Israel invaded
Discussion
EddieSteadyGo said:
Does anyone here know the history of these 'bomb shelters', specifically when they were constructed, why they were constructed, what their approximate capacity is and whether this was a one-off or part of a larger plan to construct shelters? I had a search on Google but I couldn't see anything definitive?
My guess is that they were for the benefit of the Settlers who had been forced to move from the Sinai and relocated to Gaza in the early 80's after Israel did a Land-for-Peace deal with Egypt. The suggestion that Israel built them "for the Gazans" is beyond laughable.Countdown said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
Does anyone here know the history of these 'bomb shelters', specifically when they were constructed, why they were constructed, what their approximate capacity is and whether this was a one-off or part of a larger plan to construct shelters? I had a search on Google but I couldn't see anything definitive?
My guess is that they were for the benefit of the Settlers who had been forced to move from the Sinai and relocated to Gaza in the early 80's after Israel did a Land-for-Peace deal with Egypt. The suggestion that Israel built them "for the Gazans" is beyond laughable.andymadmak said:
You're probably right about when they were built, and possibly even why they were built, but all that does is affirm that they were built as shelters. Why does Hamas not let Gazans use the purpose built shelter facilities? Because THEY are using them instead for military purposes. Still not Israels fault, no matter how hard you try.
if they were using them for military purposes I'd expect to see some evidence. so far I'm not aware of anything. the problem is that Israel was always insisting that this was a Command and Control centre - wouldn't you expect to see some kind of comms equipment, weaponry, hamas personnel? Countdown said:
if they were using them for military purposes I'd expect to see some evidence. so far I'm not aware of anything. the problem is that Israel was always insisting that this was a Command and Control centre - wouldn't you expect to see some kind of comms equipment, weaponry, hamas personnel?
If it was used as a headquarters I would expect them to remove everything military when they withdrew, partly for propaganda and partly not to leave any intel for the idf. andymadmak said:
You're probably right about when they were built, and possibly even why they were built, but all that does is affirm that they were built as shelters. Why does Hamas not let Gazans use the purpose built shelter facilities? Because THEY are using them instead for military purposes. Still not Israels fault, no matter how hard you try.
There's an article with some architectural plans from the late 80's/90s here. It's in Hebrew. https://xnet.ynet.co.il/xo/articles/0,7340,L-31065...This is part of the underground floor:
Just looks like part of the hospital to me, no nefarious purpose in constructing it.
dudleybloke said:
If it was used as a headquarters I would expect them to remove everything military when they withdrew, partly for propaganda and partly not to leave any intel for the idf.
The hospital has been surrounded for weeks. When did they withdraw it? More to the point, given the plethora of surveillance that gaza is under, HOW did they manage to get out without being seen?EddieSteadyGo said:
Does anyone here know the history of these 'bomb shelters', specifically when they were constructed, why they were constructed, what their approximate capacity is and whether this was a one-off or part of a larger plan to construct shelters? I had a search on Google but I couldn't see anything definitive?
Not anything definitive I suppose but interestingly enough this article stated pretty much exactly what Barak said to CNN in 2014 during that war against gaza.https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/t...
""The Israelis are so sure about the location of the Hamas bunker, however, not because they are trying to score propaganda points, or because it has been repeatedly mentioned in passing by Western reporters—but because they built it. Back in 1983, when Israel still ruled Gaza, they built a secure underground operating room and tunnel network beneath Shifa hospital—which is one among several reasons why Israeli security sources are so sure that there is a main Hamas command bunker in or around the large cement basement beneath the area of Building 2 of the Hospital, which reporters are obviously prohibited from entering.""
Countdown said:
dudleybloke said:
If it was used as a headquarters I would expect them to remove everything military when they withdrew, partly for propaganda and partly not to leave any intel for the idf.
The hospital has been surrounded for weeks. When did they withdraw it? More to the point, given the plethora of surveillance that gaza is under, HOW did they manage to get out without being seen?Countdown said:
dudleybloke said:
If it was used as a headquarters I would expect them to remove everything military when they withdrew, partly for propaganda and partly not to leave any intel for the idf.
The hospital has been surrounded for weeks. When did they withdraw it? More to the point, given the plethora of surveillance that gaza is under, HOW did they manage to get out without being seen?Countdown said:
if they were using them for military purposes I'd expect to see some evidence. so far I'm not aware of anything. the problem is that Israel was always insisting that this was a Command and Control centre - wouldn't you expect to see some kind of comms equipment, weaponry, hamas personnel?
