Elon Musk $41B offer for Twitter

[RichTT]

dobbo_ said:

They can't force twitter to show an ad whatever their motivation is. If it's possible for it to appear that's it.

If it can appear, then it can appear again. Arguing about the how is irrelevant, it's the why that matters.

Every and any algorithm can be manipulated to produce rare occurrences.

How? Because no social media system is 100% reliable in capturing every single instance of the content that should be demonetized.

But arguing that an occurrence rate of reportedly 0.00000009% is a typical user experience is disingenuous. There is a greater incidence rate of being born with six toes (Polydactylism at 0.000001%) than seeing a white supremacy tweet with an advertisement next to it.

Obviously this is unacceptable and we should make sure that we no longer have children in case some are born with six toes.

Fake virtue signalling outrage.

“People throwing tantrums and fake outrage. Knowing very well that their judgment is not based on whether what was done, being right or wrong, but it depends on who did it to make it right or wrong.”

[RichTT]

durbster said:

This doesn't make sense. How can you believe Musk's claim that it's practically impossible for this to happen naturally, and then also believe his claim that somebody was able to instigate it manually? Both those statements are contradictory - they can't both be true.

"practically impossible" - a phrase used to describe something that is very unlikely to happen, but not technically impossible. It is often used to describe something that would be so difficult or time-consuming to do that it is not worth trying.

ie. someone who wanted to produce repeated examples of this happening would have to intentionally refresh their carefully curated nazi focused feed to experience this. Also know as spinning a narrative to produced biased reporting.

durbster said:

The fact is:

• the content is on there and stays on there for a good while because they don't have the moderators to deal with it.
• the adverts are also on there.

At some point those two facts will inevitably converge. Why wouldn't they?

• Yes, it's done algorithmically and not perfect
• Yes, there is advertising on there

Yes, at an incidence rate of 50 in 5.5 billion impressions, it has a chance of happening.

durbster said:

RichTT said:

said:

"Of the 5.5 billion ad impressions...

...However, spin is their bread and butter.

Spin?

You believe what he says about how many ad impressions they get each day do you?

Well you believe that they produced all this content organically do you? Incredulity works both ways.

[tangerine_sedge]

RichTT said:

Every and any algorithm can be manipulated to produce rare occurrences.

How? Because no social media system is 100% reliable in capturing every single instance of the content that should be demonetized.

But arguing that an occurrence rate of reportedly 0.00000009% is a typical user experience is disingenuous. There is a greater incidence rate of being born with six toes (Polydactylism at 0.000001%) than seeing a white supremacy tweet with an advertisement next to it.

Obviously this is unacceptable and we should make sure that we no longer have children in case some are born with six toes.

Fake virtue signalling outrage.

“People throwing tantrums and fake outrage. Knowing very well that their judgment is not based on whether what was done, being right or wrong, but it depends on who did it to make it right or wrong.”

You are still failing to understand. It's not that it is unlikely to occur, it's the fact that it can occur, and Musk has actively made the situation worse by sacking the moderators, allowing previously banned people back onto the platform and encouraging/promoting people posting this type of content.

Those corporates have obviously decided that Musk is never going to control this, and have decided to take their advertising dollars elsewhere.

The obvious thing for Musk to do, is to put effective controls in place to stop this from happening, but that would be tacit admission that his 'free speech absolutist' approach is flawed. Musk is too narcissistic to ever admit his mistakes, so here we are with his team of loyal supporters blaming the far left.

[tangerine_sedge]

robm3 said:

Was listening to the Joe Rogan Podcast with Musk recently.
I'm glad he brought Twitter and do think his freedom of speech message is correct.

Now he needs to launch a more balanced browser service and compete with Google, which is also subtly leaning towards one direction.

I'm still trying to work out what a 'balanced browser service' is(*1)? If by that, you mean that Google search uses PageRank to offer the most authoritive (most referenced) information ahead(*2) of lesser atributed sources then other search engines are available.

