Israel invaded

[Ridgemont]

Johnnybee said:

What did all the crackpot conspiracy theorists do before the internet existed, how did they spread their beliefs?

They took over unstable governments, rounded up people and sent them to death camps. It was a thing apparently 80 years ago. Seems the lesson has not been learned.

[McGee_22]

McGee_22 said:

R4 Today this morning had a long interview with an Aussie Doctor who worked for WHO. He commented about IDF strikes on Health Care establishments in Gaza but to be fair also commented that Hamas has hit Health Care facilities in both Gaza and Israel, before he was specifically asked his opinion on the IDF evidence of military activity in the Hospital. The Doctor pointedly avoided answering the question and instead stuck to what sounded like a pre-scripted soundbite about the massive reduction in Healthcare facilities across Gaza.

The interviewer thanked him and then spoke to an IDF spokesman about the evidence of tunnels - the interviewer decided to try and change the tack of the conversation about the tunnels into one about Hospital basements saying that all Hospitals have basements with the obvious suggestion that the IDF footage was of a completely innocent nature. The IDF spokesman retorted that perhaps the BBC should interview the British Doctor that France 24 had interviewed yesterday who when working at the same Hospital had been told to go nowhere near the basement otherwise he would be shot.

I haven't found that France 24 interview yet but I will edit and link to it it when I do.

Edit and bump to include the link...

https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-doctor-who-worked...

It's a Times of Israel link but they are reporting the interview carried out by France 24

[Mopey]

Countdown said:

Kawasicki said:

What kind of command centre were you expecting they would find, something like this?



They found weapons in a hospital, hamas using the hospital to move hostages around…

https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/11/20/al-shifa-...

To be honest I was. If it’s supposed to be a “Command and Control Centre “ I’d expect there to be some kind of equipment that could be used for command and control.

With regards to the hostages being at the hospital - if Hamas controlled the Hospital why not switch the CCTV off?

ETA Is Spiked Online owned by Fox?

It’s not goldeneye ffs.

[julian987R]

McGee_22 said:

Edit and bump to include the link...

https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-doctor-who-worked...

It's a Times of Israel link but they are reporting the interview carried out by France 24

In a complete twist to rival The Usual Suspects, that doctor is none other than Polly G.

[P. ONeill]

Former Israeli Prime Minister explaining to CNN that Israel built the bunkers under Al Shifa hospital in the 1980s.

https://twitter.com/moufidmostafa/status/172673569...

[Penny Whistle]

P. ONeill said:

Former Israeli Prime Minister explaining to CNN that Israel built the bunkers under Al Shifa hospital in the 1980s.

https://twitter.com/moufidmostafa/status/172673569...

Not surprising then that Israel was so certain that they were there !

[911hope]

Ridgemont said:

Lol. It’s what used to be Living Marxism (the magazine which was the in-house production of the Revolutionary communist party).
While it gets held up as some kind of right wing den, it’s because of its libertarian views however the columnists skew heavily to the left.

ET remove errant punctuation.

Edited by Ridgemont on Monday 20th November 20:30

Just reading their list of featured topics tells us it is a right leaning publication. Follow that BT reading a couple of paragraphs of text tells us there is no pretence at balance or rigour in the stories.

Can be rejected as garbage.

[Ridgemont]

911hope said:

Ridgemont said:

Lol. It’s what used to be Living Marxism (the magazine which was the in-house production of the Revolutionary communist party).
While it gets held up as some kind of right wing den, it’s because of its libertarian views however the columnists skew heavily to the left.

ET remove errant punctuation.

Edited by Ridgemont on Monday 20th November 20:30

Just reading their list of featured topics tells us it is a right leaning publication. Follow that BT reading a couple of paragraphs of text tells us there is no pretence at balance or rigour in the stories.

Can be rejected as garbage.

And this is exactly what is wrong with discourse today.

30 seconds of browsing of ‘featured topics’ having been pointed to the fact they are an offshoot of the RCP and you dismiss them as right wing shills.

Have you ever considered that politics is a little more nuanced than your ‘right wrong left right’ dialectic?
It’s bloody depressing that the go to is that an analysis from the left wing gets dismissed as right wing. That effectively a left wing organ gets plonked in the ‘too hard to comprehend’ category because it isn’t easily dismissible.

Utterly infuriating. Look up Frank Furedi who is the guiding light of Living Marxism as was and now Spiked and take a bloody dance on the wild side.

Anyhow: what spiked is posting re the Hamas arms discoveries is not ‘woo woo’. It’s real no matter how much some may deny it.

But yeah: ‘fox’. Jeez.

[rscott]

Ridgemont said:

911hope said:

Ridgemont said:

Lol. It’s what used to be Living Marxism (the magazine which was the in-house production of the Revolutionary communist party).
While it gets held up as some kind of right wing den, it’s because of its libertarian views however the columnists skew heavily to the left.

ET remove errant punctuation.

Edited by Ridgemont on Monday 20th November 20:30

Just reading their list of featured topics tells us it is a right leaning publication. Follow that BT reading a couple of paragraphs of text tells us there is no pretence at balance or rigour in the stories.

Can be rejected as garbage.

And this is exactly what is wrong with discourse today.

30 seconds of browsing of ‘featured topics’ having been pointed to the fact they are an offshoot of the RCP and you dismiss them as right wing shills.

Have you ever considered that politics is a little more nuanced than your ‘right wrong left right’ dialectic?
It’s bloody depressing that the go to is that an analysis from the left wing gets dismissed as right wing. That effectively a left wing organ gets plonked in the ‘too hard to comprehend’ category because it isn’t easily dismissible.

