiped out.
realfingers99 said :
The rape stuff is documented both in Ben Gurion's War Diaries and in Pappe. One incident involves the gang rape of a 12 year old who was subsequently murdered. IIRC, this was IDF, not one of the Zionist terror gangs.
interesting that you quote ben gurion and pappe,a useful tool to show you what pappe is.
ben gurion wrote to his son amos 5/10/37
'we do not wish to ,we do not need to expel the arabs and take their place.All our aspirations are built upon the assumption -proven throughout all our activity in the land -that there is enough room in the country for ourselves and arabs'
this is I believe pappe's version of that text
'we must expel arabs and take their places .....The Arabs will have to go, but one needs an opportune moment for making it happen, such as a war.
so in the first part he changes 'we do not need to expel ' to 'we must expel' ,and the second part is a total fabrication,there is no documented evidence of this anywhere ,nor any record of ben gurion saying this.
It doesn't need to be documented, as far as some on here are concerned it will be lies.
The Arabs never attacked Israel, EVER. The Arabs never hurt Jews, EVER. The Arabs never committed ethnic cleansing, EVER. The Arabs are completely innocent victims and any evidence or history to the contrary are planted/written by Mossad.
The Arabs never attacked Israel, EVER. The Arabs never hurt Jews, EVER. The Arabs never committed ethnic cleansing, EVER. The Arabs are completely innocent victims and any evidence or history to the contrary are planted/written by Mossad.
Grumfutock said:
It doesn't need to be documented, as far as some on here are concerned it will be lies.
The Arabs never attacked Israel, EVER. The Arabs never hurt Jews, EVER. The Arabs never committed ethnic cleansing, EVER. The Arabs are completely innocent victims and any evidence or history to the contrary are planted/written by Mossad.
You are as big a fantasist as Erdogan. Cut the hyperbole -- answer the points I raised. Or I'll send the rabbit to get you.The Arabs never attacked Israel, EVER. The Arabs never hurt Jews, EVER. The Arabs never committed ethnic cleansing, EVER. The Arabs are completely innocent victims and any evidence or history to the contrary are planted/written by Mossad.
franki68 said:
franki68 said:
(rape...yeah sure see PLO leaders comments about how they spread that myth)anyway ignoring all the terrorist attacks on jewish settlements like safed in early 19th century where the almost the entire jewish population was wiped out.
Until you learn to use the quote tag properly, It's difficult to make sense out of what you're saying. (rape...yeah sure see PLO leaders comments about how they spread that myth)anyway ignoring all the terrorist attacks on jewish settlements like safed in early 19th century where the almost the entire jewish population was wiped out.
franki68 said:
realfingers99 said :
The rape stuff is documented both in Ben Gurion's War Diaries and in Pappe. One incident involves the gang rape of a 12 year old who was subsequently murdered. IIRC, this was IDF, not one of the Zionist terror gangs.
interesting that you quote ben gurion and pappe,a useful tool to show you what pappe is.
ben gurion wrote to his son amos 5/10/37
'we do not wish to ,we do not need to expel the arabs and take their place.All our aspirations are built upon the assumption -proven throughout all our activity in the land -that there is enough room in the country for ourselves and arabs'
this is I believe pappe's version of that text
'we must expel arabs and take their places .....The Arabs will have to go, but one needs an opportune moment for making it happen, such as a war.
so in the first part he changes 'we do not need to expel ' to 'we must expel' ,and the second part is a total fabrication,there is no documented evidence of this anywhere ,nor any record of ben gurion saying this.