(*1) browser /= Google search.
(*2) obviously behind advertisments

[minimoog]

RichTT said:

Musk hasn't denied it happened, his claim is that given the organic impressions on a daily basis, and their manipulation of the platform, that the actual occurrences are around 0.00000009% of advertising impressions. So essentially never.

"Of the 5.5 billion ad impressions on X that day, less than 50 total ad impressions were served against all of the organic content featured in the Media Matters article,”

That's all fine but it's entirely within the gift of the advertisers to decide if they're happy with that probabilty, or more widely if they are content to continue using a platform which refuses to moderate and even encourages such content, regardless of the actual chances of the two appearing side by side.

This realy isn't difficult.

[President Merkin]

Eh? Internet browsers are woke now? I can't keep up.

[minimoog]

RichTT said:

Fake virtue signalling outrage.

I'd say the outrage appears to be directed more at autonomous corporations deciding where and where not to spend their own money.

[RichTT]

tangerine_sedge said:

You are still failing to understand. It's not that it is unlikely to occur, it's the fact that it can occur, and Musk has actively made the situation worse by sacking the moderators, allowing previously banned people back onto the platform and encouraging/promoting people posting this type of content.

Those corporates have obviously decided that Musk is never going to control this, and have decided to take their advertising dollars elsewhere.

The obvious thing for Musk to do, is to put effective controls in place to stop this from happening, but that would be tacit admission that his 'free speech absolutist' approach is flawed. Musk is too narcissistic to ever admit his mistakes, so here we are with his team of loyal supporters blaming the far left.

I'm not failing to understand anything. Lots of things can occur. The probability is almost zero. The algorithm, whilst not perfect, is doing the job of demonetising and deboosting truly hateful content and in truth is probably better at it than thousands of militant human moderators. Of which I have seen exactly zero evidence despite spending a lot of time on the platform.

This is the same faux outrage as all the articles about hate speech rocketing after Elon allowed people back on to the platform (as you allude to), and yes there was an increase. Then after than it's dropped off to about the same levels as before. Stupid, random racist people posting crap because they think they could get away with it and feed the outrage machine, soon becoming bored of it, and then back to an average user base of normal people discussing normal things on the whole.

https://www.isi.edu/news/55932/new-twitter-now-wit...



Also, as far as blaming the far left.

Well, did you know that David Brock, the Founder & CEO of Media Matters for America, was one-half of a DC power couple with his partner James Alefantis , the owner of Comet Ping Pong pizzeria? That's the restaurant at the center of the infamous Pizza-gate conspiracy theory.

The guy who was credited with and thanked effusively for 'debunking' the Podesta / Pizza gate scandal, Slade Sohmer, was arrested after an examination turned up more than 1,300 pornographic images and videos, hundreds of which police believe involve children.

The cases of which was spread, and the news broken on Twitter. But I'm sure it's aaaaalll just a coincidence.

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/ex-news-site-...

https://washingtonlife.com/2010/05/14/power-list-2...

[captain_cynic]

President Merkin said:

Eh? Internet browsers are woke now? I can't keep up.

Yep... They are literally nuts.

Also unable to tell the difference between a web browser and a search engine.

But I suspect what they really want is someone to protec them from the facts they don't like hearing..

[tangerine_sedge]

RichTT said:

I'm not failing to understand anything. Lots of things can occur. The probability is almost zero. The algorithm, whilst not perfect, is doing the job of demonetising and deboosting truly hateful content and in truth is probably better at it than thousands of militant human moderators. Of which I have seen exactly zero evidence despite spending a lot of time on the platform.

This is the same faux outrage as all the articles about hate speech rocketing after Elon allowed people back on to the platform (as you allude to), and yes there was an increase. Then after than it's dropped off to about the same levels as before. Stupid, random racist people posting crap because they think they could get away with it and feed the outrage machine, soon becoming bored of it, and then back to an average user base of normal people discussing normal things on the whole.

https://www.isi.edu/news/55932/new-twitter-now-wit...