What, like, say, CCTV of hostages being dragged inside by men armed with AK47s? Or do you think they took them there for treatment?catso said:
If the tunnels are all Hamas and being used for terrorist purposes, would it not be possible to flood them? can't be that far from the sea. Could give prior warning to let anyone escape/surrender, surely safer for the Israeli army than going down and engaging with the tunnellers...
How do you think any hostages in the tunnel would fare with that decision?EddieSteadyGo said:
Does anyone here know the history of these 'bomb shelters', specifically when they were constructed, why they were constructed, what their approximate capacity is and whether this was a one-off or part of a larger plan to construct shelters? I had a search on Google but I couldn't see anything definitive?
Not specifically regarding this hospital, but Israel built some pretty big infrastructure following the Yom Kippur war, notably giant air bases in Sinai. I believe Taba airport was originally the staging area for Israel's attack on the Osirak nuclear plant on Iraq.Bomb shelters & secure rooms are absolutely everywhere in Israel, so it is of no suprise they built one under a hospital at the time.
catso said:
If the tunnels are all Hamas and being used for terrorist purposes, would it not be possible to flood them? can't be that far from the sea. Could give prior warning to let anyone escape/surrender, surely safer for the Israeli army than going down and engaging with the tunnellers...
Egypt has already tried multiple times on there side of the border. I believe the 'sterile zone' now extends hundreds of metres into Egypt - they raized several blocks & flooded the tunnels as well, which had the side effects of poisoning the local aquifer with salt.....Oakey said:
Countdown said:
if they were using them for military purposes I'd expect to see some evidence. so far I'm not aware of anything. the problem is that Israel was always insisting that this was a Command and Control centre - wouldn't you expect to see some kind of comms equipment, weaponry, hamas personnel?
What, like, say, CCTV of hostages being dragged inside by men armed with AK47s? Or do you think they took them there for treatment?As I mentioned earlier, it's odd that Hamas would leave the CCTV on if they were in control of the Hospital. Not only leave it on but continually recording. so that the IDF could review the tapes.
Countdown said:
I think that's a possibility. The hostages will be far more useful to hamas alive than dead.
As I mentioned earlier, it's odd that Hamas would leave the CCTV on if they were in control of the Hospital. Not only leave it on but continually recording. so that the IDF could review the tapes.
Why Shifa? Why go to the hospital about the furthest from Israel?As I mentioned earlier, it's odd that Hamas would leave the CCTV on if they were in control of the Hospital. Not only leave it on but continually recording. so that the IDF could review the tapes.
g4ry13 said:
catso said:
If the tunnels are all Hamas and being used for terrorist purposes, would it not be possible to flood them? can't be that far from the sea. Could give prior warning to let anyone escape/surrender, surely safer for the Israeli army than going down and engaging with the tunnellers...
How do you think any hostages in the tunnel would fare with that decision?isaldiri said:
Not anything definitive I suppose but interestingly enough this article stated pretty much exactly what Barak said to CNN in 2014 during that war against gaza.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/t...
""The Israelis are so sure about the location of the Hamas bunker, however, not because they are trying to score propaganda points, or because it has been repeatedly mentioned in passing by Western reporters—but because they built it. Back in 1983, when Israel still ruled Gaza, they built a secure underground operating room and tunnel network beneath Shifa hospital—which is one among several reasons why Israeli security sources are so sure that there is a main Hamas command bunker in or around the large cement basement beneath the area of Building 2 of the Hospital, which reporters are obviously prohibited from entering.""
Interesting - I hadn't seen that.https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/t...
""The Israelis are so sure about the location of the Hamas bunker, however, not because they are trying to score propaganda points, or because it has been repeatedly mentioned in passing by Western reporters—but because they built it. Back in 1983, when Israel still ruled Gaza, they built a secure underground operating room and tunnel network beneath Shifa hospital—which is one among several reasons why Israeli security sources are so sure that there is a main Hamas command bunker in or around the large cement basement beneath the area of Building 2 of the Hospital, which reporters are obviously prohibited from entering.""
Countdown said:
I think that's a possibility. The hostages will be far more useful to hamas alive than dead.
As I mentioned earlier, it's odd that Hamas would leave the CCTV on if they were in control of the Hospital. Not only leave it on but continually recording. so that the IDF could review the tapes.
I was particularly struck by the hostage desperately struggling as they dragged him in for 'treatment'. As I mentioned earlier, it's odd that Hamas would leave the CCTV on if they were in control of the Hospital. Not only leave it on but continually recording. so that the IDF could review the tapes.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff