Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result (Vol 2)
Discussion
alfie2244 said:
mx5nut said:
otherman said:
alfie2244 said:
mx5nut said:
Shall we just stop having general elections then?
You and others seem to think that democracy is a one time thing by the look of it.
You really are a grade 1 moron.You and others seem to think that democracy is a one time thing by the look of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4BwG7UF-l4
All the waffle concerning a second referendum, it is just waffle warmed and regurgitated by some of the remain camp. Last chance saloon really.
The Government is fully aware of its responsibilities and a second public referendum regarding brexit is not one of them. Government knows the massive damage it would sustain upon democracy and public faith/confidence of the democratic system.
The Government is fully aware of its responsibilities and a second public referendum regarding brexit is not one of them. Government knows the massive damage it would sustain upon democracy and public faith/confidence of the democratic system.
crankedup said:
All the waffle concerning a second referendum, it is just waffle warmed and regurgitated by some of the remain camp. Last chance saloon really.
The Government is fully aware of its responsibilities and a second public referendum regarding brexit is not one of them. Government knows the massive damage it would sustain upon democracy and public faith/confidence of the democratic system.
Maybe I am being a bit stupid but why is a referendum, which is after all the best way of testing public opinion on a specific matter, undemocratic?The Government is fully aware of its responsibilities and a second public referendum regarding brexit is not one of them. Government knows the massive damage it would sustain upon democracy and public faith/confidence of the democratic system.
sidicks said:
Mrr T said:
Maybe I am being a bit stupid but why is a referendum, which is after all the best way of testing public opinion on a specific matter, undemocratic?
Perhaps we need to implement the results of the most recent democratic referendum, before considering a new one?Mrr T said:
Maybe I am being a bit stupid but why is a referendum, which is after all the best way of testing public opinion on a specific matter, undemocratic?
In and of itself, it isn't. A referendum is very 'pure' part of democracy. With that comes an obligation not to abuse it.But the purpose of this mooted second referendum is specifically to obviate an earlier referendum. So the very idea of referenda in general would be undermined by a second referendum, thus damaging democracy.
We take referenda seriously (well, we should. The group 18-24 didn't. Whoops!) because the result will be taken seriously.
If we don't take the result of the first one seriously, why would we take the result of the second seriously? And the third...?
mx5nut said:
Shall we just stop having general elections then?
You and others seem to think that democracy is a one time thing by the look of it.
Against my better judgement, I'm going to respond to one of your posts. The response is so obvious I shouldn't need to post it at all, but here goes.You and others seem to think that democracy is a one time thing by the look of it.
In a general election voters vote on the basis that they are electing the government for the next five years, notwithstanding votes of confidence or injudicious snap elections (heaven forbid). After the election everyone goes back to watching gogglebox or Britain's Got Talent, and we leave the elected government to go about the business of winding the country into the ground for the next 5 years. Once they've done that we pretend we didn't vote for them and elect the other side instead for their five year ride on the cash filled bouncy castle called power.
The EU referendum was a vote to decide whether we should leave the EU. Not leave the EU for five years. Not leave the EU unless we changed our minds in the meantime because we got so tired of people whining about it. It was to leave the EU. Having had the referendum result we should now go about implementing it in the pre-arranged timescale. If in the future there is appetite for the UK to re-join the EU, then a further referendum could be the vehicle to decide this.
Think of it like buying a new car. You decide which one you want. You place your order with the dealer, and you wait for it to be delivered, without going back to the dealer and saying actually the 19 inch wheels would be better or that you didn't understand what heated headrests meant. When it is delivered you drive it for a few years. You may regret it, but you made your decision and you live by it for a few years, like an adult. After a few years you may feel different about it and decide not to buy another Prius.
Mrr T said:
crankedup said:
All the waffle concerning a second referendum, it is just waffle warmed and regurgitated by some of the remain camp. Last chance saloon really.
The Government is fully aware of its responsibilities and a second public referendum regarding brexit is not one of them. Government knows the massive damage it would sustain upon democracy and public faith/confidence of the democratic system.
Maybe I am being a bit stupid but why is a referendum, which is after all the best way of testing public opinion on a specific matter, undemocratic?The Government is fully aware of its responsibilities and a second public referendum regarding brexit is not one of them. Government knows the massive damage it would sustain upon democracy and public faith/confidence of the democratic system.