Also, as far as blaming the far left.

Well, did you know that David Brock, the Founder & CEO of Media Matters for America, was one-half of a DC power couple with his partner James Alefantis , the owner of Comet Ping Pong pizzeria? That's the restaurant at the center of the infamous Pizza-gate conspiracy theory.

The guy who was credited with and thanked effusively for 'debunking' the Podesta / Pizza gate scandal, Slade Sohmer, was arrested after an examination turned up more than 1,300 pornographic images and videos, hundreds of which police believe involve children.

The cases of which was spread, and the news broken on Twitter. But I'm sure it's aaaaalll just a coincidence.

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/ex-news-site-...

https://washingtonlife.com/2010/05/14/power-list-2...

Is that the Pizzagate story that talked of children being abused/murdered in the basement? The pizza restaurant which doesn't actually have a basement? The one that was pushed by Qanon and CTers?

[RichTT]

tangerine_sedge said:

Is that the Pizzagate story that talked of children being abused/murdered in the basement? The pizza restaurant which doesn't actually have a basement? The one that was pushed by Qanon and CTers?

Whether you want to go down that rabbit hole or not is one matter. Accepting that the person running MM has a personal connection to someone who suffered reputation damage as a result of the news cycle in/on/around Twitter and might have a person agenda with Musk now, is not a far stretch.

However,

https://www.metroweekly.com/2015/04/from-scratch-j...

[dobbo_]

RichTT said:

I'm not failing to understand anything. Lots of things can occur. The probability is almost zero.

Guess what? Advertisers are allowed to see "almost zero" as too great a risk, and stop advertising! Crazy, free speech butts up against capitalism and Musk loses even more money.

[RichTT]

dobbo_ said:

Guess what? Advertisers are allowed to see "almost zero" as too great a risk, and stop advertising! Crazy, free speech butts up against capitalism and Musk loses even more money.

Not sure what's worse, MMs spin, or your gullibility tbh.

[Byker28i]

RichTT said:

tangerine_sedge said:

Is that the Pizzagate story that talked of children being abused/murdered in the basement? The pizza restaurant which doesn't actually have a basement? The one that was pushed by Qanon and CTers?

Whether you want to go down that rabbit hole or not is one matter. Accepting that the person running MM has a personal connection to someone who suffered reputation damage as a result of the news cycle in/on/around Twitter and might have a person agenda with Musk now, is not a far stretch.

However,

https://www.metroweekly.com/2015/04/from-scratch-j...

Oh my - the completely debunked pizzagate is now being pushed by RichTT again! and then accuses others of being gullible

It's the mental gymnastics some will try to defend Musk...

It's all of his own making, it's not the first time he's promoted or amplified racist or white supremacist comments and I doubt it'll be the last.
The advertisers don't want to be associated with this, so are removing their spend. Never mind it'll be replaced by other upstanding citizens.

Edited by Byker28i on Monday 20th November 13:15

[dobbo_]

RichTT said:

Not sure what's worse, MMs spin, or your gullibility tbh.

Yeah yeah I know. The nasty meany lefties forced twitter to allow vile hateful content unmoderated then forced an advertiser to pay money to advertise then forced twitter to display that advert! Shocking behaviour indeed. Poor poor Musk having to face the consequences of his own actions.

[Byker28i]

Recently - Elon Musk endorsed the claim that Jewish communities push “hatred against Whites.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/15/media/elon-musk...

September - Elon Musk Wades Deeper into Antisemitic Propaganda
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/...