So, Pappe screws up one quote, one quote from Ben-Gurion. The rape stuff is documented both in Ben Gurion's War Diaries and in Pappe. One incident involves the gang rape of a 12 year old who was subsequently murdered. IIRC, this was IDF, not one of the Zionist terror gangs.
interesting that you quote ben gurion and pappe,a useful tool to show you what pappe is.
ben gurion wrote to his son amos 5/10/37
'we do not wish to ,we do not need to expel the arabs and take their place.All our aspirations are built upon the assumption -proven throughout all our activity in the land -that there is enough room in the country for ourselves and arabs'
this is I believe pappe's version of that text
'we must expel arabs and take their places .....The Arabs will have to go, but one needs an opportune moment for making it happen, such as a war.
so in the first part he changes 'we do not need to expel ' to 'we must expel' ,and the second part is a total fabrication,there is no documented evidence of this anywhere ,nor any record of ben gurion saying this.
"Let us assume that a war breaks out. Then we will be able to cleanse the entire area of Central Galilee, including all its refugees, in one stroke. In this context let me mention some mediators who offered to give us the Galilee without war. What they meant was the populated Galilee. They didn’t offer us the empty Galilee, which we could have only by means of a war. Therefore if a war is extended to cover the whole of Palestine, our greatest gain will be the Galilee. It is because without any special military effort which might imperil other fronts, only by using the troops already assigned for the task, we could accomplish our aim of cleansing the Galilee."
And
"My assumption (which is why I am a fervent proponent of a state, even though it is now linked to partition) is that a Jewish state on only part of the land is not the end but the beginning.
When we acquire one thousand or 10,000 dunams, we feel elated. It does not hurt our feelings that by this acquisition we are not in possession of the whole land. This is because this increase in possession is of consequence not only in itself, but because through it we increase our strength, and every increase in strength helps in the possession of the land as a whole. The establishment of a state, even if only on a portion of the land, is the maximal reinforcement of our strength at the present time and a powerful boost to our historical endeavors to liberate the entire country.
We shall admit into the state all the Jews we can. We firmly believe that we can admit more than two million Jews. We shall build a multi-faceted Jewish economy– agricultural, industrial, and maritime. We shall organize an advanced defense force—a superior army which I have no doubt will be one of the best armies in the world. At that point I am confident that we would not fail in settling in the remaining parts of the country, through agreement and understanding with our Arab neighbors, or through some other means."[emphasis mine]
If you're going to parrot out Camera's attack on Pappe, you should at least study the follow up!
I notice no follow up to the rape. The brave, noble, member of "the World's most moral Army" who committed the ensuing murder received a 2 year jail term.
You might also like (it's a relatively short piece) http://www.counterpunch.org/2005/03/11/ben-gurion-...
TheRealFingers99 said:
Grumfutock said:
It doesn't need to be documented, as far as some on here are concerned it will be lies.
The Arabs never attacked Israel, EVER. The Arabs never hurt Jews, EVER. The Arabs never committed ethnic cleansing, EVER. The Arabs are completely innocent victims and any evidence or history to the contrary are planted/written by Mossad.
You are as big a fantasist as Erdogan. Cut the hyperbole -- answer the points I raised. Or I'll send the rabbit to get you.The Arabs never attacked Israel, EVER. The Arabs never hurt Jews, EVER. The Arabs never committed ethnic cleansing, EVER. The Arabs are completely innocent victims and any evidence or history to the contrary are planted/written by Mossad.
And again straight in with the insults! So that cease fire broken twice by you in what? 14 days is it? Yep and I was told I was the aggressor? The trouble is with little keyboard fantasists like you is that you sit in your safe little home and dream up all sorts of half baked conspiracy theories and bull s
t solutions but have no balls to step out of your bubble and live it!
Coward you say? Yea of course I am you little keyboard warrior. I have done more in my life to disprove that little gem than you will ever know or achieve in 30 lives! Or is it all a Mossad lie?
t solutions but have no balls to step out of your bubble and live it! Coward you say? Yea of course I am you little keyboard warrior. I have done more in my life to disprove that little gem than you will ever know or achieve in 30 lives! Or is it all a Mossad lie?
And just for a little info my revisionist friend, this is the people you support, defend and want Israel to trust. Genius idea.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/1...
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/1...
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