Camoradi said:
In a general election voters vote on the basis that they are electing the government for the next five years, notwithstanding votes of confidence or injudicious snap elections (heaven forbid).
But a vote if confidence in Brexit has been lost should not be allowed because... reasons.Leaver Logic®
Camoradi said:
Against my better judgement, I'm going to respond to one of your posts. The response is so obvious I shouldn't need to post it at all, but here goes.
In a general election voters vote on the basis that they are electing the government for the next five years, notwithstanding votes of confidence or injudicious snap elections (heaven forbid). After the election everyone goes back to watching gogglebox or Britain's Got Talent, and we leave the elected government to go about the business of winding the country into the ground for the next 5 years. Once they've done that we pretend we didn't vote for them and elect the other side instead for their five year ride on the cash filled bouncy castle called power.
The EU referendum was a vote to decide whether we should leave the EU. Not leave the EU for five years. Not leave the EU unless we changed our minds in the meantime because we got so tired of people whining about it. It was to leave the EU. Having had the referendum result we should now go about implementing it in the pre-arranged timescale. If in the future there is appetite for the UK to re-join the EU, then a further referendum could be the vehicle to decide this.
Think of it like buying a new car. You decide which one you want. You place your order with the dealer, and you wait for it to be delivered, without going back to the dealer and saying actually the 19 inch wheels would be better or that you didn't understand what heated headrests meant. When it is delivered you drive it for a few years. You may regret it, but you made your decision and you live by it for a few years, like an adult. After a few years you may feel different about it and decide not to buy another Prius.
What if you were ordering a car, you didn't know the make, the model, the colour etc. Only three quarters into the wait for your new car would you find that out. Should you be allowed to change your mind?In a general election voters vote on the basis that they are electing the government for the next five years, notwithstanding votes of confidence or injudicious snap elections (heaven forbid). After the election everyone goes back to watching gogglebox or Britain's Got Talent, and we leave the elected government to go about the business of winding the country into the ground for the next 5 years. Once they've done that we pretend we didn't vote for them and elect the other side instead for their five year ride on the cash filled bouncy castle called power.
The EU referendum was a vote to decide whether we should leave the EU. Not leave the EU for five years. Not leave the EU unless we changed our minds in the meantime because we got so tired of people whining about it. It was to leave the EU. Having had the referendum result we should now go about implementing it in the pre-arranged timescale. If in the future there is appetite for the UK to re-join the EU, then a further referendum could be the vehicle to decide this.
Think of it like buying a new car. You decide which one you want. You place your order with the dealer, and you wait for it to be delivered, without going back to the dealer and saying actually the 19 inch wheels would be better or that you didn't understand what heated headrests meant. When it is delivered you drive it for a few years. You may regret it, but you made your decision and you live by it for a few years, like an adult. After a few years you may feel different about it and decide not to buy another Prius.
PurpleMoonlight said:
What if you were ordering a car, you didn't know the make, the model, the colour etc. Only three quarters into the wait for your new car would you find that out. Should you be allowed to change your mind?
If I remember rightly, you chose not to order a car at all...
Ghibli said:
crankedup said:
All the waffle concerning a second referendum, it is just waffle warmed and regurgitated by some of the remain camp. Last chance saloon really.
Thanks to Nige we have this waffle today.sidicks said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
What if you were ordering a car, you didn't know the make, the model, the colour etc. Only three quarters into the wait for your new car would you find that out. Should you be allowed to change your mind?
If I remember rightly, you chose not to order a car at all...mx5nut said:
Camoradi said:
In a general election voters vote on the basis that they are electing the government for the next five years, notwithstanding votes of confidence or injudicious snap elections (heaven forbid).
But a vote if confidence in Brexit has been lost should not be allowed because... reasons.Leaver Logic®
How do you establish that in order to justify having a vote?
Do you have a vote about whether to have a vote??
PurpleMoonlight said:
What if you were ordering a car, you didn't know the make, the model, the colour etc. Only three quarters into the wait for your new car would you find that out. Should you be allowed to change your mind?
....or if you were making monthly payments for your car for 40 years and it turned out to be a knackered bus full of old drunkards who had pissed all your money away 
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