Last october he associated himself with far right memes, at which point he again accused that activist groups had pressured advertisers into abandoning Twitter. That after using the old jewish insult of string pullers “Vindman is both puppet & puppeteer,”

This was a year ago and he hasn't changed - stlll continues to promote these accounts
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/elon-musk-and...


and it's seen as a positive move by the white supremacists... i.e.
Nick Fuentes, antisemitic far-righ, involved in the Charlotteville attacks: “This is the richest man in the world. And one of the top Twitter users with 160 million followers, casually drawing a link between Jewish influence and anti-white hatred,”

The official account for Gab.com, the antisemitic social media website used by the Pittsburgh synagogue gunman, celebrated that Musk was beginning to ask the," JQ," the Jewish Question.


It'll be really easy to say that Musk craves validation and enjoys the adulation from the extremists who praise him as their hero, for amplifying their beliefs, whilst he blames everyone else for the fallout.

He has no one to blame but himself.

[RichTT]

Byker28i said:

Oh my - the completely debunked pizzagate is now being pushed by RichTT again! and then accuses others of being gullible

I don't believe I've brought it up before. I was drawing the connection between MM, the owner of the pizza place and the personal reputation damage he suffered as a result of the publicity on Twitter. Suggesting that there is a more than likely motive for using MM to target Musk and Twitter. A not unreasonable conclusion for anyone of sound mind.

Oh, and the debunker is a pedophile so....

Edited by RichTT on Monday 20th November 13:34

[Byker28i]

RichTT said:

Byker28i said:

Oh my - the completely debunked pizzagate is now being pushed by RichTT again! and then accuses others of being gullible

I don't believe I've brought it up before. I was drawing the connection between MM, the owner of the pizza place and the personal reputation damage he suffered as a result of the publicity on Twitter. Suggesting that there is a more than likely motive for using MM to target Musk and Twitter. A not unreasonable conclusion for anyone of sound mind.

Oh, and the debunker is a pedophile so....

Edited by RichTT on Monday 20th November 13:34

But it's quite the debunked conspiracy theory to pick to use...
As above, Musk has multiple times over the last year plus of doing this, then blaming others...it's not a new thing and the damage to twitter is continuously done by him. His new CEO brought in to stamp this out must be really frustrated... as posted before, there's calls now for her to consider resigning

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnpaczkowski/2023/1...

[Byker28i]

Quick question - seeing as Musk has done this before several times.

Did Musk sue Center for Countering Digital Hate like he threatened to in July. Did he sue ADL like he threatened in September? Has he actually sued Media Matters yet? Edit: Ah yes he did- see below

He's facing a lawsuit claiming he defrauded former Twitter shareholders
https://www.reuters.com/legal/elon-musk-must-face-...

and another for failing to respond to a subpoena
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/05/sec-sues-to-force-...

but I can't find where he's actually sued those he claimed were causing Twitter to lose advertisers after his posts.
Ah found one - X Corp is suing the Center for Countering Digital Hate over suggestions there has been a rise in hate speech and disinformation on Twitter
https://www.ft.com/content/96a06e9a-5fc8-4a28-ae10...

Edited by Byker28i on Monday 20th November 13:59

[martynr]

Byker28i said:

Quick question - seeing as Musk has done this before several times.

Did Musk sue Center for Countering Digital Hate like he threatened to in July. Did he sue ADL like he threatened in September? Has he actually sued Media Matters yet? Edit: Ah yes he did- see below

He's facing a lawsuit claiming he defrauded former Twitter shareholders
https://www.reuters.com/legal/elon-musk-must-face-...

and another for failing to respond to a subpoena
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/05/sec-sues-to-force-...

but I can't find where he's actually sued those he claimed were causing Twitter to lose advertisers after his posts.
Ah found one - X Corp is suing the Center for Countering Digital Hate over suggestions there has been a rise in hate speech and disinformation on Twitter
https://www.ft.com/content/96a06e9a-5fc8-4a28-ae10...

Edited by Byker28i on Monday 20th November 13:59

Cannot wait the time he will be told to sell it to avoid bankruptcy for a dollar