Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. Vol 3

[nelly1]

turbobloke said:

Having just read an item in Local Transport Today from a UWE chap called Melia, who might qualify as a transport eco-zealot, the ability of true believers to plug on in the face of overwhelming evidence against their position became clearer. Melia disparaged empirical data and those who use empirical evidence in arguments that are really about political values and the type of world we want. Somehow, it read as though he was saying that all the evidence may be against eco-zealots but that can be sidestepped by forcing the debate into the arena of political values and what sort of world we (he) wants. This has a St Peteresque continuity from the Kyoto delegate who complained that planting trees was ok but it wouldn't bring about the societal change that we (he) wanted.

Link?

[mybrainhurts]

nelly1 said:

turbobloke said:

Having just read an item in Local Transport Today from a UWE chap called Melia, who might qualify as a transport eco-zealot, the ability of true believers to plug on in the face of overwhelming evidence against their position became clearer. Melia disparaged empirical data and those who use empirical evidence in arguments that are really about political values and the type of world we want. Somehow, it read as though he was saying that all the evidence may be against eco-zealots but that can be sidestepped by forcing the debate into the arena of political values and what sort of world we (he) wants. This has a St Peteresque continuity from the Kyoto delegate who complained that planting trees was ok but it wouldn't bring about the societal change that we (he) wanted.

Link?

Here's a taste of his crusade...Prescott was big on this.

http://eprints.uwe.ac.uk/23566/12/Melia%20-%20Carf...

How to make houses hard to sell, in one easy lesson.

[motco]

mybrainhurts said:

nelly1 said:

turbobloke said:

Having just read an item in Local Transport Today from a UWE chap called Melia, who might qualify as a transport eco-zealot, the ability of true believers to plug on in the face of overwhelming evidence against their position became clearer. Melia disparaged empirical data and those who use empirical evidence in arguments that are really about political values and the type of world we want. Somehow, it read as though he was saying that all the evidence may be against eco-zealots but that can be sidestepped by forcing the debate into the arena of political values and what sort of world we (he) wants. This has a St Peteresque continuity from the Kyoto delegate who complained that planting trees was ok but it wouldn't bring about the societal change that we (he) wanted.

Link?

Here's a taste of his crusade...Prescott was big on this.

http://eprints.uwe.ac.uk/23566/12/Melia%20-%20Carf...

How to make houses hard to sell, in one easy lesson.

The Article said:

The criteria for exceptional vehicular access to Stellwerk 60 had caused differences of opinion
amongst the residents. One contested issue was whether older or disabled residents should be
allowed to drive into the interior of the site. The rules adopted by the residents’ association allowed
minibuses for older and disabled residents inside the site but not private cars,.

We could all have bicycles with striped awnings on them! The undertakers (on site, naturally) would have a sort of P.A. system: "Come in number six; your time is up!"

[turbobloke]

mybrainhurts said:

nelly1 said:

turbobloke said:

Having just read an item in Local Transport Today from a UWE chap called Melia, who might qualify as a transport eco-zealot, the ability of true believers to plug on in the face of overwhelming evidence against their position became clearer. Melia disparaged empirical data and those who use empirical evidence in arguments that are really about political values and the type of world we want. Somehow, it read as though he was saying that all the evidence may be against eco-zealots but that can be sidestepped by forcing the debate into the arena of political values and what sort of world we (he) wants. This has a St Peteresque continuity from the Kyoto delegate who complained that planting trees was ok but it wouldn't bring about the societal change that we (he) wanted.

Link?

Here's a taste of his crusade...Prescott was big on this.

http://eprints.uwe.ac.uk/23566/12/Melia%20-%20Carf...

How to make houses hard to sell, in one easy lesson.

That's the sort of thing. I don't have a link and can't type/paste the news article according to NP&E rules, but a snip or two as direct quotes from Meila should be OK:

Steve Melia said:

As with many contentious transport issues, a debate that is really about political values and financial interests has been disguised by arguments – sometimes technical, sometimes spurious – over empirical evidence.

So the debate over whether parking standards influence traffic and travel is largely spurious – clearly they can do, where they are set below the natural level of demand and are effectively enforced. The real issues for debate are whether, where and how parking standards ought to be used to reduce car ownership, traffic generation and the sprawl of cities. That debate is more about values than evidence. It is about the sort of cities and the sort of country that we want to live in.

Latest score

Political Values 1 (Melia, parking penalty, 90th minute)
Evidence 0

Time added on will help

[LongQ]

BBC reports that Climate Politics has been raised a notch in China.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-3200697...

Must be the Chinese year of the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse.

That said I suppose the year of the Goat/Sheep is more appropriate.

Judas Goat and a few billion sheep to target?