Utterly infuriating. Look up Frank Furedi who is the guiding light of Living Marxism as was and now Spiked and take a bloody dance on the wild side.

Anyhow: what spiked is posting re the Hamas arms discoveries is not ‘woo woo’. It’s real no matter how much some may deny it.

But yeah: ‘fox’. Jeez.

Do Spiked mention that Israel built the tunnels they seem surprised to have discovered during this raid?

[isaldiri]

Wasn't it supposed to be only the bad guys that build military installations under hospitals....?

[Solocle]

isaldiri said:

Wasn't it supposed to be only the bad guys that build military installations under hospitals....?

Only in Israel does "Israel modernises Gaza hospital to its building codes that require bomb shelters" become "Israel builds military installation under Palestinian hospital".

Unless you are suggesting Israel built it for military purposes, rather than civil defence... and then you'd better have some damn strong evidence.

And even then you're suggesting that Israel committing a war crime in the 1980s justifies an ongoing Hamas war crime.

[Countdown]

Solocle said:

Only in Israel does "Israel modernises Gaza hospital to its building codes that require bomb shelters" become "Israel builds military installation under Palestinian hospital".

Unless you are suggesting Israel built it for military purposes, rather than civil defence... and then you'd better have some damn strong evidence.

And even then you're suggesting that Israel committing a war crime in the 1980s justifies an ongoing Hamas war crime.

“Israeli Bomb Shelter “ wasn’t the narrative being peddled by the IDF though, was it? Why all the faux-surprise and “look what we found!!!” when it turns out that they built it in the first place?

[isaldiri]

Solocle said:

Only in Israel does "Israel modernises Gaza hospital to its building codes that require bomb shelters" become "Israel builds military installation under Palestinian hospital".

Unless you are suggesting Israel built it for military purposes, rather than civil defence... and then you'd better have some damn strong evidence.

And even then you're suggesting that Israel committing a war crime in the 1980s justifies an ongoing Hamas war crime.

I'm merely suggesting given how much some had been damning Hamas for building tunnels and bases under hospitals, given that it seems that bunker was actually built by Israel, i wonder why the same condemnation isn't quite as swift....

[Solocle]

isaldiri said:

I'm merely suggesting given how much some had been damning Hamas for building tunnels and bases under hospitals, given that it seems that bunker was actually built by Israel, i wonder why the same condemnation isn't quite as swift....

The key thing is tunnels and bases... for Hamas. And I very much doubt Israel had a hand in building the one in the courtyard. That's classic Hamas architecture.

In 20 years of control, you know, they might have built more tunnels...

[isaldiri]

Solocle said:

isaldiri said:

I'm merely suggesting given how much some had been damning Hamas for building tunnels and bases under hospitals, given that it seems that bunker was actually built by Israel, i wonder why the same condemnation isn't quite as swift....

The key thing is tunnels and bases... for Hamas. And I very much doubt Israel had a hand in building the one in the courtyard. That's classic Hamas architecture.

In 20 years of control, you know, they might have built more tunnels...

So it's fine for one side to build defensive structures under hospitals but not the other?

[Countdown]

Videos of th Al-Ahli blast which Israel said was due to a misfiring Hamas rocket.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-middle-east-67...

[Solocle]

isaldiri said:

So it's fine for one side to build defensive structures under hospitals but not the other?

Defensive structures for civilians to shelter in? fine.

Defensive structures to protect military assets? War crime.

Hope that helps.

[isaldiri]

Solocle said:

isaldiri said:

So it's fine for one side to build defensive structures under hospitals but not the other?

Defensive structures for civilians to shelter in? fine.

Defensive structures to protect military assets? War crime.

Hope that helps.

Ah yes - a defensive structure built for civilians to shelter in that given the location, would primarily only ever be facing attack from the ones who built it in the first place. Very prescient.

How many other gazan buildings while under occupation were the Israelis kind enough to update to their building codes as well for civilians to shelter from their attacks?

[andymadmak]

isaldiri said:

Ah yes - a defensive structure built for civilians to shelter in that given the location, would primarily only ever be facing attack from the ones who built it in the first place. Very prescient.

How many other gazan buildings while under occupation were the Israelis kind enough to update to their building codes as well for civilians to shelter from their attacks?

Despite Israel building the shelters for civilians, it is interesting that Hamas refused to let the civilians use the shelter, or indeed any other part of the tunnel network to shelter from attack. Apparently those places (including the ones under the hospital) are for fighters to operate from.

You seem to think you have identified a mighty big "gotcha" against the Israelis. In fact all you have done is illustrate that Israel has built bomb shelters for Israeli AND Gazan civilians. Only HAMAS stops Gazans using those shelters.
Something something something still the fault of Israelis something something something is likely to be your response as usual

[EddieSteadyGo]

isaldiri said:

Solocle said:

isaldiri said:

I'm merely suggesting given how much some had been damning Hamas for building tunnels and bases under hospitals, given that it seems that bunker was actually built by Israel, i wonder why the same condemnation isn't quite as swift....

The key thing is tunnels and bases... for Hamas. And I very much doubt Israel had a hand in building the one in the courtyard. That's classic Hamas architecture.

In 20 years of control, you know, they might have built more tunnels...

So it's fine for one side to build defensive structures under hospitals but not the other?

Does anyone here know the history of these 'bomb shelters', specifically when they were constructed, why they were constructed, what their approximate capacity is and whether this was a one-off or part of a larger plan to construct shelters? I had a search on Google but I couldn't see anything definitive?