[mybrainhurts]

http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2015/3/22/f...

Military wing of the Guardian in outburst of thuggery.

[stevejh]

According to the BBC this morning the National Trust are going to spend £1bn on combating the effects of Climate Change on their properties. The headline item was the effect of 'extreme weather events'.

I'm so glad I'm not a member any more. Such a shame when respected organisations such as the NT and RSPB start preaching this garbage.

[rovermorris999]

I also didn't rejoin the National Trust a few years ago. It's a shame they seem to be going the same way as so many other charities.

[Ovaltine]

We haven't had Mosquitos on the scare merry-go-round for a while...

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-03/tl-...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3006932/Wa...

... as climate warms...

[rovermorris999]

It's worse than that...from the sublime to the ridiculous

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-299...

[Einion Yrth]

Ovaltine said:

We haven't had Mosquitos on the scare merry-go-round for a while...

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-03/tl-...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3006932/Wa...

... as climate warms...

This may be of some interest in this regard.

[turbobloke]

Einion Yrth said:

Ovaltine said:

We haven't had Mosquitos on the scare merry-go-round for a while...

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-03/tl-...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3006932/Wa...

... as climate warms...

This may be of some interest in this regard.

Yes very much so. This, from the final paragraph, has wider application as the same processes referred to earlier also operate more widely.

Prof Paul Reiter said:

The natural history of mosquito-borne diseases is complex, and the interplay of climate, ecology, mosquito biology, and many other factors defies simplistic analysis. The recent resurgence of many of these diseases is a major cause for concern, but it is facile to attribute this resurgence to climate change, or to use models based on temperature to "predict" future prevalence. In my opinion, the IPCC has done a disservice to society by relying on "experts" who have little or no knowledge of the subject, and allowing them to make authoritative pronouncements that are not based on sound science. In truth, the principal determinants of transmission of malaria and many other mosquito-borne diseases are politics, economics and human activities.

[Mr GrimNasty]

Yep, travel of people and other biological material is the biggest factor in disease spread, as with the current problems with various tree pathogens - it's the nursery trade at the root of the problem, not climate change.

[Otispunkmeyer]

Ovaltine said:

We haven't had Mosquitos on the scare merry-go-round for a while...

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-03/tl-...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3006932/Wa...

... as climate warms...

Well, if new housing estates are anything to go by we'll have a load of mozzies anyway. We were being nosey this weekend looking at new houses in a new development at the back of the village. They were going to have 3 large landscaped pond/lake things on the estate, with trees and everything. Im sure it will look lovely.

Thing is, my Mrs pointed out right away that as they are not attached to anything, they'll just become stagnant ponds full of algae and inevitably in the summer, mosquitos. People living nearby in the new houses will have fun on a summers eve then!

[Andy Zarse]

turbobloke said:

Prof Paul Reiter said:

...the principal determinants of transmission of malaria and many other mosquito-borne diseases are politics, economics and human activities.

In which case we would be fools not to join the European Single Currency as soon as possible.

You know what they say; a Euro a day keeps the doctor away!

[turbobloke]

Andy Zarse said:

turbobloke said:

Prof Paul Reiter said:

...the principal determinants of transmission of malaria and many other mosquito-borne diseases are politics, economics and human activities.

In which case we would be fools not to join the European Single Currency as soon as possible.

You know what they say; a Euro a day keeps the doctor away!

Workplace Pensioner said:

I'm in.

[Andy Zarse]

turbobloke said:

Andy Zarse said:

turbobloke said:

Prof Paul Reiter said:

...the principal determinants of transmission of malaria and many other mosquito-borne diseases are politics, economics and human activities.

In which case we would be fools not to join the European Single Currency as soon as possible.

You know what they say; a Euro a day keeps the doctor away!

Workplace Pensioner said:

I'm in.

Strangely enough, I was making a serious point...

http://rt.com/news/malaria-greece-austerity-health...

[turbobloke]

Andy Zarse said:

Strangely enough, I was making a serious point...

http://rt.com/news/malaria-greece-austerity-health...

Article said:

Malaria returns to Greece as austerity wreaks havoc on healthcare

Clearly as Greece got there within the EZ, we need to stay out

[Yiliterate]

Just thought I'd share this photo from the number plates thread in GG - made me chuckle!

[turbobloke]

Yiliterate said:

Just thought I'd share this photo from the number plates thread in GG - made me chuckle!

Pachauri no longer moonlighting, looking for work.

As it's a matter of political record that "it's the Sun wot dunnit" this can go here.

http://www.commdiginews.com/featured/sunspots-2015...

Link said:

One legitimate comparison of the current situation on the Sun is to a cold period on Earth called the Dalton Minimum.

Buy Damart and candles.